5-2-1 at Champs, how it almost went right

[Samoht]

When first contemplating what I should play this year at Vintage Champs, two things became apparent to me. I should play something with Blue in it to suit my style/sklills and that I should play something that was unfair. At the beginning of this year I was running a UGbr Remora Gush list in the North East Vintage Series, and doing very well with it. Unfortunately, it was a very fair deck, that was looking to interact and play games with opponents. I truly feel as Vintage has shifted towards oppressive strategies that are intended to either prevent, ignore, or deny the resolution of anything meaningful. As such, I started looking into other strategies. Rich Shay unveiled his Oath/Tendrils creation to us, and I started off on that path.

Rich's deck was chock full of spells that ended games. In essence, every time I cast a spell I was putting my opponent to the test. "Do you have it?" or "...again?" became so easy to do when looking at a hand laden with bombs that it felt very unfair. I did very well on the list but felt as if there was a consistency issue. With no real draw engine, getting behind was a death knell. Often I would have hands like Ritual Ritual Oath or Orchard Orchard Necropotence/Desire. Additionally, the Shop matches were very difficult to win via Tendrils, and as such we became a very bad Oath list against them. I tooled around with additional Show and Tells and more Nature's Claim/Mental Misstep, but eventually decided that I was doing a lot of work to just become an Oath deck fighting over Cages anyway.

At that point I began to think of what I needed to do to close games on Oath. If I trimmed out the Storm package, I would free up a bunch of slots. I could add more permission, a draw engine, and even Vault/Key as a back up win condition. I started testing out the deck, and was still concerned. Vault/Key was just clunky and without Tinker more difficult to assemble than I liked. I thought about it, and realized I didn't need ALL of the turns, but simply just 1-3 turns. My eureka moment arrived, and Temporal Mastery and Noxious Revival made the list. After testing some more I was ecstatic with the changes. Instead of dead artifacts I had live cards in my hand that worked without each other, but were amazing in conjunction. Obviously the plan is to Revival after Oathing over Mastery, not after resolution. Time Walk -> Revival is also fine with Griselbrand in play.

Here is my list:
4 Force of Will
4 Oath of Druids
4 Gush
1 Show and Tell
1 Brainstorm
1 Memory’s Journey
1 Time Walk
1 Flusterstorm
1 Nature’s Claim
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Fastbond
2 Griselbrand
1 Misdirection
1 Preordain
1 Temporal Mastery
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Noxious Revival
2 Mana Drain
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Mana Crypt
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Black Lotus
2 Island
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal

SB:
2 Show and Tell
3 Nature’s Claim
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Duress
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus


R1: Forino Sui Black - Marc Savage
G1: Mark takes apart my hand and lays a Dark Confidant. I find an Oath of Druids, which prompts Mark to Cabal Therapy flashback on me. He sees the way is clear and lands Necropotence. He then tells me he is going to his end step and paying 5 life to Necro. I ask him to repeat his actions, and he does verbatim. After setting the cards aside he starts to try and draw them, at which point I stop him and call over a judge. I explain what was said and Marc agrees with me somewhat dishearteningly. The ruling is that he won't get the cards from his activation until his next end step. I could have easily let Mark put a card in his hand and he would have received a game loss for drawing additional cards, but that to me would have been very scummy. I confirmed his wording and held him to it, but did not try to take further advantage of the situation. I cast Mystical for Ancestral to try and put something together with my free Time Walk, but it didn't come. Marc fired a few verbal shots at me, but he was a bit flummoxed by what happened so I let it pass without getting riled up. After his Necro won him the game, he immediately apologized for being unclear with his intentions and for his statements towards me. I accepted it and we went to game 2.

G2: I board in Relic of Progenitus, Mindbreak Trap, and 2 Duress. I know he isn't on Cage because of Yawgmoth's Will and I just need to stop his Will to prevent his win. Looking back on it, I probably should have boarded in the Crypts and Leylines as well. His deck is extremely reliant on Will, and I tried to play Combo with minor control elements. I should have just gone all in on the Control aspect of my deck. My opener is very sketchy, but has Sapphire and Ancestral along with Force Blue Card and Oath. Needless to say even with 3 additional cards land don't come, and this game is also very protracted. He ends up Duress'ing out my Oath and Surgically Extracting it, and then Sadistic Sacrement'ing out 2 Jaces and a Griselbrand, leaving me with only 1 win condition. Despite this, my Relic keeps him in check and he Demonic Consultations over a second copy of Tendrils of Agony, which in turn gets me all of the time I need. I also have the Mindbreak Trap for his THIRD copy of ToA. He lets the clock dwindle down before conceding to his own Necrolock with 2 cards in Library when he remembers I still have Claim and Griselbrand in the deck. I thank him for conceding and we go to game 3.

