d8dk32
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« on: September 01, 2013, 05:14:33 pm » |
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------------------------------- Daxos of Meletis 1WU
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Daxos of Meletis can't be blocked by creatures with power 3 or greater. Whenever Daxos of Meletis deals combat damage to a player, exile the top card of that player's library. You gain life equal to that card's converted mana cost. Until end of turn, you may cast that card and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any color to cast it.
2/2 ------------------------------- My gut tells me this is vintage playable. It reminds me of something between Augury Adept and Nightveil Specter, both of which have seen fringe play if I'm not mistaken. It's a shame it's legendary, but the ability is potentially very powerful. Unlike the Specter, you can only cast them until the end of the turn, but the fact that mana color doesn't matter is cool. I'm not sure it will see more play than the specter, but the lifegain from this card could potentially help you stay on top when grinding out long games. While it can be blocked by many of the creatures in the format, it swings past a fair number of them, and can kill a fair number more in combat. I don't think it will be a defining card by any means, but I think it could see at least as much play as, and possibly more than, either of it's contemporaries.
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brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2013, 06:08:46 pm » |
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I agree with the above. It's not a huge leap forward but it's playable. It's interesting that in addition to the obvious creatures unable to block it (Golems & Robots), he can't be blocked by flipped Delvers, Vendilion Cliques, most Tarmogoyfs, Batterskull germ, and Restoration Angels.
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"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards. And then the clouds divide... something is revealed in the skies."
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Commandant
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2013, 06:47:38 pm » |
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He gets blocked by plenty of relevant and ubiquitous creatures. Edric already sees very little play. What reason is there to play a situationally good Edric in the least aggressive color spread? This guy is just an awful tempo sink.
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Shuffles, much like commas, are useful for altering tempo to add feeling.
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d8dk32
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2013, 10:02:13 pm » |
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He gets blocked by plenty of relevant and ubiquitous creatures. Edric already sees very little play. What reason is there to play a situationally good Edric in the least aggressive color spread? This guy is just an awful tempo sink.
I think it's different enough from Edric to merit discussion. The most ubiquitous creature that can block it and kill it in combat is Dark Confidant. I wonder whether or not most people would make the trade? Especially if the Confidant came down after this guy. It could create some pretty big life swings if for example, you connected with this guy and flipped a Jace, and then you're opponent flipped a Force off their bob in their next upkeep. If you could play the Jace that's just icing. Obviously that's a best case scenario, but even a smaller life swing could be clutch, especially when accompanied by casting a powerful spell. I don't want to get too excited about it, but it seems cool. That's what I think.
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Commandant
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 10:30:51 pm » |
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Snapcaster Mage, Trygon Predator, Young Pyromancer, Mishra's Factory, Phyrexian Revoker, Auriok Salvagers, Trinket Mage, the list goes on.
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Shuffles, much like commas, are useful for altering tempo to add feeling.
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d8dk32
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 11:26:22 pm » |
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I think this guy has a unique enough ability that it's worth talking about it a bit before jumping to conclusions. It's a repeatable effect, it attacks and deals damage, it's cheap enough to be playable, and doesn't need any prior setup or deck construction to be useful. Like I said before, I don't think we'll have another $80 card on our hands, but it's intriguing. I want to know what other people think.
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Guli
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2013, 03:55:27 am » |
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Snapcaster Mage, Trygon Predator, Young Pyromancer, Mishra's Factory, Phyrexian Revoker, Auriok Salvagers, Trinket Mage, the list goes on.
You have to see Daxos with a Noble Hierarch. He will be a 3/3 or 4/4 and the only creatures able to block it will have to sacrifice their lives and this guy will live to see another day.
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DubDub
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« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2013, 07:23:10 am » |
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I think the most direct comparison is Thada Adel, Acquisitor. Both are 2/2s for  with some sort of evasion and a card-stealing saboteur ability. Thada can get any card from the opponent's library, but is limited to artifacts. Daxos gets only the top card, but isn't limited to artifacts. I think Thada is significantly better because of the ability to choose. Thada can exile a Blightsteel of Time Vault with no intention of casting it, where Daxos has to get pretty lucky not to hit a card you don't even want. Are you going to pay  for the 'free' force you just 'drew'? No. And the five life you get probably doesn't make much difference in the big scheme of things. Thada is better. Thada sees no play (though she saw a little upon first release. Therefore Daxos is unplayable in Vintage. Close, but no cigar.
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Vintage is a lovely format, it's too bad so few people can play because the supply of power is so small.
Chess really changed when they decided to stop making Queens and Bishops. I'm just glad I got my copies before the prices went crazy.
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xouman
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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2013, 08:46:24 am » |
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i played thada and would still play her in some decks ill-prepared against vault and tinkerbot. I stopped playing that mono-blue deck because of lodestone golem, and it's still the worst problem for thada. Against mud is difficult to play and hard to connect. Besides if it connects, you are not getting the win condition singleton but a lotus to get mana (not bad without null rod or cotv), hellkite/wurmcoil to prevent havoc, or a sol ring/mox to outpace spheres. Not bad at all, but does not win half the game in two swings as thada did before jace against some blue decks. daxos is a human, so it's better than thada given caverns and mayor (if applicable). Against pyromancer tokens thada gets the edge, since it won't be blocked. I can't say which is better.
@Guli: an exalted Daxos is 3/3, but double blocking it with two 2/2 creatures mean 1 kill for each player. Even if it's a 4/4, double blocking it makes a 2 for 1, bad but not terrible.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2013, 08:53:30 am » |
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The only way I see this being a playable over any other like option is because he is human, so in human caverns he can get +1/+1 off mayor and be uncounterable. I am doubtful that he has a real home however because I would much rather drop giest of st traft or a stoneforge mystic with mana up than this guy.
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vaughnbros
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2013, 09:08:41 am » |
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I don't think his evasion is really strong enough for vintage. If he was flying, or had the opposite (creatures power 2 or less can't block him) I think he could be a solid singleton. The only way I see this being a playable over any other like option is because he is human, so in human caverns he can get +1/+1 off mayor and be uncounterable. I am doubtful that he has a real home however because I would much rather drop giest of st traft or a stoneforge mystic with mana up than this guy.
Yeh Geist of Saint Traft while a seemingly different card is actually comparable. Both are 1WU for a 2/2 that wants to swing every turn. Hexproof is compared to circumstantial unblockable. The difference is geist's ability triggers on the attack not the damage, probably making it a stronger choice.
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Guli
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2013, 09:16:24 am » |
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Life gain is very important with cards that are being used right now: see City of Brass, Dark Confidant, Vampiric Tutor. Also creatures beating you is very common. This is probably the best Human from the set, and this makes me sad  I expected something way more usable and powerfull. I hope I am wrong, still a lot cards to go.
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d8dk32
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2013, 11:33:14 am » |
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I think everyone's comments sum it up pretty nicely. Having played a bit with Thada Adel in vintage, I found her underwhelming. When you occasionally steal Vault/Key and just win she's broken, but otherwise you don't get much out of it except a mox or something. Are you going to pay  for the 'free' force you just 'drew'? No. And the five life you get probably doesn't make much difference in the big scheme of things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you could pitch a blue card in hand to pay for a Force you flipped. It's when you flip things like ancestral, lotus, walk, Jace, Bob, that's the situation where it's strong. And as Guli pointed out, I think the lifegain is more relevant now since so many decks seem to win by attacking with creatures. At any rate, I don't think I'd ever play more than one of these in a deck like Cavern Humans. The fact that it's legendary means you never really want to see more than one anyway. I'll be interested to see if anyone tries it out, and what they think of it.
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