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Author Topic: White Trash!  (Read 16793 times)
Fossy
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« on: January 01, 2014, 05:03:24 am »

Dear TMDers!

Just as last year, a group of friends and me travelled from Berlin (Germany) to Hanau (also Germany) where at the end of each year a vintage tournament is organized next to other formats. Instead of last year’s 63 players, only 38 competitors gathered. (The vintage format seems to be in some kind of vicious circle. I feels as if it is drying up.)

I registered with the very same “White Trash” list, which I maneuvered last year to a perhaps surprising 4:2 (see here and the following posts). I simply didn’t have the time to bring myself up to speed regarding vintage and to be innovative. Here it is:

Maindeck:

4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Dryad Militant
3 Student of Warfare

3 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile

4 Ghost Quarter
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine

13 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Chrome Mox

Sideboard:

1 Rest in Peace
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Stony Silence
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Serenity
4 Abolish

Unfortunately, I appear to have thrown away all my notes. So I am very sorry to mess with important details or mix up the names of my opponents, who have all been exceptionally nice. So, here is only a short and sketchy version of how I fared in the six rounds of vintage:

Round 1: against MUD (Patrick)

He wins the die roll, immediately mulls to six, does not look too enthusiastic about his hand. Not knowing what deck my opponent plays, I keep a reasonable seven with a Wasteland, two Plains, and some two-drop critters. He starts by playing an Ancient Tomb and a Grim Monolith. Given nothing else, I waste his sol land. He proceeds with Strip Mine into the horrible Lodestone Golem. I play a Plains. He looks confused. The golem is joined by another sol land and a Thorn of Amethyst and the golem delivers the beats. I accumulate mana for another round, but he appears to be out of gas. Luckily he does not strip one of my two plains and waited for something more worthwhile. I am at 5, play a Karakas and a hungry Leonin-Relic Warder dismantles the golem. Thalia and the cat take the game from there.

In game two he opens with a sol land into Sphere of Resistance. I waste the sol land. He continues with Mishra’s Workshop into the second sphere. I strip the Workshop. He is locked for now. I accumulate mana. His mana is soon tied down by a Stony Silence. I avoid playing my Kataki, War’s Wage. Beats by a student and a cat are enough to bring this game home.

That’s 1:0 (2:0)


Round 2: against some combo deck (Joseph)

I do not remember much of this match anymore. In the first game, I put down a first turn Thalia, Guardian of Thraben with the help of a Chrome Mox (discard Student of Warfare). He plays a Polluted Delta. I’ll test the waters with a Leonin Arbiter who meets Force of Will. But I soon manage to play a stony silence and a second anti-search creature. He scoops. So, I put him on some combo deck.

In game two, he plays a first turn Necropotence, goes from 20 life to 12 and 8 in his turn afterwards. I manage to beat him down to 4 life but eventually the lock is not hard enough and he easily takes my life with a Tendrils of Agony off a 8ish Mind’s Desire.

Game three is lock and beatdown mode again. I manage to take home the win, but do not remember much else.

That’s 2:0 (4:1)


Round 3: against Doomsday (Tobias)

Tobias and me apparently get paired every year and so he was already smiling when I came to the table. “Combo again, Tobi?” “Some new form of fringe Deck, Sven?” Anyway, naturally he wins the die roll and I mulligan to six. Tobi starts with a Polluted Delta, Mox (Jet?) and an Ancestral Recall. Well, thanks for reminding me what White Trash cannot do, Tobi. I proceed with a Plains and ship the turn back to him which is also the time where he combos me out with Doomsday and Laboratory Maniac. Oh Path to Exile! Where have you been?

The second game evolves differently. I bring some lock components to the board and beat him down to two life. So, in his characteristic sympathetic and calm fashion Tobi says: “Hm, either now or never. So far I only have a storm count of eight. Let’s see what happens. There is every reason to make this gamble”. Well, it turned out to be very fine… But it was the nicest match so far. Always a pleasure, Tobias! Still undefeated but I’ll go for your throat next year!

That’s 2:1 (4:3)


Round 4: against Painter Grindstone (Jiri)

Similar to our group from Berlin, there is a group of Czech players every year and Jiri is one of them. It turns out, Jiri plays blue-red Painter Grindstone. I do not remember everything but Kataki pretty much seals the deal in game one when Jiri had two Seat of the Synod, a Grind Stone, and a Sensei’s Divining Top.

During the second game, I successfully cast one of the stony silences after Phyrexian Revokers, Kataki and Thalia get countered. From there it was only a matter of time to be faster than Jiri finds a bounce spell.