G3: Time is called and I just stock up on a hand with protection and take the draw. I could have tried to be aggressive and mulligan into Mox Oath Orchard, but realistically he runs 8+ discard spells post board and was on the play. He could draw the nuts and kill me and I would rather have all the counters than just hope to not get discard played on me. Marc and I part ways amicably, and end up chatting the rest of the Con. He was a good guy the whole way through, but I had to respect the event we were in and call the judge in game 1.

R2: Matt Elias on UBrg Standstill
Matt is a local stalwart of top 8's and I was lamenting having to play him, especially so early and in this awkward bracket.
G1: I land an early Oath of Druids with Force back up, and then Drain his EE on 2 and Misdirect his Drain back to his EE to ensure it won't resolve. It's nice to have great hands against great players.
G2: Boarding in Mindbreak Trap, Show and Tell, Nature's Claim, and Duress. Matt has t1 Cage. I kept Jet Emerald Lotus with DT Oath and Show and Tell. I play the Moxes and Oath to bait Mindbreak Trap. Matt obliges fearing a Nature's Claim and an Orchard from my hand. I pass and then DT for Griselbrand and Show him to Matt.

R3: Dredge
G1: He mulligans to 1, I win via Griselbrand and Jace. Several consecutive turns are taken.
G2: Board in the Leylines, Crypts, and Relic. I mulligan to 6 with Ancestral and Lotus, he leads with Unmask and then I see no hate and lose shortly thereafter.
G3: He has Unmask again, but I respond with Vampiric Tutor -> Relic of Progenitus. The game drags a bit and he keeps laying City of Brass/Petrified Field/Undiscovered Paradise. He eventually starts casting creatures, namely Bloodghast and Stinkweed Imp. I find an Oath of Druids and pass the turn. He draws, then casts Nature's Claim. He puts it down on the table, on top of the Relic of Progenitus. I think for a second and go to tap a land to pop the Relic, to draw the card more than anything else. At that point, he announces that his target was Oath of Druids. Now, was I surprised that he put the card on the Relic? Certainly. But he did have a 5 card hand and he easily could have drawn the Bazaar to go nuts with. I was a little concerned he was trying to game me into popping the Relic so he would get the best of both worlds. As such, I called over a Judge to clarify the matter. The judge listened to both of us, and ruled that since he waited until I made an action to announce a target other than what his card was placed on(which the Judge said was an accepted shortcut for targeting), his target of Relic of Progenitus would hold. At which point I reiterated that I was popping the Relic. My opponent then drew a card, mainly because he was flustered by the situation and made an honest mistake. Unfortunately the Judge was right there and immediately stepped in and gave him a game loss. I wished my opponent well and left, not wanting to salt his wounds or make it any worse. If you ever see this, please know that I wasn't trying to rules lawyer you or cheat you out of the win. I was merely protecting myself from what was a very awkward game state and situation.

R4: Oath Mirror
G1: He leads out with Mox Trop Oath. I Mystical for Demonic in response, and then on my turn Demonic for Orchard. He let the tutors go with the intention of Forcing the card I choose. If you ever decide to play Oath, don't run it out blind without Orchard because this can and will happen to you. Also, if someone goes Mystical -> Demonic, you should probably counter the Demonic. Several Time Walks occur.
G2: He boarded in Grafdigger's Cage, but I boarded out my Oath's anyway for Show and Tell and I ended up taking it down after Duress showed me the way was clear. Will gets me two extra turns. I'm not really certain why he was on Cage in the Oath deck, but I wished him well and moved on.

