Council of the Absolute

[Stormanimagus]

Ok, I'm very surprised that other cards have come up for discussion, but this one sits untouched. I realize it was only spoiled yesterday, but really guys? Get on it jk.







Ok, this guy seems quite interesting to me for a variety of reasons.

1. If you are running Jace, this seems nuts against any deck running 4x Jace.

2. This opens up design space for cards that are prohibitively high in cost, but could be insane as 4-ofs (possibly a card like FoF though that wouldn't be my first idea).

3. He passes the Bolt test

4. He passes the "pitch to force" test.

5. While he would have been much better at 3cmc he does evade most all decks running Engineered Explosives and makes ratchet bomb a bad proposition.

6. I could see running interesting colorless artifacts with this guy. Crucible? Infinite loop artifacts?

I think Bant Control with Jaces could make great use of this guy, but maybe I'm way overvaluing it. Let me know if yhou think I am.

-Storm

[KrauserKrauser]

I would think Esper control would be more viable, but it definitely is an interesting card.  Meddling Mage in his later years.

[Stormanimagus]

I would think Esper control would be more viable, but it definitely is an interesting card.  Meddling Mage in his later years.

Super good call. Green offers very little and you can still get mana accel via D. Shaman from black. I'm already brewing something broken.



-Storm

[Samoht]

He is probably better than Salvagers in Bomberman. Not only to turn off their Jace's but to cheapen yours.

[Stormanimagus]

He is probably better than Salvagers in Bomberman. Not only to turn off their Jace's but to cheapen yours.

That was sorta my point in the original post. I mean, without salvagers bomberman isn't technically bomberman, but I really don't think it needs that combo to compete if it has tv/key and blightsteel instead.

I was basically referring in the first post to how broken this guy is in a deck running jace.

-Storm

[Samoht]

He is probably better than Salvagers in Bomberman. Not only to turn off their Jace's but to cheapen yours.

That was sorta my point in the original post. I mean, without salvagers bomberman isn't technically bomberman, but I really don't think it needs that combo to compete if it has tv/key and blightsteel instead.

I was basically referring in the first post to how broken this guy is in a deck running jace.

-Storm

I wouldn't run TV/K or Blightsteel. Just swap the Salvagers for this.

[Stormanimagus]

He is probably better than Salvagers in Bomberman. Not only to turn off their Jace's but to cheapen yours.

That was sorta my point in the original post. I mean, without salvagers bomberman isn't technically bomberman, but I really don't think it needs that combo to compete if it has tv/key and blightsteel instead.

I was basically referring in the first post to how broken this guy is in a deck running jace.

-Storm

I wouldn't run TV/K or Blightsteel. Just swap the Salvagers for this.

LoL, so my only real win con is Jace? Haha, I think not. You need an insta-win in a deck with no fat bodies. If you disagree I'm open to hearing your opinion of why you DON'T need such a win con.

-Storm

[Wagner]

He is probably better than Salvagers in Bomberman. Not only to turn off their Jace's but to cheapen yours.

That was sorta my point in the original post. I mean, without salvagers bomberman isn't technically bomberman, but I really don't think it needs that combo to compete if it has tv/key and blightsteel instead.

I was basically referring in the first post to how broken this guy is in a deck running jace.

-Storm

I wouldn't run TV/K or Blightsteel. Just swap the Salvagers for this.

But then you're stuck with Trinket Mages that don't really progress your gameplan and a toolbox with no special synergy. If you're going to remove Salvagers, just remove the 10-12 cards off the core Bomberman deck and make a good UW control deck.


As for the card, I really can't see him being o any use unless some sort of free spell combo works with it.
In all matchups with no Jace or other cards to mirror (probably above 50%), he's a bad overpriced Meddling Mage, and even in the Jace Mirror, I'd rather have something that comes on on turn 2 that's harder to drain and easier to protect.

If you got to name 1 card for the opponent and 1 for you, then MAYBE, but as it is, I can't see it being played.

[brianpk80]

Ok, I'm very surprised that other cards have come up for discussion, but this one sits untouched. I realize it was only spoiled yesterday, but really guys? Get on it jk.

I saw it but didn't get around to posting anything yesterday.  

