TheManaDrain.com
September 05, 2025, 11:38:26 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: [Free Article] NYSE Open III; or, The Monk and the Priest  (Read 2537 times)
wappla
Basic User
**
Posts: 74


View Profile
« on: July 13, 2015, 10:28:21 am »

NYSE Open III; or, The Monk and the Priest (puremtgo.com)

I wrote a short article about the most recent NYSE and what the event revealed about the Vintage metagame. In it, I present an argument that Containment Priest is the key piece to understanding the format at the present moment.
Logged
brianpk80
2015 Vintage World Champion
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 1333



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 12:22:27 pm »

That was a fantastic article, wappla.  I love the color scheme and organization used in the visual breakdown of the NYSE3 metagame.  Another card I would draw attention to as a factor in Oath's underperformance is Karakas.  I played Salvagers Oath (with one Griselbrand) and went X-3 making it pathetically tied for best performing Oath deck in the event; all losses were to Shops on the draw since in four Shop matches, I couldn't win the play to save my life (in the fourth one, I won the match despite losing the die roll, which v. Shop I guess does happen 15-35% of the time).  Griselbrand is the most powerful target so as the standard lists evolved more towards having a singular aim of getting him in play (adding Show and Tells, cutting Jaces and Tezzeret packages), they've gotten very vulnerable to that land in particular.  Karakas branched out from Terra Nova into multiple different Shop archetypes, has always been played in WX hatebears, and now is even seen at times in Delver sideboards specifically for Oath targets.  

Before the event, Greg whose namesake list is most popular asked me for input on a few last minute md/sideboard considerations.  I half-jokingly suggested Tsabo's Web (2 CMC Artifact, Draw a Card when it CITP, Lands with activated abilities that aren't mana sources do not untap).  It's an anti Terra Nova card.  Rich used it once or twice last year; I sideboarded it a couple times when TN was on the rise locally.  We agreed it was probably too narrow.  Later in the day, I saw him in a match with a tapped Griselbrand in play, facing down a Meekstone, Karakas, and two Mazes of Ith.  "Maybe I should have more seriously urged the use of Tsabo's..." my conscience chimed in.  

On Saturday again I saw a fellow Oath player's dominant board go right down the tubes because an opponent had an untapped Karakas and Spirit of the Labyrinth in play.  This land is a huge and real problem.  LSV Oath addresses both Karakas and Priest by putting Omniscience into play (unaffected by Priest or Cage and Emrakul's "take an extra turn" clause means if they bounce him with Karakas, you just play him again for free with Omni and he will get in there with attacks).  I fight Karakas with Auriok and by boarding in nonlegendary monsters like Sphinx of the Steel Wind and Magus of the Moat (which hoses the types of aggro/prison decks who tend to use Karakas) and fight Priest by upping the count of Pyrite Spellbomb at the expense of AEther Spellbomb which is no longer as useful with Tinker on decline.  

I think Oath is still a strong choice for Champs and expect to see it well represented again because it preys harder on the non-proxy field than proxy-legal metagames.  While Containment Priest is a nuisance, the extreme hate for Griselbrand himself is another arguably more pressing obstacle.  Relying on Priest will be insufficient against Omniscience decks and Oath lists that adapt to deal with all of the hate.  
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 12:25:19 pm by brianpk80 » Logged

"It seems like a normal Monk deck with all the normal Monk cards.  And then the clouds divide...  something is revealed in the skies."
rikter
Basic User
**
Posts: 139


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 12:29:47 pm »

That was a fantastic article, wappla.  I love the color scheme and organization used in the visual breakdown of the NYSE3 metagame.  Another card I would draw attention to as a factor in Oath's underperformance is Karakas.  I played Salvagers Oath (with one Griselbrand) and went X-3 making it pathetically tied for best performing Oath deck in the event; all losses were to Shops on the draw since in four Shop matches, I couldn't win the play to save my life (in the fourth one, I won the match despite losing the die roll, which v. Shop I guess does happen 15-35% of the time).  Griselbrand is the most powerful target so as the standard lists evolved more towards having a singular aim of getting him in play (adding Show and Tells, cutting Jaces and Tezzeret packages), they've gotten very vulnerable to that land in particular.  Karakas branched out from Terra Nova into multiple different Shop archetypes, has always been played in WX hatebears, and now is even seen at times in Delver sideboards specifically for Oath targets.  