R5: Doomsday Maniac
G1: We have a long game, and I put him on DD very early. Then we get into a counter war and he pitches Trygon Predator to FoW and I begin to question my read. I start thinking he is on DeMars BUG control list and slightly alter my play. Of course, a few turns later Ritual -> DD happens and he is ready to win.
G2: I board in Duress and Mindbreak Trap and Show and Tell. I run to the bathroom while the Judge watches my things, and we get an extension. I have Oath and Orchard with FoW back up, and just like that we're going to G3 after I Revival a Temporal Mastery.
G3: He leads Petal Fetch go. I fetch and Duress, he Missteps, I FoW. He tanks, then FoW's back with Land and DD in hand. I pass, and then he cast's DD on me. In my upkeep I Vamp for Ancestral, lay a land and pass. He draws, casts Ancestral, and looks at me. I tank and then say OK. I then rethink my position and ask if I can have priority back before he draws. He thinks for a second and then lets me have it. I thank him for his courtesy(which he probably shouldn't have extended) and then I Ancestral him and he concedes. I asked what his top 3 cards were at that point, and he did have a FoW there, but I had one as well. I had changed my mind when I thought his pile was Misstep Force Gush, but it was Misstep Force Maniac, with Will on bottom as opposed to Manaic. I don't think he realized he could have countered his own Ancestral after drawing the three from mine, but it was irrelevant based on the pile he made and my hand.

R6: Merfolk (Slaughter Smurfs!)
G1: He has double force for my Oath of Druids, and then draws Lords and destroys me.
G2: Bring in Nature's Claim and Show and Tell. I have Oath on T1, and he plays Cursecatcher. I know he also has singleton Mox and Cage at that point, and when he Forces my Force I know I need to find a Claim quick. Unfortunately that doesn't happen and he finds a few Lords to speed up the clock.

R7: Nick Coss on Espresso Stax
Another local friend, Nick is actually our TO. We jest back and forth and promise to have a good match.
G1: Nick has a strong hand after winning the die roll and prisons me out.
G2: I bring in Claim and Show and Tell. Nick has an early cage and the game goes forever despite my early Jace(fatesealing because of Orchard spirits). I spike Oath and drop it down. Nick passes back with a few Spirits and I trigger Oath, drop in Griselbrand and draw a card. Nick rearranges his board and finds the cage that was there and we call over a judge. We had both blanked on the card being in play and forgot about it. Mucking everything up was that I drew a card for my turn after putting in Griselbrand. The head judge ruled that 1 random card would go back on my library and that I would draw Griselbrand. this was fixed per her ruling and then I used my Jace to brainstorm. I found Show and Tell and took down the game despite his Tangle Wire. I force his Metamorph and that was the final nail in the proverbial coffin. Very sloppy on both of our parts to forget about the cage.
G3: Nick keeps a light land hand with all of the Grafdigger's Cages. Like, really all of them. I then Vamp for Show and Tell and Griselbrand gets there before Nick gets anything together. We keep playing the game well after Nick is dead because we're just having a good time.

R8: Mike on UWb Bomberman
G1: Despite landing Ancestral and Jace and a Gush, I lose a long game of attrition because the cards that I draw every time are Lands, Fetches, or Moxes. I will concede that being on 23 mana sources is a bit high, but I drew an extra 7 cards in this long game. Mike puts together the combo and that was that.
G2: I bring in Claim, Show and Tell, Relic, and Duress. Mike has the opener of Library of Alexandria, but I manage to dwindle his hand down by getting him to counter some spells. He misses a Library trigger as well and then has to FoW after Draining. With LoA offline, I re-establish control with Oath and take the game down with Walk, Revival, Will, Walk, Revival -> Mastery.
G3: Mike leads with a Bob on t2, but I have t2 Jace. I decide to pseudo walk him in the hopes that I will draw a counter for the t4 replay. He obliges, I don't land a counter and bounce again. He lays in 2 Bobs this time and I see the writing on the wall if I don't draw Oath. But, alas it was there! He then lands a real Walk and then Cage. I also lose 5 Mana Crypt rolls and die to it. Without Claim in my hand, the game is over. I congratulate Mark on winning the Match and making it into top 8.

I think the Lotus Petal might have been greedy, but I'm not really sure what I should replace it with. I like the Gush engine, but did have Island/Orchard w/ Gush a little too often for my liking. Fastbond also competes with Griselbrand for my life total, and I'm not really happy about that either. I'm not really sure what else I can put in to get advantage though, so for now Fastbond + Gush it is. Mastery and Revival were great for me all day. I was very happy with the deck and its performance.

