Nether Void updates

[slycaptainfox]

I don't know what I would do without at least 3 planar voids in my SB at all times!

In my environment people play survival, fruity pebbles, dragon.dec,TnT, FEB, gro-a-tog etc.

How do you guys get by with 0-1 graveyard hate cards such as crypt?

what would you do if you went up against any of these decks without hate, roll-over and die?

(Just wondering)

It might just be my environment but if I didn't have planar voids I would get steam-rolled every tournament I went to
unless I got all aggro match-ups (nearly impossible).

[Arthur King]

Alivia, My Lover
Land
8 Swamp
4 Bayou
3 Llanowar Wastes
3 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
   
Creatures
3 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Specter
   
Disruption
3 Nether Void
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
 
Removal
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Diabolic Edict
   
Broken/Tutoring
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Regrowth
   
Acceleration
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
   
SB!
3 Dystopia
3 Masticore
3 Spinning Darkness
2 Tormod's crypt
1 Planar Void
2 Choke
1 Diabolic/Naturalize

well this is what i have after a large amount of discussing
im still debating the inclusion of a 61st card, dustbowl
but i think green is definately good

Quote If Deed is used, should Negators be used in liu of Shades ? I propose this question not purely because Neagators are 3 CC, but - as stated before - Deeds are extremely mana intesnsive...

yes i play negators over shades
uh the 3cc makes a difference vs sligh, and stompy first of all, and secondly, i was playing nausea as a sb option for a long time so i took the negator

@jaco,
hoping you read my post, i really wanna know how the fetches are playing for you
the entire deck actually

[Rico Suave]

The idea is that mono-black Void has all the necessary tools to compete.  While it doesn't have Deed, it also doesn't get mana-screwed by EVERY deck that runs Wastelands.

Zherbus, just reviewing the usefulness of things, how often do you use Spinning Darkness to good effect?  Sligh, mostly, but do you even bring in Masticore during that match?

[Zherbus]

I use them in just about every aggro matchup, and its never been anything but an allstar for me. Hell, my Void has taken down such champs as White Weenie (a hard matchup for black), Sligh, Zoo, and Stacker based on that one card or comboned with Masticore.

[Cavalry19D]

Arthur King:

I noticed that you run 28 Mana Sources. In your experience, do you think that's a little light due to the fact that you've exposed your MB to more Non-Basic Hate with the inclusion of green ? Even the Mono-Black version runs 30.

I also would like to ask why you only run 3 Wastelands ? Mana denial is one of the keys to victory. Is this a metagame choice ?

You also run 4 Deeds AND an Edict. I would think that maybe a little much. This makes me believe you play in a heavy aggro environment, yet you don't play a 4th Mishra's factory.


** and although it seems logical to move towards Negators, 3 CC also hurts the explosive nature of the deck. One extra swing of your fattie becuase you were able to cast it a turn earlier can really hurt. And under Void, 1 Mana can mean alot.

Just some thoughts.

[Rico Suave]

So how do you board vs. sligh?

-4 Duress
-1 Necro
+1 Keg
+4 SpinningD

I can't see what you'd cut for Core that isn't already good.

And against Zoo, it's a similar situation.  There they oftentimes have untargettable's too.

WW usually has tons of pro:black critters, so SD isn't as good there although it is still useful.  What do you cut though?  I find that I have more than enough for it, especially with Dystopia.

Blue-based aggro SD is very good against while you have things to SB out.  Fish, for example.  That's about the only example I can think of.

What I'm saying is that I feel Core+SD is overkill in those aggro matches, but still lacking against TnT/Stacker.  That's unless of course you're siding something which I'm just not seeing.

[the Luke]

I like that Masticore can just win at times versus Aggro.

Against Sligh
(+1 Powder Keg +4 Spinning Darkness)
+3 Masticore
(-1 Necropotence -4 Duress)
-1 Wasteland -1 Sinkhole -1 Yawgmoth's Will (Hypnotic Specter)

I should probably justify why I'm boarding out Yawg's Win.
Basically, it has negative synergy with both Spinning Darkness and Nether Void, and the strategy is to play Spinning Darkness and Nether Void ASAP.

Wastelands are just colourless mana, and Sinkhole is because it isn't likely to be as effective given the plethora of one-drops in Sligh.

[Rico Suave]

I find that Sinkhole is one of my best spells against sligh, especially when I'm using Nether Void in the same deck.  It's not like it's even a mediocre card in the sligh match-up, Sinkhole just rocks against sligh.

Imagine for a second that you're using this SB:

1 Powder Keg
3 Dystopia
4 Masticore
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Planar Void

Since you're not siding in Spinning Darkness, there isn't a reason to side out Will.