That’s 3:1 (6:3)


Round 5: against Steel City Vault (Ralf)

I also met Ralf before. But we have not been sure what we have been playing; probably Tezzeret versus Christmas Beatings. The first game -- which Ralf starts -- is finished relatively fast after his Ancestral Recall on my first end step. He proceeds in his second turn with some stuff (Sol Ring, Lotus Petal, Brainstorm, Time Walk), plays Jace and goes from there with a 6ish Minds Desire which finally assembles the key vault combo after some intense tutoring.

In stark contrast, I control the second game in a more or less dominant fashion with Stony Silence, Thalia and a level 7 Student of Warfare who convincingly delivers the final beats.

Now the final game was intense and I was too excited about the 4:1 prospect. I made a couple of minor errors. Being a good guy, Ralf just reminded me to do this properly and did not get upset. But here is a major misstep. I had three Plains and a Ghost Quarter and wanted to play Thalia and a Leonin Relic-Warder, while knowing that Ralf did not have any more counter spells. But, oh well, I played Thalia by tapping two Plains and then wanted to play the cat with the mana left. I had all worked out in my mind and was convinced to win. But this mistake lead to a eventually tinkered-up Blightsteel Colossus, which was eaten by the aforementioned cat instead of a Sol Ring. I had Ralf on six life and he would have died next turn but he found the Echoing Truth, played it on my end step. So the colossus came for visit while I had no blockers…

That’s 3:2 (7:5)


Round 6: against BUG Fish (Marcus)

Well, White Thrash does not like fish style decks. BUG Fish is certainly no exception. In the first game, I manage to beat Marcus down to 6 life and then he stabilizes. And he clearly dominates the second game as well. Nothing more to say. (I also don’t remember a lot apart from True-Name Nemesis, Deathrite Shamans, and a lonely Trygon Predator dominating the sky.)

Final result: 3:3 (7:7).

Usually, I play rarely more than once a year and I made quite some embarrassing mistakes, which might have cost me at least one game. Simple things really that are just a matter of practice. And a deck like this is not forgiving when even small mistakes are concerned. But this separated the “boy from the man” and who knows what I would have faced if I had won against Ralf in round 5.

However, I like playing this list for the simple reason that I have so much fun with it. During the last round, a spectating fellow tournament participant mumbled something like: “Was that a ghost quarter? Who plays ghost quarters in vintage?” And I answered: “Well, as far as I remember you played Demon Oath last year and I crushed you 2:0”. This lead to a heartily laugh from the other spectators, some of which I had played earlier this day. And the young chap smiled too, admitting last year’s defeat.

And if you may enjoy being “the guy that plays basic plains” at a vintage tournament, you should give it a try.

Still, the deck does not feel to be at its full potential. It feels to be at disadvantage against fish-style decks. I am not sold on the Dryad Arbor. However, I do not see another one-drop that might take the spot in Vintage. I am also contemplating fitting in 4 Chalice of the Void. I do not know yet and any suggestion is more than welcome.

I am also wondering if this threat belongs in the “creative” section. It is more like “null rod based aggro”. And in the latter, TMWA and Christmas Beatings are discussed which are quite comparable to this deck, I think. What do you think?

EDIT: spelling and grammar mistakes (there are certainly more in there)

Please don't necro old threads - start new ones.
-Godder
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 01:13:06 am by Godder » Logged
xouman
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2014, 03:45:30 pm »

Some people play this deck in LCV (Barcelona, Spain) from time to time. It's probably one of the best budget decks to play.

The maindeck seems strong enough for me. However, if aggro is an issue (and often is), sfm+batterskull could do the trick.

One last thing: is cavern of souls worth a try? I know there are different creature types, and having more non basic lands could be a nuisance. But in the other hand, avoiding chalices (specially if you finally play them too) and opponent countermagic is great.
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Uvatha
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2014, 05:52:34 am »

Have you considered 'Sky Hussar' for card draw? Pretty good for breaking stalemates or situations where you can't find a good attack before you find a Student of Warfare or a Path to Exile.

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Fossy
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« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2014, 07:21:52 am »

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I certainly have considered Cavern of Souls. But I found the number of plains much to low for the Abolishs in the sideboard. And these are my solution for an opposing Chalice with two charge counters. I do have a Christmas Beatings list with Chalice, Cavern, and Vexing Shusher, however.

The suggestion of Sky Hussar is golden because I would have never stumbled across the card. For now, I am sceptical though. As a White Trash player, I rarely have more than three creatures on the board one of which is often Revoker. But these creatures attack which renders the forecast ability of Sky Hussar unusable. If one plays more white creatures, one risks overextending. If I play more, I am almost certain to win next round with the additional beats. But I like to try the Hussar especially in the aggro match ups. Thanks again.
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msg67183
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2014, 07:33:26 am »

@Fossy: I used your list to help my friend play at Philidelphia, for Vintage Champs:

 I know of 2 people that played this deck at Vintage Champs. Both played your exact main deck -2 Chrome Mox, -2 Plains, -3 Student of Warfare, +3 Judge's Familiar +4 Cavern of Souls. My buddy played the exact sideboard -4 Abolish, +4 War Priest of Thune, I'm not certain on the other guys exact board but I know it "transformed" into Stoneforge Mystic for creature decks.

