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Author Topic: Lock and Lode  (Read 2373 times)
Jester
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« on: January 21, 2004, 11:53:10 pm »

Well lets start with the decklist.

4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea
4x Underground River
4x Swamp
7x Island

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Grim Monolith
1x Time Vault

4x Accumulated Knowledge
4x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
3x Stasis
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Timetwister
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Tinker
4x Lodestone Myr

Card Analysis

Stasis- For those people who wanna kill the Lodestone Myr, Plan B.
Mana Drain- Free Lodestone Myr :lol:
Lodestone Myr- The Killer
Time Vault- The ability to untap itself at the cost of a turn is heavy but if you win  Wink .

Other cards for consideration

Sphere of Resistance
Fact or Fiction

It has been going off quite regularly on turn 3 and 4. Whole point is to untap the Time Vault and pump up the Lodestone Myr to killing Damage and if the destroy the Lodestone either you have counter back up or a Stasis in play even though you probably lost already. To me it just seems like a Tog version or plays like it. I'm still editing the deck but thought to gain insight from other people for stuff I might have overlooked.
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colder
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2004, 09:44:11 am »

This is actually one of the more interesting decks I've ever seen.  I'm really impressed by the combo pieces too.  I've got a few questions for you:

1) How easy is it to recover from something as stupid as say, Fog (or Fog-type effect)?

2) Why not more Time Vaults?  Is there some reason you wouldn't want to use more in the deck, or do you think one is enough?  (As it is, since this IS partly a combo-deck, so I would figure that more copies of a simple combo-piece would be better - it's not like Time Vault is restricted or anything, after all.)

3) Would this deck function better if it were tuned more towards being a Stasis deck, rather than using Stasis as a backup?  Having Stasis as a backup plan is nice and all, but (assuming that they thwart your attack), they'll still have an assload of turns to draw, get more permanents in play, and quite probably rock you.

I'm going to toy around with your concept for a bit, see if I can come up with something else.  Good job though!   Smile
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leviat
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2004, 10:47:10 am »

You have to be very careful with a deck like, due to the drawback of the combo misfiring on you. (I've recently played a similar deck at Waterbury and got to take 26 turns in a row).

I would strongly recommend trying out a black splash. It allows you Duress, which is key to making sure your combo goes off, as well as tutors which will get you the missing components.

I'm also wondering why you have Stasis in there? As far as I can tell, you have no way of getting around your own Stasis and without something like [card]Root Maze[/card] or [card]Kismet[/card], you can't even really lock your opponent down with Stasis / Timevault.

I think it's a bad idea, but if you did decide to make this more Stasis-like and add in Kismet, at least you can get [card]Orims Chant[/card] to ensure your kill can go off safely.
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colder
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2004, 11:57:43 am »

OK, I've been thinking about it for a bit, and here's a few more ideas I've come up with.

1) Since you should be budgeting for the possibility that you'll be losing a LOT of turns, you could try using some negative global effects to disrupt or severely disable your opponent during their turns.  Stasis is a nice try, but I think something like Smokestack would be far more damaging.  I'm sure there's other disruptive global spells that you could take advantage of, but none come to mind at the moment.

2) If you splash white into this, you can take advantage of (1) Orim's Chant (as per leviat's suggestion), or (2) Swords To Plowshares.  Skip a ridiculous amount of turns to make a ridiculously large creature, then STP it should the attack go wrong.  At least you can grab a draw, unless your opponent can pull off infinite combos as well.
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2004, 12:14:57 pm »

Quote
2) If you splash white into this, you can take advantage of (1) Orim's Chant (as per leviat's suggestion), or (2) Swords To Plowshares. Skip a ridiculous amount of turns to make a ridiculously large creature, then STP it should the attack go wrong. At least you can grab a draw, unless your opponent can pull off infinite combos as well.

Although you certainly wouldn't want to gamble your game on this, it's an excellent idea. What's even better is that you'll probably still win the game as your opponent ends up decking themselves in an attempt to deal incredible amounts of damage.

If you consider the Type-1 metagame, there are actually very few decks that can kill an opponent with one billion life. Dragon is the only popular deck that I can think off the top of my head. I would strongly suggest trying the white splash (StoP, Orim, EnlightTutor) and giving up Stasis altogether. Plus white will strengthen your sideboard for games two and three.

Not to turn this into a casual deck, but you could even play something techy like [card]Diamond Valley[/card]. Mr. Green
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colder
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2004, 03:11:53 pm »

Alright, here's my kick at the can.

4x Lodestone Myr
4x Time Vault
4x Orim's Chant

2x Swords To Plowshares
2x Isochron Scepter

4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain
2x Disenchant
2x Stifle

1x Ancestral Recall
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Tinker
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Timetwister

5x Moxes
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Tundra
4x Adarkar Wastes
8x Island
3x Plains

Most of this is completely off the top of my head, but I think it has more potential for success.  Instead of focusing so much on trying to search super-intently on finding the combo pieces, I toned down the search elements of your deck and instead decided to install some threatening stuff in this deck while waiting for a kill.  Tutors aren't in here, nor AK, Impulse, Intuition, etc etc etc - your combo is a simple one, and one that's easily solidified with the right tech.  You'll notice I decided upon 4 Time Vaults - Time Vault can be sucky, yes, but assuming you can take advantage of some Orim's Chants, Time Vaults might be a nice way to get some extra turns for searches.  And of course, let's not forget the possibility of putting Orim's Chant on a stick.

The rest of this build looks pretty control-ish - BBS plus the regular goodness.  Unfortunately, I lack any alternate win conditions - you'll be relying on your wits unless you pull the combo pieces out quick.

I find myself on the fence concerning the Disenchants and Stifles - nice cards, but I find myself wondering if there isn't some better tech I could include.
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2004, 03:19:29 pm »

Why are you useing adakar waists over flooded strands?
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2004, 03:23:32 pm »

Have you seen the Darksteel spoilers? Trinisphere would easily fit in here-- the Lodestone shuts it down if you need more gas or to fire off a kill. Howling Mine, Winter Orb and Static Orb also get shut down by tapping. It might do well to consider these options.
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2004, 03:37:12 pm »

Flurp: no good reason.  I guess it would depend on what you prefer.  Both lands have their pros & cons, but in hindsight I think that fetchlands would do well - deck thinning (if you believe in that sorta thing), plus if you get a Timetwister off, you can re-use the fetches.  The good thing about Adarkar Wastes is that they're a land NOW, plus they can still be used for 1 colorless in a pinch.  Fetches can also be Stifle'd - painlands can't.
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Jester
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2004, 08:23:03 pm »

Duress was in the deck it may go back in later, but I found I would hold on to it to use when I was ready to go off, I want them to respond to my threat. Playing white is probably the way to go with Orim's Chant or Abeyance for the cantrip. I had Stasis in because I remember playing Chronotog with it and this uses  the same idea. Stasis is expendable. Yes, it shrivels up and dies when they destroy the Lodestone Myr, gaining the life is going hopefully deck the opponent out. Tainted Pact is another card I have tested it hasn't hurt nor helped so far.
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