Special thanks to Rich for his help and thoughts. Additionally, I would like to thank my main testing partners, Raffaele Forino, Nick Detwiler, Vincent Forino, and Mike Lupo for putting in the time and effort to really learn the nuts and bolts of the deck and its match ups. Rob Edwards and Shawn Griffiths, thanks for being there to bounce ideas off and to stop me from playing High Tide in Vintage. Nick Coss and Nick Detwiler do so much to keep the North East Vintage scene going, their contributions should not be overlooked or undervalued. To all of my opponents in the event itself and in the weeks leading up to it, I thank you as well. Hopefully the journey will end in a place better than 21st next year. So close, but yet so far.

[chrispikula]

So many judge calls! 

[BC]

G3: He has Unmask again, but I respond with Vampiric Tutor -> Relic of Progenitus. The game drags a bit and he keeps laying City of Brass/Petrified Field/Undiscovered Paradise. He eventually starts casting creatures, namely Bloodghast and Stinkweed Imp. I find an Oath of Druids and pass the turn. He draws, then casts Nature's Claim. He puts it down on the table, on top of the Relic of Progenitus. I think for a second and go to tap a land to pop the Relic, to draw the card more than anything else. At that point, he announces that his target was Oath of Druids. Now, was I surprised that he put the card on the Relic? Certainly. But he did have a 5 card hand and he easily could have drawn the Bazaar to go nuts with. I was a little concerned he was trying to game me into popping the Relic so he would get the best of both worlds. As such, I called over a Judge to clarify the matter. The judge listened to both of us, and ruled that since he waited until I made an action to announce a target other than what his card was placed on(which the Judge said was an accepted shortcut for targeting), his target of Relic of Progenitus would hold. At which point I reiterated that I was popping the Relic. My opponent then drew a card, mainly because he was flustered by the situation and made an honest mistake. Unfortunately the Judge was right there and immediately stepped in and gave him a game loss. I wished my opponent well and left, not wanting to salt his wounds or make it any worse. If you ever see this, please know that I wasn't trying to rules lawyer you or cheat you out of the win. I was merely protecting myself from what was a very awkward game state and situation.

I heard the other side of this story from James King (the Dredge player).  It sounded very shady.

[mikekilljoy]

G3: He has Unmask again, but I respond with Vampiric Tutor -> Relic of Progenitus. The game drags a bit and he keeps laying City of Brass/Petrified Field/Undiscovered Paradise. He eventually starts casting creatures, namely Bloodghast and Stinkweed Imp. I find an Oath of Druids and pass the turn. He draws, then casts Nature's Claim. He puts it down on the table, on top of the Relic of Progenitus. I think for a second and go to tap a land to pop the Relic, to draw the card more than anything else. At that point, he announces that his target was Oath of Druids. Now, was I surprised that he put the card on the Relic? Certainly. But he did have a 5 card hand and he easily could have drawn the Bazaar to go nuts with. I was a little concerned he was trying to game me into popping the Relic so he would get the best of both worlds. As such, I called over a Judge to clarify the matter. The judge listened to both of us, and ruled that since he waited until I made an action to announce a target other than what his card was placed on(which the Judge said was an accepted shortcut for targeting), his target of Relic of Progenitus would hold. At which point I reiterated that I was popping the Relic. My opponent then drew a card, mainly because he was flustered by the situation and made an honest mistake. Unfortunately the Judge was right there and immediately stepped in and gave him a game loss. I wished my opponent well and left, not wanting to salt his wounds or make it any worse. If you ever see this, please know that I wasn't trying to rules lawyer you or cheat you out of the win. I was merely protecting myself from what was a very awkward game state and situation.

I heard the other side of this story from James King (the Dredge player).  It sounded very shady.

How is it shady? You have to announce a target before anyhting can happen.

Either way, great write up Tom, as always.

[rpf5029]

G3: He has Unmask again, but I respond with Vampiric Tutor -> Relic of Progenitus. The game drags a bit and he keeps laying City of Brass/Petrified Field/Undiscovered Paradise. He eventually starts casting creatures, namely Bloodghast and Stinkweed Imp. I find an Oath of Druids and pass the turn. He draws, then casts Nature's Claim. He puts it down on the table, on top of the Relic of Progenitus. I think for a second and go to tap a land to pop the Relic, to draw the card more than anything else. At that point, he announces that his target was Oath of Druids. Now, was I surprised that he put the card on the Relic? Certainly. But he did have a 5 card hand and he easily could have drawn the Bazaar to go nuts with. I was a little concerned he was trying to game me into popping the Relic so he would get the best of both worlds. As such, I called over a Judge to clarify the matter. The judge listened to both of us, and ruled that since he waited until I made an action to announce a target other than what his card was placed on(which the Judge said was an accepted shortcut for targeting), his target of Relic of Progenitus would hold. At which point I reiterated that I was popping the Relic. My opponent then drew a card, mainly because he was flustered by the situation and made an honest mistake. Unfortunately the Judge was right there and immediately stepped in and gave him a game loss. I wished my opponent well and left, not wanting to salt his wounds or make it any worse. If you ever see this, please know that I wasn't trying to rules lawyer you or cheat you out of the win. I was merely protecting myself from what was a very awkward game state and situation.

