Charlie
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« on: June 18, 2012, 01:51:08 am » |
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Diabolic Revelation  Sorcery Rare Search your library for up to X cards and put those cards into your hand. Then shuffle your library. While this is most likely junk, it has a unique effect that never appear on any other card printed before: Tutoring for multiple cards. It is about the cheapest one-card combo ever printed (9 mana to kill with Flash+Hulk, or 11 mana with Key+Vault). Any chance it would be playable?
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hvndr3d y34r h3x
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80:20 against LordHomerCat, the word's 2nd best an
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 02:22:18 am » |
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 02:26:19 am by hvndr3d y34r h3x »
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am 80:20 against LordHomerCat, the word's 2nd best and on other days the world's best vintage player. 
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xouman
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 02:34:31 am » |
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Well, probably it's the cheapest one card one turn combo. Doomsday does not win on the same turn, same as tezz. However it needs lot of mana, probably too much to be viable...
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Saya
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 02:40:33 am » |
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that's weak becuause it costs at least 6.but decks like turbotezz can run to escape from manaflood...
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goober
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 06:53:20 am » |
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Gifts tutors for multiple cards much better than this.Doomsday wins on the same turn if you have any cantrip or a Top. For this much mana just Ad Nauseum and "tutor" for half your deck.
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Team Grosse Manschaft
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brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 07:12:21 am » |
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Way too expensive but good catch that it is the first point blank "tutor for X cards" spell. Will it see play? Probably not, unless years from now there is an overpowered black-mana generator that needs a game-ending mana sink.
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"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
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gkraigher
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 07:29:59 am » |
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great for commander. that's about it.
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 08:43:55 am » |
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For this much mana just Ad Nauseum and "tutor" for half your deck. QFT great for commander. that's about it. And probably degenerate there 
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Klep
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 10:16:10 am » |
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How much mana do you have to put into this for the number of cards you get to be worth it? 7? 8? The answer is "too much."
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So I suppose I should take The Fringe back out of my sig now...
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KrauserKrauser
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DAT ART!
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 12:35:54 pm » |
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Let's try and see what mana levels would be required to get the relevant combos going.
Combo: Key Vault
This + Lotus + Mana Crypt + Key + Vault = 9 mana instant win
Combo: Tendrils
This + Lotus + Yawg Will + LED + Mana Crypt = 9 mana instant win
I don't forsee many scenarios that will have an instant win for less than 9 mana with this card.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 02:29:30 pm » |
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This card is mad expensive. However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately. Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both. It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards.
I don't think Vintage has ever seen a card like this. Grislebrand, Doomsday, Mind's Desire, Ad Nasuem, Necropotence, and similar cards are similar... but not quite the guaranteed "I win" that this one is.
I guess the next questions are, what kind of deck generates enough mana to make this worthwhile, and is this the best fit for those kinds of decks. Power Artifact + Grim Monolith, Bomberman, or other infinite mana combos can certainly use this card to win, but that deck can use more useful X spells like Stroke of Genius for the same result. Probably not at home there. Dark Ritual storm decks will probably have trouble ramping up to 9 mana in the pool quickly, and in those kind of decks the density of draw and mana is so high that drawing 7 is probably almost as good as tutoring for 2 or 3. Elves makes alot of mana, but again, once it's able to generate enough to go off, it doesn't need to tutor (and if it does, it has superior tutoring in GSZ, Chord, etc).
What about that Channel/ Lich's Mirror deck that was floating around a few years ago? I mean, the deck was kind of cumbersome, does adding this make it any better? I wish this card read like Minds Aglow instead of Prosperity, in the sense that the mana to tutor was paid as part of the effect. Then you could cheat it out with Dream Halls or Mind's Desire and go nuts.
EDIT - What about this card in Modern or Legacy, though? Those formats by and large do not have access to the other near insta-win cards that Vintage does. Legacy already uses Grislebrand to great effect. Could a deck running nothing but disruption, mana ramp, and Revelation be a thing in Modern?
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 02:44:22 pm » |
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If Tooth+Nail is seeing exactly zero play, I suspect this won't either. Still, very cool for EDH.
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 02:54:39 pm » |
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Not that I'm arguing in favor of this seeing Vintage play, but it's considerably better than Tooth and Nail here.
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Nydaeli
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 03:00:19 pm » |
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It's easy to cast when you have Liliana of the Dark Realms in play 
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boggyb
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 03:08:19 pm » |
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Crap, most powerful Type 4 card ever? Sheesh.
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Daenyth
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 03:30:42 pm » |
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Crap, most powerful Type 4 card ever? Sheesh.
Doesn't T4 generally say that X=0 for all cards with X?
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Team #olddrafts4you -- losing games since 2004
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A.-1.
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Team RST
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 03:49:40 pm » |
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Doesn't T4 generally say that X=0 for all cards with X?
No, X can be whatever you want. It makes no sense for X to be 0. Cards like Starstorm, Wargate, Dwarven Catapult, etc. would be terrible. Crap, most powerful Type 4 card ever? Sheesh.
There are plenty of equally powerful cards that are more resilient than this sorcery. Mischievous Quanar, Nezumi Graverobber, Undead Gladiator, and a few other creatures come to mind.
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Please make an attempt to use proper grammar.
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bluemage55
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 05:58:05 pm » |
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This card is mad expensive. However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately. Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both. It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards. If you have a lot of mana, there are a number of Gifts piles that win immediately (e.g. Snapcaster/Time Walk/Tinker/Yawg, Demonic/Mystical/Time Walk/Vampiric, Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Vampiric, etc.)
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 06:07:29 pm by bluemage55 »
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 06:29:16 pm » |
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This card is mad expensive. However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately. Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both. It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards. If you have a lot of mana, there are a number of Gifts piles that win immediately (e.g. Snapcaster/Time Walk/Tinker/Yawg, Demonic/Mystical/Time Walk/Vampiric, Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Vampiric, etc.) This is an excellent point; I'd forgotten about the sort of decks people smarter than me can play! I get how the first one wins, but how doe the second two tutor piles win immediately?
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boggyb
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 08:04:14 pm » |
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You can eot Gifts, then upkeep topdeck tutor for Yawg and win.
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bluemage55
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2012, 08:22:34 pm » |
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This card is mad expensive. However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately. Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both. It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards. If you have a lot of mana, there are a number of Gifts piles that win immediately (e.g. Snapcaster/Time Walk/Tinker/Yawg, Demonic/Mystical/Time Walk/Vampiric, Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Vampiric, etc.) This is an excellent point; I'd forgotten about the sort of decks people smarter than me can play! I get how the first one wins, but how doe the second two tutor piles win immediately? Woops, those only work if you're casting Gifts EOT, which isn't really immediately. Should be Demonic/Mystical/Snapcaster/Time Walk or Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Snapcaster (Tinker/Tez/Time Walk/Yawg and Key/Vault/Recoup/Yawg also comes to mind). Gifts piles also get more and more effective when you already have other cards in play/grave. Regardless, the point is that one-card kills have been around in a much more effective form (while fitting much more easily into existing shells) than this card ever could be.
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« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 08:31:02 pm by bluemage55 »
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