Before the event, Greg whose namesake list is most popular asked me for input on a few last minute md/sideboard considerations.  I half-jokingly suggested Tsabo's Web (2 CMC Artifact, Draw a Card when it CITP, Lands with activated abilities that aren't mana sources do not untap).  It's an anti Terra Nova card.  Rich used it once or twice last year; I sideboarded it a couple times when TN was on the rise locally.  We agreed it was probably too narrow.  Later in the day, I saw him in a match with a tapped Griselbrand in play, facing down a Meekstone, Karakas, and two Mazes of Ith.  "Maybe I should have more seriously urged the use of Tsabo's..." my conscience chimed in.  

On Saturday again I saw a fellow Oath player's dominant board go right down the tubes because an opponent had an untapped Karakas and Spirit of the Labyrinth in play.  This land is a huge and real problem.  LSV Oath addresses both Karakas and Priest by putting Omniscience into play (unaffected by Priest or Cage and Emrakul's "take an extra turn" clause means if they bounce him with Karakas, you just play him again for free with Omni and he will get in there with attacks).  I fight Karakas with Auriok and by boarding in nonlegendary monsters like Sphinx of the Steel Wind and Magus of the Moat (which hoses the types of aggro/prison decks who tend to use Karakas) and fight Priest by upping the count of Pyrite Spellbomb at the expense of AEther Spellbomb which is no longer as useful with Tinker on decline.  

I think Oath is still a strong choice for Champs and expect to see it well represented again because it preys harder on the non-proxy field than proxy-legal metagames.  While Containment Priest is a nuisance, the extreme hate for Griselbrand himself is another arguably more pressing obstacle.  Relying on Priest will be insufficient against Omniscience decks and Oath lists that adapt to deal with all of the hate.  

I like the Tsabo's web, I can't really play it in Shops because it hurts me too much but its a relevant card. It's currently in my Legacy board to help with Death and Taxes, Lands and Infect matchups.

To OP, really enjoyed the article, thought it was well written and informative.
Logged
TheBrassMan
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 692


AndyProbasco
View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2015, 03:50:17 pm »

Really strong article wappla, both in terms of content and writing style. Your posts on mentor have been great reads as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you put out next.  Very Happy
Logged

Team GGs:  "Be careful what you flash barato, sooner or later we'll bannano"
"Demonic Tutor: it takes you to the Strip Mine Cow."
Islandswamp
Tournament Organizers
Basic User
**
Posts: 328


MTGGoldfish Writer


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2015, 06:05:17 pm »

Really strong article wappla, both in terms of content and writing style. Your posts on mentor have been great reads as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you put out next.  Very Happy

I agree completely, and I'm glad that you linked to it here. See you in the Vintage queues!
Logged

Check out my articles @ www.mtggoldfish.com  www.puremtgo.com Follow me on Twitter: @josephfiorinijr - Watch me make EPIC PUNTS on Twitch.TV @ http://www.twitch.tv/josephfiorini06

Just like a car crash,
Just like a knife.
My favorite weapon
is the look in your eyes.
You've run out of lies...
CrashTest
Basic User
**
Posts: 152



View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2015, 10:41:00 pm »

Great article, exactly what I was looking to read after a big 150 person event- barely anyone has written about it and this is an oasis in the desert!

I also played oath there, and had the same experience you mentioned.
Logged
diopter
I voted for Smmenen!
Basic User
**
Posts: 1049


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2015, 12:02:09 am »

The conclusion is perfectly sound. Adding White's Mentors and Priests is a trump of sorts in the mirror, and gives you ~similar game against Oath, at the expense of every other relevant matchup. Looking forward to the metagame adaptations that ensue, though it's sad that White will inevitably ebb from lists going forward.
Logged
Varal
Basic User
**
Posts: 165


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2015, 09:29:45 am »

I'm not sure how good is Landstill against Shops. I won the 3 matches I played against UW Landstill at the NYSE and I didn't feel I was especially lucky. My match against UR Landstill felt harder. I was under the impression that UW Landstill was better against the blue mirror and creature decks but less good against Shops. It might just be my biased experience but I don't think UW Landstill is that great against Workshops.
Logged
rikter
Basic User
**
Posts: 139


View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2015, 10:03:40 am »

I'm not sure how good is Landstill against Shops. I won the 3 matches I played against UW Landstill at the NYSE and I didn't feel I was especially lucky. My match against UR Landstill felt harder. I was under the impression that UW Landstill was better against the blue mirror and creature decks but less good against Shops. It might just be my biased experience but I don't think UW Landstill is that great against Workshops.

I also won my matches against Landstill at NYSE while playing Martello Shops, without doing anything particularly broken. Breaking a standstill isn't really a big deal when they can't actually cast any of the things they draw.
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.277 seconds with 20 queries.