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Author Topic: Power in Revised? Dual Lands in Fourth Edition?  (Read 6292 times)
Greg
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« on: January 10, 2013, 03:38:20 pm »

I'm sure I'm not the only person on this forum that sometimes wonders "what if?" when thinking about the world and history of Magic. Smile

"What if I had bought thirty sets of power nine in 1993?"
"What if I stumbled onto an unopened box of Beta or Summer Magic?"
"What if, in 2013, Chaos Orb was still a part of the Vintage metagame?"
"What if there was never a Dredge mechanic created?"
"What if Birds of Paradise was never 'accidentally' created by Mark Poole?"
"What if Ancestral Recall was printed as a common, as it was originally intended?"
"What if Wizards had begun printing foil cards in sets earlier than Urza's Legacy?"
"What if Time Vault was never printed?"
"Similarly, what if Voltaic Key was never printed but Time Vault still existed?"


If you've known me for quite some time, then it's possible that I've brought up my two favorite "what ifs"  to you before. They both regard the printings of the quintessential "power" cards of the game's history.

"What if the power nine had made it into the Revised printing?"

"What if the dual lands had made it into the Fourth Edition printing?"


I often wonder how close these two sets of cards were to actually being included in just one more printing before they were ultimately cut from reproduction. Was their demise an eleventh hour decision, or was it something mulled over long before the next set came out?

Unlimited was the last set to feature the power nine, alongside other nominal cards that got cut such as Berserk and Sinkhole. The dual lands hung around for one more set, alongside Sol Ring, Regrowth, and Demonic Tutor, but were cut before Fourth Edition. Yet, for some reason, Mana Vault, Mind Twist, and Balance made it all the way into Fourth Edition's print run.

The power nine and Time Vault were only printed in Alpha, Beta, and Unlimited. If they had continued on for one more printing, we would currently have a humongous amount of Revised power. We would also have foreign, black-bordered German, French, and Italian power. Revised was the first core set to see European printings.

The dual lands were printed in Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Revised, German, French, Italian, and Summer Magic. If they had continued on for one more printing, we would currently have a humongous supply of Fourth Edition dual lands. We would also have Japanese, Korean, and Chinese dual lands. Can you imagine that? A foreign, black-bordered Korean Underground Sea? Fourth Edition was the first core set to see Asian printings.

The thought that I often ponder is... which of those two scenarios would I prefer? I personally would love to see the power nine featured as a part of the crisp printing run of the black-bordered European sets. Power would be much more plentiful. Dual lands are tough for many players to attain, but it's a realistic goal that is usually met with some time. Power can often be considered by many Magic players as something they will "never" have. A playset of Tundras can be cheaper than one Mox.

I also often ponder, outside of what I would personally prefer, is which of those two scenarios would be better for the Magic community as a whole? The dual lands would be unbelievably accessible if they had one more print run in Fourth Edition. Those lands are a big part of many formats. However, I also imagine that Vintage would be much more accessible as a whole if Revised boosters included some washed out printings of power. Would Vintage be more popular and more prominent if power was a part of Revised's 500,000,000(!) card print run? (Unlimited had a print run of 40,000,000.)

How would Magic be different with either of these scenarios? How would the prominence or popularity of certain formats change? Which of the two scenarios would you have personally preferred? How would either of these additional printings affect the pricing of these cards? What would the market look like? I'm interested to hear the thoughts of the people that frequent this forum.
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Smmenen
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 07:34:20 pm »

I don't think there is any doubt that, if Power Nine had been printed in Revised, Vintage would be a more popular format. 

Although there may have been 50 million cards printed from revised (and I'm assuming your number is accurate), there are only a couple hundred thousands of each rare.  Still, this would be a manifold increase of several magnitudes over the existing print run on power. 

That said, there would still be some severe problems: namely the ratio of power nine to Mishra's Workshop, LIbrary and Bazaar of Baghdad, which are the rarest cards in Vintage. 
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tribet
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 09:12:20 pm »

A shame Collector's Editions were not Legal. That would have been like 14000 sets * 363 cards = 5 million cards. Not much compared to 40 million UL cards but the ratio Power Cards vs Crap Cards is so much higher.

Reserved list or whatever, I believe they will someday reprint Power, Duals,... in one form or the other. I don't think it is because they will suddenly decide to care about players or Eternal. I just think that when you are running a business, there is no rational reason to not exploit the goldmine you're seating on.
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Killane
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 01:34:17 pm »

A shame Collector's Editions were not Legal. That would have been like 14000 sets * 363 cards = 5 million cards. Not much compared to 40 million UL cards but the ratio Power Cards vs Crap Cards is so much higher.

Reserved list or whatever, I believe they will someday reprint Power, Duals,... in one form or the other. I don't think it is because they will suddenly decide to care about players or Eternal. I just think that when you are running a business, there is no rational reason to not exploit the goldmine you're seating on.

I think they should make CE legal. The different colored backs are no longer an issue thanks to the DCI policies regarding double-faced cards. There's really no reason CE shouldn't be legal now.
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 01:48:22 pm »

A shame Collector's Editions were not Legal. That would have been like 14000 sets * 363 cards = 5 million cards. Not much compared to 40 million UL cards but the ratio Power Cards vs Crap Cards is so much higher.