I heard the other side of this story from James King (the Dredge player).  It sounded very shady.

How is it shady? You have to announce a target before anyhting can happen.

Either way, great write up Tom, as always.

Just out of curiosity, Samoht, did you tap your land and announce the activation of the Relic before he switched targets? 

[BC]

Correct.  You have to announce a target before anything can happen.  James played the Nature's Claim, and was tapping mana, but had not announced his target, when (according to James) Samoht responded by activating his Relic.  At this point James said "I'm targeting Oath", then a judge was called.  In my opinion the judge made the wrong call.  The fact that James was forced to target something with Nature's Claim that he had no intention of targeting when he played the card is what seems very shady to me.

EDIT:  Also, "on top of Relic" may be a bit misleading.  I think "touching Relic" is a more accurate way of saying it.  But again, I didn't see what happened, I only heard second hand.

[Samoht]

Correct.  You have to announce a target before anything can happen.  James played the Nature's Claim, and was tapping mana, but had not announced his target, when (according to James) Samoht responded by activating his Relic.  At this point James said "I'm targeting Oath", then a judge was called.  In my opinion the judge made the wrong call.  The fact that James was forced to target something with Nature's Claim that he had no intention of targeting when he played the card is what seems very shady to me.

EDIT:  Also, "on top of Relic" may be a bit misleading.  I think "touching Relic" is a more accurate way of saying it.  But again, I didn't see what happened, I only heard second hand.

It was more than just touching my Relic, but I will concede that it was less than 50% on the card. Again, when James played the card, he placed it on the table, with a significant portion covering my Relic, and then took his hand off his card and looked at me. I then tapped my land and went to use the Relic, which was when he then announced a different target than what his placement of the Claim had implied. When I've played competitive magic, it has been understood that if you cast a spell and then place it on a legal target, you have short-cutted your announcement of the target. As I said before, my concern was that he was trying to game me into popping my Relic AND losing my Oath of Druids, which is why I called the judge. He easily could have just drawn a Bazaar and intended to go off with Dread Return and Zealot to kill me on the spot, while protecting himself from Force of Will by getting the 2 for 1. I don't know James at all, so I was protecting myself. I had no way of knowing what his intentions were, and to be honest Blaine I thought it was a little shady on his part to play his card and actions in such a way. I never got to find out what was going to happen afterwards because he drew the card off the Relic and was disqualified, and I was not about to try and talk it through with him as he was very put out.

Edit: Also, his placement of the card and my reaction happened in a matter of seconds, which I don't think I've made clear. It was just very awkward, which is why I called for the judge.

[Prospero]

Guys, I like you both, so let's agree to disagree on what happened here and both drop this topic.

[Samoht]

Guys, I like you both, so let's agree to disagree on what happened here and both drop this topic.

Nick, our discussion is healthy, not toxic. Blaine was simply providing another side of the coin, which I welcome. The light of honesty and truth will trump any perceived shady wrongdoings. I don't understand why this discussion warranted moderation. Neither of us got personal.

[Prospero]

Guys, I like you both, so let's agree to disagree on what happened here and both drop this topic.

Nick, our discussion is healthy, not toxic. Blaine was simply providing another side of the coin, which I welcome. The light of honesty and truth will trump any perceived shady wrongdoings. I don't understand why this discussion warranted moderation. Neither of us got personal.

Which is why it was blue text and not red.

It's a he said/he said path to tread down that detracts from what matters here; the report that you put time in to create.  There's no sanction given over blue text, it's just me trying to keep everyone on point here.  There was a judge call, the judge ruled one way, it's over.  It's important to note that it happened, and I'm glad that you did, and that Blaine discussed the other end of it, but I don't want to see this become anything other than a discussion about a tournament report/performance.

