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Stormanimagus
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« on: April 28, 2014, 08:36:41 pm » |
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So, we just had an enchantment based block released and I thought to myself: "might there be an enchantment deck in the works that attacks the format from a slightly different angle?" I started concocting more controlling mono-white lists but none of them really inspired my confidence and didn't seem to apply enough early pressure. I talked with a trusted friend about the concept of a "enchantment" deck and he suggested I go more the combo route using a couple win-cons like Helm-Leyline or Opalescence. I have a list I've been working on that uses the synergy between the card Atunement and Replenish. I think Replenish and Serra's Sanctum being unrestricted are what make such a deck even powerful. Throw in some Leyline Of Anticipations and you have a way to resolve threats on your opponent's eot which helps to skirt around countermagic. First, let's take a look at the list:        Replenished AttunementLand (18):4 Serra’s Sanctum 4 Flooded Strand 4 Tundra 2 Plains 2 Ancient Tomb 1 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine Artifacts (9):1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mana Crypt 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Pithing Needle 1 Helm Of Obedience Enchantment Creatures (1):1 Spirit Of The Labyrinth Enchantments (24):1 Rest In Peace 1 Stony Silence 1 Planar Collapse 1 Seal Of Cleansing 3 Banishing Light 4 Attunement 4 Leyline Of Sanctity 4 Leyline Of The Void 4 Leyline Of Anticipation 1 Opalescence Instants (4):4 Enlightened Tutor Sorceries (4):4 Replenish Sideboard2 Rest In Peace 2 Wasteland 2 Ancient Tomb 4 Energy Flux 1 Aegis Of The Gods 1 Banishing Light 1 Moat 1 Parallax Wave 1 Oblivion Ring This deck is able to run some tutorable answers for the fastest decks in the format (Stony Silence > Vault/Key & Combo Oath, RIP > Dredge, Planar Collapse > Little Creatures, Spirit Of The Labyrinth > Jace & Gush) while also being somewhat a combo deck itself. I'm not sure if 1 more Opalescence might be warranted or not, but Replenish makes the 1-ofs in the deck far more able to just stick around. I'd like some feedback on this deck and for players who own the cards or are so inclined to test the deck against the field. I don't really have time to test anymore and I'm more or less out of the game, but I like theorizing about new broken ideas once in a while and this seems like a neat alternative to Two-Card Monte that has a better more robust disruption package and MAJOR redundancy. But yeah, ideas? -Storm
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 12:35:18 am by Stormanimagus »
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 09:24:19 pm » |
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Bump for initial commentary  . Let's get the ball rolling.
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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xouman
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2014, 03:02:19 am » |
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I'm not sold on Attunement, but I agree that replenish makes it awesome. I'd play more moxen, and stony silence would be in my sb. Most of your cards are quite costly and you want to play them as quickly as possible. Besides, ancestral and time walk are a must in any powered deck with blue. And probably brainstorm too. I miss propaganda as another answer to aggro and dredge, but I'm not sure since it would hurt one of your wincons (oppalescence). However with lots of enchantments and serra's sanctum you could pay for some attackers. Silvan library is green, but fits perfectly. with tutors and fetchlands much better, and fills the gap in the early curve. And elephant grass could replace that propaganda I suggested. I have never seen an enchantments deck in vintage, so I haven't any idea about its raw power, but there are lots of good cards and nice synergies. Good luck with this new build 
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2014, 02:35:55 pm » |
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Just because Enchantress is a known quantity in another format does not make it viable in Vintage. This deck isn't enchantress nor does it have anything in common with the deck other than a couple engine cards (Sanctum and Attunement). In Vintage a deck that seeks to profitably interact with the format MUST do so from turn 1 (sometimes turn 0) and continue to bring the pressure of speed or disruption every turn. Enchantress is WAAAY too slow to compete in Vintage. This deck might be as well, but the turn 0 disruption that Leyline Of Sanctity and Leyline Of The Void provide should give you the time you need to set up a win. And against the mana denial of shops you have 12 pseudo moxen when combined with a Serra's Sanctum. You also run an efficient tutor that can protect combo pieces from Duress effects. I think this list has FAAAR more potential in Vintage than any traditional Enchantress list. I do believe the design could be tweaked to run less than 4 Attunement, however, as the card isn't very good in multiples once you get the Replenish engine going. -Storm
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2014, 02:48:55 pm » |
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Ok, new list with some of the suggestions taken into account:
Combo Sanctum
Land (18): 4 Serra’s Sanctum 4 Flooded Strand 4 Tundra 2 Plains 2 Ancient Tomb 1 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine
Artifacts (9): 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mana Crypt 1 Sol Ring 1 Mana Vault 1 Pithing Needle 1 Helm Of Obedience
Enchantment Creatures (1): 1 Spirit Of The Labyrinth
Enchantments (22): 1 Rest In Peace 1 Seal Of Cleansing 1 Detention Sphere 3 Banishing Light 2 Attunement 1 Parallax Wave 4 Leyline Of Sanctity 4 Leyline Of The Void 4 Leyline Of Anticipation 1 Opalessence
Instants (5): 1 Ancestral Recall 4 Enlightened Tutor
Sorceries (5): 1 Time Walk 4 Replenish
Sideboard 2 Rest In Peace 2 Wasteland 2 Ancient Tomb 4 Energy Flux 1 Stony Silence 1 Aegis Of The Gods 1 Banishing Light 1 Moat 1 Balance
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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Vennie
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2014, 01:29:19 am » |
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Why do you play banishing light instead of o-ring? Are you worried that your opponent will bounce his only target to force you to kill your own permanent?