Reserved list or whatever, I believe they will someday reprint Power, Duals,... in one form or the other. I don't think it is because they will suddenly decide to care about players or Eternal. I just think that when you are running a business, there is no rational reason to not exploit the goldmine you're seating on.

I think they should make CE legal. The different colored backs are no longer an issue thanks to the DCI policies regarding double-faced cards. There's really no reason CE shouldn't be legal now.

You mean aside from the square corners?
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 02:11:27 pm »

A shame Collector's Editions were not Legal. That would have been like 14000 sets * 363 cards = 5 million cards. Not much compared to 40 million UL cards but the ratio Power Cards vs Crap Cards is so much higher.

Reserved list or whatever, I believe they will someday reprint Power, Duals,... in one form or the other. I don't think it is because they will suddenly decide to care about players or Eternal. I just think that when you are running a business, there is no rational reason to not exploit the goldmine you're seating on.

I think they should make CE legal. The different colored backs are no longer an issue thanks to the DCI policies regarding double-faced cards. There's really no reason CE shouldn't be legal now.

You mean aside from the square corners?

The Alpha print run has different corners and it's legal?
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 02:34:19 pm »

A shame Collector's Editions were not Legal. That would have been like 14000 sets * 363 cards = 5 million cards. Not much compared to 40 million UL cards but the ratio Power Cards vs Crap Cards is so much higher.

Reserved list or whatever, I believe they will someday reprint Power, Duals,... in one form or the other. I don't think it is because they will suddenly decide to care about players or Eternal. I just think that when you are running a business, there is no rational reason to not exploit the goldmine you're seating on.

I think they should make CE legal. The different colored backs are no longer an issue thanks to the DCI policies regarding double-faced cards. There's really no reason CE shouldn't be legal now.

You mean aside from the square corners?

The Alpha print run has different corners and it's legal?

Exactly
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Smmenen
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 02:34:31 pm »

I think we are at the point where it should be possible to create sleeves that can disguise the square corners.  I agree that, so long as that happens, CE should become legal.  
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 03:05:06 pm »

I think we are at the point where it should be possible to create sleeves that can disguise the square corners.  I agree that, so long as that happens, CE should become legal.  

Perfect fits inside Black Dragon shields or Japanese Ultra-Pro (again, only certain colors) do this fine. It is also not hard at all to trim the corners to match Beta corners, which doesn't count as marking the card.
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« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2013, 08:57:33 pm »

If CE were legal, it would likely increase interest in Vintage.  This is a good thing for all Magic sales.  Right now, CE is only good for collecting and for the occasional ass who tries to pass them off as "real." 

Really no reason not to make CE legal... so long as you are using cases that mask the corners (something that already is standard in Vintage).
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2013, 11:52:19 pm »

I'm pretty sure making CE legal is tantamount to breaking the Reserved List, and if Wizards were to do that I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and print power to cash in on it.
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« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 12:13:15 am »

I'm pretty sure making CE legal is tantamount to breaking the Reserved List, and if Wizards were to do that I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and print power to cash in on it.

Are those world champion decks with gold bordered FOW etc considered as CE?
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 12:42:08 am »

I'm pretty sure making CE legal is tantamount to breaking the Reserved List, and if Wizards were to do that I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and print power to cash in on it.

Are those world champion decks with gold bordered FOW etc considered as CE?

Collectors' Edition was a specific release of Alpha/Beta (the whole set in one box).  CE had square corners (but otherwise normal fronts) and a gold border on the back of the card, while the World Champ cards have rounded borders, gold borders on the front, and an entirely different back.
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« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 07:43:49 am »

Legalizing CE would only help those that currently own CE. These people already play vintage. The price would skyrocket immediately.
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Killane
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 12:30:29 pm »

I'm pretty sure making CE legal is tantamount to breaking the Reserved List, and if Wizards were to do that I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and print power to cash in on it.

In what universe is changing format legality the same as reprinting cards? It's not the same thing at all.
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 01:49:08 pm »

I'm pretty sure making CE legal is tantamount to breaking the Reserved List, and if Wizards were to do that I don't see why they wouldn't just go ahead and print power to cash in on it.

In what universe is changing format legality the same as reprinting cards? It's not the same thing at all.

If Wizards really is worried about getting bitched out by collectors for reprinting power, I don't see any difference between legalizing what is effectively a bunch of proxies and just printing new actual power.  Either way, the format gets an influx of 'new' cards, and certain people are likely to complain about it.  One way, though, Wizards actually makes money.
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 09:12:16 pm »

A shame Collector's Editions were not Legal. That would have been like 14000 sets * 363 cards = 5 million cards. Not much compared to 40 million UL cards but the ratio Power Cards vs Crap Cards is so much higher.

Reserved list or whatever, I believe they will someday reprint Power, Duals,... in one form or the other. I don't think it is because they will suddenly decide to care about players or Eternal. I just think that when you are running a business, there is no rational reason to not exploit the goldmine you're seating on.

The number of possible legal power rares would go from about 22,800 to 37,800. It would almost double the count.

1,100 Alpha Rare
3,200 Beta Rare
18,500 Unlimited Rare

5,000 International Collector's Set
10,000 Collector's Set


http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/19021930/How_many_Alpha_Black_Lotus_
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