[BC]

I'm happy to let it drop.  I'll just say that I talked to James about it later in the day (~round 7) and he was still upset about it.  If I was in his position, I would probably be upset about it too.  I didn't mean to take away from on-topic discussion.

[Prospero]

I'm happy to let it drop.  I'll just say that I talked to James about it later in the day (~round 7) and he was still upset about it.  If I was in his position, I would probably be upset about it too.  I didn't mean to take away from on-topic discussion.

Blaine, you're a good man and I value your opinion.  To reiterate, there is no sanction over blue text, and I want nothing more than to guide the discussion back on course. 

[Samoht]

I will also drop it. If you wish to continue the discussion via PM or put me in touch with James to try and clear the air, I'm willing to take that path.

[BC]

I will also drop it. If you wish to continue the discussion via PM or put me in touch with James to try and clear the air, I'm willing to take that path.

James is a member on this site (Suicideking), so I'm sure he'll reach out to you if he wants to.  I personally think the issue has been discussed enough.

[Suicideking]

I'll just say I think it was a terrible judge call.  That being said I fucked up and didn't appeal the ruling like I should have.  After the round ended, I talked to the judge again, and we talked about it with the head judge who said it was the wrong ruling.  To defend the head judge that judge was working sealed events the next round.

Tom had zero cards in hand, and only an island untapped to activate the relic.  I had no cards in my graveyard and there were zero reasons for me to be angling him for information.  I had been casting creatures and had Tom to 10 life through creature beats.  The people around the table watching told me I got screwed.  I had already got rid of some of his oaths with a cabal therapy earlier so his outs to beat me, while he ws at 10 life, with three lands, and zero cards in hand were quite limited. I had a bloodghast and stinkweed imp in play and golgari thug in had to cast.  In my opinion it was clearly my opponent fishing for a game win.

Even if my card touched the relic which was directly adjacent to the relic I announced my intended target.  Nothing had advanced in terms of the game and seeing as he had no cards in hand I had no reason to provoke a reaction.  Really what advantage would I have gained from knowing that if I targeted relic, he would use his one untapped land to pop it.  

I've played magic for a long time and I've never heard anyone accuse me of playing deceptively and I'd like it to stay that way.  But it happened and I'm over it.  I still finished 6-2 and took 12th place.  If Tom feels comfortable winning games like that, cool.  I've won a lot of power and I never even think to make those judge calls.  

I'd also like to point out that I've probably played more matches with oath then anyone on these boards, so I'm familiar enough with the deck to know to destroy the oaths.

One more thing.

"As I said before, my concern was that he was trying to game me into popping my Relic AND losing my Oath of Druids, which is why I called the judge. He easily could have just drawn a Bazaar and intended to go off with Dread Return and Zealot to kill me on the spot, while protecting himself from Force of Will by getting the 2 for 1. I don't know James at all, so I was protecting myself."

If i had drawn bazaar and had a spell to destroy your relic, wouldn't I want to play the bazaar so I could activate on my upkeep?  This lets me try to get a dredge out of my draw step.

[Samoht]

I'll just say I think it was a terrible judge call.  That being said I fucked up and didn't appeal the ruling like I should have.  After the round ended, I talked to the judge again, and we talked about it with the head judge who said it was the wrong ruling.  To defend the head judge that judge was working sealed events the next round.

Tom had zero cards in hand, and only an island untapped to activate the relic.  I had no cards in my graveyard and there were zero reasons for me to be angling him for information.  I had been casting creatures and had Tom to 10 life through creature beats.  The people around the table watching told me I got screwed.  I had already got rid of some of his oaths with a cabal therapy earlier so his outs to beat me, while he ws at 10 life, with three lands, and zero cards in hand were quite limited. I had a bloodghast and stinkweed imp in play and golgari thug in had to cast.  In my opinion it was clearly my opponent fishing for a game win.

Even if my card touched the relic which was directly adjacent to the relic I announced my intended target.  Nothing had advanced in terms of the game and seeing as he had no cards in hand I had no reason to provoke a reaction.  Really what advantage would I have gained from knowing that if I targeted relic, he would use his one untapped land to pop it.  

I've played magic for a long time and I've never heard anyone accuse me of playing deceptively and I'd like it to stay that way.  But it happened and I'm over it.  I still finished 6-2 and took 12th place.  If Tom feels comfortable winning games like that, cool.  I've won a lot of power and I never even think to make those judge calls.  

