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Author Topic: Diabolic Revelation  (Read 4000 times)
Charlie
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« on: June 18, 2012, 01:51:08 am »

Diabolic Revelation   {X} {3} {B} {B}
Sorcery    Rare
Search your library for up to X cards and put those cards into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

While this is most likely junk, it has a unique effect that never appear on any other card printed before: Tutoring for multiple cards. It is about the cheapest one-card combo ever printed (9 mana to kill with Flash+Hulk, or 11 mana with Key+Vault). Any chance it would be playable?
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2012, 02:22:18 am »

Doomsday is the cheapest 1 card combo at  {B} {B} {B}. I'd guess tezz is number 2, and at a much more manageable  {3} {U} {U} it sees almost no play right now. Crazier things have happened but I don't see this as playable.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 02:26:19 am by hvndr3d y34r h3x » Logged

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xouman
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2012, 02:34:31 am »

Well, probably it's the cheapest one card one turn combo. Doomsday does not win on the same turn, same as tezz. However it needs lot of mana, probably too much to be viable...
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 02:40:33 am »

that's weak becuause it costs at least 6.but decks like turbotezz can run to escape from manaflood...
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 06:53:20 am »

Gifts tutors for multiple cards much better than this.Doomsday wins on the same turn if you have any cantrip or a Top.  For this much mana just Ad Nauseum and "tutor" for half your deck. 
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 07:12:21 am »

Way too expensive but good catch that it is the first point blank "tutor for X cards" spell.  Will it see play?  Probably not, unless years from now there is an overpowered black-mana generator that needs a game-ending mana sink.    
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 07:29:59 am »

great for commander.  that's about it.
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AmbivalentDuck
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 08:43:55 am »

For this much mana just Ad Nauseum and "tutor" for half your deck. 
QFT

great for commander.  that's about it.
And probably degenerate there Sad
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 10:16:10 am »

How much mana do you have to put into this for the number of cards you get to be worth it? 7? 8? The answer is "too much."
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 12:35:54 pm »

Let's try and see what mana levels would be required to get the relevant combos going.

Combo: Key Vault

This + Lotus + Mana Crypt + Key + Vault = 9 mana instant win

Combo: Tendrils

This + Lotus + Yawg Will + LED + Mana Crypt = 9 mana instant win

I don't forsee many scenarios that will have an instant win for less than 9 mana with this card.
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MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 02:29:30 pm »

This card is mad expensive.  However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately.  Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both.  It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards.

I don't think Vintage has ever seen a card like this.  Grislebrand, Doomsday, Mind's Desire, Ad Nasuem, Necropotence, and similar cards are similar... but not quite the guaranteed "I win" that this one is.  

I guess the next questions are, what kind of deck generates enough mana to make this worthwhile, and is this the best fit for those kinds of decks.  Power Artifact + Grim Monolith, Bomberman, or other infinite mana combos can certainly use this card to win, but that deck can use more useful X spells like Stroke of Genius for the same result.  Probably not at home there.  Dark Ritual storm decks will probably have trouble ramping up to 9 mana in the pool quickly, and in those kind of decks the density of draw and mana is so high that drawing 7 is probably almost as good as tutoring for 2 or 3.  Elves makes alot of mana, but again, once it's able to generate enough to go off, it doesn't need to tutor (and if it does, it has superior tutoring in GSZ, Chord, etc).  

What about that Channel/ Lich's Mirror deck that was floating around a few years ago?  I mean, the deck was kind of cumbersome, does adding this make it any better? I wish this card read like Minds Aglow instead of Prosperity, in the sense that the mana to tutor was paid as part of the effect.  Then you could cheat it out with Dream Halls or Mind's Desire and go nuts.  

EDIT - What about this card in Modern or Legacy, though?  Those formats by and large do not have access to the other near insta-win cards that Vintage does.  Legacy already uses Grislebrand to great effect.  Could a deck running nothing but disruption, mana ramp, and Revelation be a thing in Modern?
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« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 02:44:22 pm »

If Tooth+Nail is seeing exactly zero play, I suspect this won't either. Still, very cool for EDH.
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« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 02:54:39 pm »

Not that I'm arguing in favor of this seeing Vintage play, but it's considerably better than Tooth and Nail here.
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« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 03:00:19 pm »

It's easy to cast when you have Liliana of the Dark Realms in play Smile
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« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 03:08:19 pm »

Crap, most powerful Type 4 card ever? Sheesh.
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« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2012, 03:30:42 pm »

Crap, most powerful Type 4 card ever? Sheesh.

Doesn't T4 generally say that X=0 for all cards with X?
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« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 03:49:40 pm »

Doesn't T4 generally say that X=0 for all cards with X?

No, X can be whatever you want. It makes no sense for X to be 0. Cards like Starstorm, Wargate, Dwarven Catapult, etc. would be terrible.

Crap, most powerful Type 4 card ever? Sheesh.

There are plenty of equally powerful cards that are more resilient than this sorcery. Mischievous Quanar, Nezumi Graverobber, Undead Gladiator, and a few other creatures come to mind.
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« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 05:58:05 pm »

This card is mad expensive.  However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately.  Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both.  It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards.

If you have a lot of mana, there are a number of Gifts piles that win immediately (e.g. Snapcaster/Time Walk/Tinker/Yawg, Demonic/Mystical/Time Walk/Vampiric, Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Vampiric, etc.)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 06:07:29 pm by bluemage55 » Logged
MaximumCDawg
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« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 06:29:16 pm »

This card is mad expensive.  However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately.  Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both.  It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards.

If you have a lot of mana, there are a number of Gifts piles that win immediately (e.g. Snapcaster/Time Walk/Tinker/Yawg, Demonic/Mystical/Time Walk/Vampiric, Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Vampiric, etc.)

This is an excellent point; I'd forgotten about the sort of decks people smarter than me can play!

I get how the first one wins, but how doe the second two tutor piles win immediately?
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boggyb
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« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2012, 08:04:14 pm »

You can eot Gifts, then upkeep topdeck tutor for Yawg and win.
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bluemage55
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2012, 08:22:34 pm »

This card is mad expensive.  However, I can't think of a card that literally wins on the spot immediately.  Assuming an arbitrarily large amount of mana, this gets you win conditions, disruption to protect your win condition, and mana to use them both.  It's like Grislebrand in that regard, but better, since it gets you exactly what you need and not 7 random cards.

If you have a lot of mana, there are a number of Gifts piles that win immediately (e.g. Snapcaster/Time Walk/Tinker/Yawg, Demonic/Mystical/Time Walk/Vampiric, Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Vampiric, etc.)

This is an excellent point; I'd forgotten about the sort of decks people smarter than me can play!

I get how the first one wins, but how doe the second two tutor piles win immediately?

Woops, those only work if you're casting Gifts EOT, which isn't really immediately.  Should be Demonic/Mystical/Snapcaster/Time Walk or Ancestral/Demonic/Mystical/Snapcaster (Tinker/Tez/Time Walk/Yawg and Key/Vault/Recoup/Yawg also comes to mind).  Gifts piles also get more and more effective when you already have other cards in play/grave.

Regardless, the point is that one-card kills have been around in a much more effective form (while fitting much more easily into existing shells) than this card ever could be.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 08:31:02 pm by bluemage55 » Logged
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