My buddy didn't do too well and dropped around round 5, but the other guy went 5-4 unpowered and won a top 8 unpowered prize. Maybe you could try the changes he went with.
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Bloomsburg Tournaments:

1 Win
3 Finals
2 Top 4
2 Top 8

Outside Bloomsburg:

Winter Grudge Match lV Top 4

Creator of The Mana Drain Vintage League.

Website for The League:

http://tmdvl.github.io

Zombies ate your brains!
Uvatha
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2014, 08:53:20 am »

For now, I am sceptical though.
Same was I Smile I play the Classic format online on MTGO and that's where I have seen it used with success lately. But I was convinced after trying it. And please don't automatically disregard Classic tech/decks - The Affinity deck that also has taken down some events in Vintage was conceived on MTGO by a Classic player long before it made its entrance in Vintage.

@Fossy: I used your list to help my friend play at Philidelphia, for Vintage Champs:
Both played your exact main deck -2 Chrome Mox, -2 Plains, -3 Student of Warfare, +3 Judge's Familiar +4 Cavern of Souls.
Cut down on the Chrome Moxen? I'd add more to increase the chance of landing a Leonin Arbiter, Thalia or another VIP right away. I understand there are differences between Vintage and Classic but Vintage being even more explosive than Classic I'd expect that to be even more critical when playing Vintage.

Another fun thing about Sky Hussar is that if you manage to fit Cavern of Souls you can even play it if the games go long as it is a Human
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msg67183
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« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2014, 04:11:43 pm »

The thing about Chrome Mox is that it is Card Disadvantage, giving up a card to make mana. That is why we played the deck the way we did.
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Bloomsburg Tournaments:

1 Win
3 Finals
2 Top 4
2 Top 8

Outside Bloomsburg:

Winter Grudge Match lV Top 4

Creator of The Mana Drain Vintage League.

Website for The League:

http://tmdvl.github.io

Zombies ate your brains!
Fossy
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2014, 02:42:51 am »

Well, first of all I am thankful for people starting from my list and improving it. The changes you mention are interesting. I wish these people would have done a bit better. Please give my best regards to these people. Smile

The thing about Chrome Mox is that it is Card Disadvantage, giving up a card to make mana.

With regard to Chrome Mox: I think if you take a decision based on your statement above, the decision might be wrong. Sure, Chrome Mox means card disadvantage. But first, the cost involved may be a redundant card which you may not need in the future match. Second, and more important, you appear to forget that there is not only a cost but also benefit. Essentially, you trade off tempo with card disadvantage.

The question is, if this is valuable enough for you. I for my part am very hesitant of taking them out. I am actually deliberating about going to three, taking out a student. And then also adding three Grafdigger's Cage instead of Dryad Militant. That does not help the aggro match ups. But it furthers the Dredge match up where Dryad does not shine so much. It also helps the control match ups insofar as it prevents tinkering up creatures. And finally, the combo match up is neither better nor worse, I think. Dryad is a pain in the ass for combo players (as I was told on during the tournament). But I guess Grafdigger's Cage's second clause is more than just a nuisance as well.
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msg67183
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 02:58:58 am »

I do not play the deck, so I can't say whether the changes my buddys made were correct or not, I currently play Merfolk and and trying to build a vintage Sliver deck. All I can say is that I am very surprised how much White Trash as "evolved" since I brought it to the microscope back in 2011!
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Bloomsburg Tournaments:

1 Win
3 Finals
2 Top 4
2 Top 8

Outside Bloomsburg:

Winter Grudge Match lV Top 4

Creator of The Mana Drain Vintage League.

Website for The League:

http://tmdvl.github.io

Zombies ate your brains!
Protoaddict
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 10:09:27 am »



This feels like a fantastic beater for this list. It's strictly a finisher and almost certainly a 1 of because it does not really do much for disrupting your opponent except gum up the ground game, but it is almost certain to be bigger and more impactful than anything else you can get for 3 mana and will close up the game fast.
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Protoaddict
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 10:46:00 am »

In keeping with mono white, has anyone thought about using a straight up anthem like Honor of the Pure?

I know conventional wisdom says this is probably not playable, as it does not interact with the stack and sometimes has no impact, but since mono white is a grindy creature match up and this enables most of out dudes to trade with everything relevant, is it not a decent sideboard option?

I mean landing one, even of the initial investment of a card, turns most everything into the list into an end game threat, and the longer the game goes the better it becomes.

Also consider the higher the enchantment count (Spirit, stony silence, Rest in peace, maybe Edilon of countless battles some day) the more realistic serra's sanctum starts to look.
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