[Discussion] Vengeur Masque

[Jamino]

Ok, this is a discussion on a deck that I definately think can be a force to be reckoned with in todays average metagame consisting in big parts of:
Landstill, Dragon, Oshowa Stompy, Workshop decks, and Variations of TPS. This of course may not be the same everywhere it is just what I have seen over the past few weeks/months.

Vengeur has a fairly good game vs just about all of those with the exception of Dragon and TPS which can sometimes cause a problem befor side.

This is a deck that should own just about any aggro as your dudes are bigger then theres and keep on coming back. They beat you for 2-3 while you are smashing them for 12 or simply kill them with a phage.

Control is a fine matchup, just about every single one of your spells is a must counter. Survivals, Mask, Shapeshifters, all will end a game quikly and you have your own counters to force through that important mask/survival.

The list I want to look at in particualy is simply UG. Right now, I have found back to basics to be a force and it is game vs so many decks in some cases even more so then blood moon. Landstill practically scoops to a well placed Back to Basics and it helps vs dragon in my experience. They cant pitch as many lands to bazar and they cant even use bazzar more then once. If dragon really does cause that much of a problem and you can handle them enough with Ground Seals, Rootmaze should finish the job, and not give you very much of a problem with all your birds and rangers.

Well this is a discussion, so do what you should and DISCUSS!

[skecreatoR]

I haven't got the cards to build masque, and probably never will. But i seen it play, and I know how powerful the deck can be.

After taking a few months of I think it is coming back, hard. the Masque's are bloody expensive, so it will never be able to be pulled budget, but whether it can be pulled budget or not, isn't really that interesting.

I think the problem is that it somehow easily sometimes can recieve bunch of hate, and it might be really, really tough to get around. That have been my main issue with the deck in general, it sometimes take enourmous hits from discard or well located manadrains that it might be hard to recover. The combo is fast and powerfull enough, so the main issue is to become more hate resilient, imo.

How can that be done? The current lists I have seen is U/G, a powerfull disruption base with both Naturalizes and variable counterspells, even Cunning Wish to fetch whatever you need. But how come yet that the deck so easily becomes disrupted.. That is probably where most of the work should be located. Am i totally wrong?

[BreathWeapon]

Damping Matrix is a real pain in the ass for Mask decks and STP is back with a vengeance. While I like the idea of playing LD in Mask by using U/G with B2B and Stifle, circumventing the big hate is incredibly difficult to do. The inclusion of Red just seems like a necessary evil for R&R.

[Vood]

I've been playing survival mask for a while and I still think it's one of the best deck out there. It is surely one of the most resilient deck i've played with. A typical build will always have 11 *Must* counter threats (Mask, Shapeshifter and Survival), making it hard for any deck to establish solid disruption.

I've runned this deck at the latest mana drain open and I was 4-1 until I lost to myself. I had a sylvan safekeeper on board along with 2 dreadnoughts against sligh. But he killed me with 2 x price of progress and fireblast. Stupidly enough, I didn't sac my dual lands to the safekeeper (He's supposed to protect my creatures, not me!). Anyway, I think the safekeeper is an excellent addition to this deck. First matchup was against oshawa stompy, but what can rootwallas do against 12/12 trampling dreadnoughts!

the other defeat was against U/R Landstill (Is there a more boring deck?).

The current build of dragon (ambassador laquatus) are easily being taken care of by gaea's blessing. I wonder why people don't have one in their sideboard, since it's a passive solution to dragon.

[Hi-Val]

I tested a U/G/W version against the Litmus test of the format, Keeper. It has a larger bomb base (Meddling Mage for FoW/Mana Drain/StP/Fire/Ice=GG) but I ran into a central problem. Masque does not have any real card-drawing to speak of. It runs Survivals, Ancestral and sometimes Sylvan Library with Brainstorm as well. Other decks, especially Tog and friends, just plain outdraw the deck. I ran into the problem that you usually need to have the win in your hand when you start and not get anything countered.

Masque's mana base has always been the most fragile part. When playing against Keeper and other disruption decks, it is essential to resolve and keep a Ranger on the table or you get spanked.

The deck is hellapowerful otherwise though.

[carl]

Good control decks (at least keeper played by a good player) are hard to beat unless you put serious pressure in the early game. This is because they outdraw you.
Aggro is not a problem.
Combo is, because they are faster than you.
That's why I now run U/G/r with Blood Moon in the sideboard.

Damping Matrix is somewhat annoying, but it doesn't prevent you from winning (play a Shapeshifter, discard Phage with Survival).

There are 3 difficult things with this deck: rules knowledge, when to mulligan and how to sideboard.

@skecreatoR:
There is no hate that completely shut down the deck, that's actually one of its strength.

it sometimes take enourmous hits from discard or well located manadrains

Discard is no problem: Brainstorm, Misdirection and Survival are more than enough to fight it.
Permission is something different, but VM has 6 counters itself and 11 must-counters, so it's a matter of card-drawing, not counters per se.

Cunning Wish has nothing to do in this deck, it's not a control deck.

Am i totally wrong?

IMHO, yes, you are.

@Jamino:

I haven't tested Root Maze. How is it working for you?
Against what do you sideboard them in?

vs dragon, I put a Gaea's Blessing, as they need Ancestral in their hand or a Compulsion on the table before going off. This buys you enough time. Moreover, it's only one slot in your sideboard and you don't need to draw it.

What I have found annoying is artifact hate (due to the powerful workshop decks and Isochron Scepter). Sylvan Safekeeper is a good solution as mentioned. Goblin Welder is worse than before since the Dec, 1 erratum.

Another problem card is Pernicious Deed.

I've runned this deck at the latest mana drain open and I was 4-1 until I lost to myself.

Where is your report?