It's another one that's very good against Landstill, since it can't be Bolted or realistically Exploded.  It's probably a big benefit in an aggro mirror to turn off an opponent's Swords to Plowshares but keep yours online.  Very interesting card.  

I wonder how it would play out in some modern upgrade of that old Sensei, Sensei deck.  Substituting Magus of the Future for Future Sight makes both of the combo-enablers uncounterable w. Cavern of Souls. 

[Guli]

This card is not broken, because it is fair. Fair cc. It would be broken and more interesting at   (with a 2/2 body).

[Samoht]

He is probably better than Salvagers in Bomberman. Not only to turn off their Jace's but to cheapen yours.

That was sorta my point in the original post. I mean, without salvagers bomberman isn't technically bomberman, but I really don't think it needs that combo to compete if it has tv/key and blightsteel instead.

I was basically referring in the first post to how broken this guy is in a deck running jace.

-Storm

I wouldn't run TV/K or Blightsteel. Just swap the Salvagers for this.

But then you're stuck with Trinket Mages that don't really progress your gameplan and a toolbox with no special synergy. If you're going to remove Salvagers, just remove the 10-12 cards off the core Bomberman deck and make a good UW control deck.

Trinket Mages significantly advance your game plan. They are either free (by acquiring Lotus), find you a Top, or find you hate. Just because you no longer have the loop available to you does not mean that they lose utility. The only card that becomes extraneous is the Aether Spellbomb. There is enough synergy in what is left to warrant it.

Bomberman isn't a typical control deck and cutting out Trinket Mage and it's tool box would not help it. Losing the "combo" would take away some of the wins that the deck generates, sure. However, this guy is a mirror breaker and thus warrants consideration.

[Stormanimagus]

man, if only thirst were unrestricted.

[Pokey]

Once people realize that bomberman is a good deck, this guy might be pretty good.  Until then, not so much.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

Bomberman almost never combos out with salvagers anyway. If you thing you need vault+key/tinker+bsc because you cut the salvagers, you should be of the opinion you need them with salvagers anyway.

[MaximumCDawg]

I think this dude is too expensive for Vintage.  When we actually pay four mana, we play cards that win the game.  Jace, Tezz, Gifts Ungiven (rarely), Salvagers, etc.  This guy is a 2/4 for 4, and a worse version of meddling mage.  His mana generating ability is nearly worthless considering how much he costs to cast himself; what is he helping you cast?

I suppose he does have some potential combo interaction to be explored, however.  Notice that his ability does NOT have a lower bound on the casting cost of your card.  So maybe you can run him in place of Locket or Helm of Awakening to enable Sensei's Divining Top combo, but have him cast in protect-me-from-Jace mode from time to time, too? 

If you can get a combo interaction going, maybe he's flat out better than salvagers because he has an alternative use.  Without the combo, I suspect he's terrible.

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I think this dude is too expensive for Vintage.  When we actually pay four mana, we play cards that win the game.  Jace, Tezz, Gifts Ungiven (rarely), Salvagers, etc.  This guy is a 2/4 for 4, and a worse version of meddling mage.  His mana generating ability is nearly worthless considering how much he costs to cast himself; what is he helping you cast?

I suppose he does have some potential combo interaction to be explored, however.  Notice that his ability does NOT have a lower bound on the casting cost of your card.  So maybe you can run him in place of Locket or Helm of Awakening to enable Sensei's Divining Top combo, but have him cast in protect-me-from-Jace mode from time to time, too? 

If you can get a combo interaction going, maybe he's flat out better than salvagers because he has an alternative use.  Without the combo, I suspect he's terrible.

One of the big reasons trinket mage is so goood in bomberman is because you can play it for lotus and then next turn play jace with mana drain backup. So I disagree that the mana accel doesn't do anything. And this also protects your jace from getting vindicated.

And just to repeat myself a bit, I hardly consider salvagers to game ending most of the time.

[xouman]

The best card to name would be jace, probably, since it will low the mana to pay for it and avoid opponent's jaces. But Council itself is a CC4, so if you can pay it, you also can pay for jace most of the time. Meddling feels better against everything but landstill (and only if landstill fails to mana denial you).

I can't see it replacing salvagers right now.