I'd also like to point out that I've probably played more matches with oath then anyone on these boards, so I'm familiar enough with the deck to know to destroy the oaths.

One more thing.

"As I said before, my concern was that he was trying to game me into popping my Relic AND losing my Oath of Druids, which is why I called the judge. He easily could have just drawn a Bazaar and intended to go off with Dread Return and Zealot to kill me on the spot, while protecting himself from Force of Will by getting the 2 for 1. I don't know James at all, so I was protecting myself."

If i had drawn bazaar and had a spell to destroy your relic, wouldn't I want to play the bazaar so I could activate on my upkeep?  This lets me try to get a dredge out of my draw step.

James,

I sent you a PM with the intention of discussing this, but that was all but ignored.

To start, your presentation of the board state is wrong. I had 2 cards in hand, and 2 lands open. I used Mox's to drop the Oath. You had removed 1 Oath via discard, not some. It was your turn when you cast the Claim. As such, you wouldn't have lead Bazaar if you were intending to activate it and pitch Bridge Zealot Return, cast a third creature(Thug) and kill me on the spot. You easily could have put that combination of cards together considering the length of the game, and it would be faster to kill me that way than through Claiming the Oath. However, that line of play is cold to a counter on Dread return because I untap and activate Oath->Griselbrand. Additionally, I can't assume that my opponent will make optimal plays in given board states, people make mistakes.

Again, the Claim was more than simply touching the Relic, which was at least one full card width away from the Oath. You placed the card on my mat with a significant portion on the Relic, then pulled back to your side and didn't say anything before I announced that I was using it. I conceded that time frame wasn't long at all, and even made sure that the judge in question was aware of that point. I didn't walk the judge into a ruling, I simply presented him with the same facts I was. I told him the story as I saw it unfold, he made the decision. You should definitely have appealed.

As far as announcing a target, I've been around for awhile, and if you place a card on a legal target that is accepted as a shortcut for targeting. If the Claim was on my Land or a Creature I wouldn't have said a word about what happened. However, based on the game state and the decks in question it was somewhat ambiguous to put it on the Relic without announcing the target beforehand. It wasn't as if you said Claim and I immediately retorted by saying I'll use it. You said Claim, took the card from your hand, reached across the table, and put it down with a significant portion on my Relic, then reached back to your side. I had enough time to assess the situation, tap my Island in play, and pick up my Relic to use it before you said the target was Oath. Again, I had two cards in hand plus the obvious third card from the Relic, so getting me to preemptively pop it in the hopes that I draw FoW/Blue Card for it to save the Oath so you can then Return Zealot w/ Bridge in yard would win you a game on the spot that was still in the air. I also would have had another blue source open to cast a card like Flusterstorm or Spell Pierce, seeing as I had two lands and not one open for use.

I'm sorry if you're feeling accused of anything, but I don't know you at all. You sat down across from me and I met you for the first time. You had an Oath playmat and some piercings. That's not enough for me to judge anything about you. I extended you courtesy and camaraderie up until that point in the match, when things were presented to me in a very awkward fashion. At that point I protected myself and called a judge. How am I to know if you aren't the next Mike Long or Alex Bertoncini? I'm sorry you went on tilt and forgot to appeal and then drew an extra card. That wasn't the intention of the call.

[Prospero]

Now that both sides have discussed this, it's time to drop this.  No resolution is possible that will leave both of you happy with how this panned out and discussing it here is just liable to start a flame-war.  I don't want to see that.  If you guys feel like discussing this further, please do so via PM.

[Jblaze4lif]

The deck looks great nice work. Is sol ring in that list I did not see it. I think I like Sol ring over Mana Crypt. Maybe dropping the lotus petal and squeezing in another mana drain and jace? 

I'm going to try a similiar list but maybe run more drain and Jace.

[Samoht]

The deck looks great nice work. Is sol ring in that list I did not see it. I think I like Sol ring over Mana Crypt. Maybe dropping the lotus petal and squeezing in another mana drain and jace? 

I'm going to try a similiar list but maybe run more drain and Jace.

Sol Ring was left out. I was maximizing as many turn 1 Oath of Druids as possible. Sol Ring does not enable that. I generally include Sol Ring over both Lotus Petal and Mana Crypt in my lists, but 0>1 where Oath is concerned. I never felt like I needed a third Jace, but it could be right. I'm also never against Mana Drain when all of your lands cast it.