I can see situations where with leyline of anticipation is online and your opponent plays reverrent silence (or somthing like it) where you can use O-ring to save a permanent in resp for instance.
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2014, 01:35:42 am » |
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Why do you play banishing light instead of o-ring? Are you worried that your opponent will bounce his only target to force you to kill your own permanent?
I can see situations where with leyline of anticipation is online and your opponent plays reverrent silence (or somthing like it) where you can use O-ring to save a permanent in resp for instance.
Didn't think about the Leyline of Anticipation interaction, but yeah, the main reason for running Banishing Light is the fact that you can't screw yourself when you have like 3 of them in the yard and you cast replenish when your opponent only has two removable permanents. To me, that upside is better than the upside of instant speeding an O-Ring. -Storm
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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Zeksagmak
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2014, 11:47:38 am » |
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Why not detention sphere?
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2014, 12:00:06 pm » |
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Why not detention sphere?
I do run 1 already, but mostly the casting cost is the deterrent. -Storm
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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SickDuck
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2014, 06:36:41 pm » |
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Nice, I was looking at an enchantment deck too, I like your ideas, definitely more viable than the slightly different theme I was looking at. Serra's Sanctum being unrestricted seems like it should be something to abuse along with Leylines.
Have you thought about Aura of Silence in main, or maybe in the sideboard in place of some or all of the Energy Fluxes?
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We will surely avoid scurvy if we eat an orange...
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Stormanimagus
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2014, 06:40:37 pm » |
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Nice, I was looking at an enchantment deck too, I like your ideas, definitely more viable than the slightly different theme I was looking at. Serra's Sanctum being unrestricted seems like it should be something to abuse along with Leylines.
Have you thought about Aura of Silence in main, or maybe in the sideboard in place of some or all of the Energy Fluxes?
I find that it is more of a permanent answer to run Energy Flux, but Aura could be decent and would have more applications against decks like combo oath. I could see running 1-2 copies somewhere in the 75. -Storm
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"To light a candle is to cast a shadow. . ."
—Ursula K. Leguin
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serracollector
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 10:46:21 pm » |
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Have you tried or tested mystic remora? could easily be fueled with sanctum and provides fodder for attunement and replenish obviously great with anticipation.
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B/R discussions are not allowed outside of Vintage Issues, and that includes signatures.
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 11:50:53 pm » |
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I don't know if WUB is the way to go. You have 4 enlightened already, why not go WRG and run pandemonium/saproling burst? With Sanctums, you can power out the combo fast. You can draw 1 piece and tutor for the other. You can replenish should either be countered and win. You can run opalescence as plan B. You could even try bazaars to fuel replenish. You could go 4 color (run a rainbow base since you should be much faster than the damage you take) and run duress/seize to clear the path (though silence/abeyance/orim's chant does just as well) and DT, vamp, and entomb if you need extra tutors.
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"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath
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Twiedel
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2014, 03:26:20 am » |
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Basically, you are trying to resolve a 4 mana sorcery (sometimes instant), you can't reliably cast your cards without serra's sanctum, and you lay down near zer disruption when not playing against a storm deck. Your draw engine is a glorified Bazaar of Baghdad that costs 3 mana per activation and costs you cards actually. Meanwhile you get hit by Misstep, Flusterstorm and all regular Counterspells.
Sorry, but I don't see any point in playing this. If you find a way to make Replenish uncounterable, I might look into it - but as this stands, you loose against 2 Counterspells all the time because of way too many dead draws...
my 2 cents
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fsecco
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2014, 06:02:15 pm » |
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This is a known fringe playable Legacy deck called Leylines. I don't even know if you are claiming the this is an original idea, but just so you know, it has been played in Legacy for a while now - and it's not that great there.
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TheWhiteDragon
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2014, 07:56:26 pm » |
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Basically, you are trying to resolve a 4 mana sorcery (sometimes instant), you can't reliably cast your cards without serra's sanctum, and you lay down near zer disruption when not playing against a storm deck. Your draw engine is a glorified Bazaar of Baghdad that costs 3 mana per activation and costs you cards actually. Meanwhile you get hit by Misstep, Flusterstorm and all regular Counterspells.
Sorry, but I don't see any point in playing this. If you find a way to make Replenish uncounterable, I might look into it - but as this stands, you loose against 2 Counterspells all the time because of way too many dead draws...
my 2 cents
Boseiju
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"I know to whom I owe the most loyalty, and I see him in the mirror every day." - Starke of Rath
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