Now what can you SB out against sligh?
-1 Necro
-4 Duress

in:
+1 Powder Keg
+4 Masticore

Now really, do you want to side out Wastelands?  I guess you could if you really wanted to, but remember that you'll be clinging to every bit of mana you can get post-Void.  Not only that, but you can hit opposing Wastelands too for additional mana-denial and to clear the way for Mishras.  At the very least it provides colorless mana even pre-Void.  Not a bad card by any means.  

While the deck won't have as much spot-removal, it does still have 4 Core+4 Keg+good blockers, along with Void to stop the burn.  In all honesty, I'm not scared of that match at all.  What else would you side out to bring in everything anyway?

On the other hand, you get excellent options against TnT.  First turn Planar Void is a very good way to start a game, IMO.  

Here's what I do against TnT:
-3 Keg
-1 Necro
-4 Duress
-3 Void

in:
+4 Masticore
+4 Diabolic Edict
+3 Planar Void

On top of that you've got a solid card against any graveyard-based deck, including many combo decks (which are difficult matches as well).  

I know I'm beating this into the ground, but does it make sense to forego the extra SB slots when you don't have anything else bad to SB out for those slots?

[MarkPharaoh]

Against Sligh I usually take out my discard before touching anything else in my deck.  Sidboarding I usually do:

-4 Duress
-4 Hymn
-1 Yawg

+4 Spinning
+3 Masticore
+2 Diabolic Edict/Smother (depending what I see that day)

My Sideboard is in flux but at the moment I use:
4 Spinning
3 Masticore
1 Tormod's
3 Smother, Edict if Morphling's are present
3 Dystopia
1 Necro

I bring in Smother's because the Sligh decks here run BL.

[Rico Suave]

Hymn is a good card, even against sligh.

It's not like sligh can empty it's hand on turn 2, which is when you'd be casting it.  Combined with your landkill it makes it such that the opponent can't cast their spells, providing targets for Hymn.  Nether Void makes more targets for Hymn.  Having a Keg on the table means your opponent won't want to overextend, so they keep creatures in hand.  Hymn nails those.

My point in SB'ing is that I don't take out cards which are perfectly fine.  Hymn is perfectly fine.  Why take it out?

[MarkPharaoh]

I take out Hymn's because I don't drop Void early because if I don't have a lead and I drop it, I usually don't get into the lead.  The versions of Sligh here are more creature heavy and run crappier burn spells, hell even one version here runs Shocks and Firebolts so Hymn's aren't as good since they use 2 damage burn spells.  Don't get me wrong Hymn's are great but I need the creature removal, mainly for the Ball Lightnings and after Hymn 1 and possibly Hymn 2 they are useless because after Void hits you won't use them even if they have cards in their hand, you'd want to pump your Shade and activate your Factories.

[Arthur King]

Quote Arthur King:

I noticed that you run 28 Mana Sources. In your experience, do you think that's a little light due to the fact that you've exposed your MB to more Non-Basic Hate with the inclusion of green ? Even the Mono-Black version runs 30.

I also would like to ask why you only run 3 Wastelands ? Mana denial is one of the keys to victory. Is this a metagame choice ?

You also run 4 Deeds AND an Edict. I would think that maybe a little much. This makes me believe you play in a heavy aggro environment, yet you don't play a 4th Mishra's factory.

The mana seems to be doing ok
I’ve been playing this deck a lot recently and I’ve been pretty consistent with the draws, color screw is rare but by far, certainly not nonexistent
4 deeds and an edict
Yup
I feel that occasionally if someone drops something sick second turn, id occasionally like having an edict just in case
No its not because I have extra aggro in my environment
But just as a backup for some broken creature plays like say dreadnaught

The point about the wastelands and the factories
I didn’t want to tip either one
I found that I needed both equally, the wastelands and then factories are both equally needed and I dint want to flood my deck with colorless mana
So it stays at 3 apiece
It seems to be working really well as I’ve said

@the topic at hand
sb for sligh?
-3 negator
+3 masticore
-1 necro
-1 yawgmoth's will
-1 duress
+3 spinning darkness

isnt this enough?
I guess occasionally id take out another duress for an edict
But the above I feel is fine

@MarkPharaoh
I still don’t understand the exclusion of the hymns
It’s just because you need the space for more removal?
Why cant masticore deal with all of those problems?
Ping the ball lightning and its done, and for that matter all of sligh's creatures
And it regenerates making all their burn pretty damn useless

i guess the point about how after void you would rather be pumping shades and factories, but I guess that’s why I’m playing negators...

[-CF-]

On the Spinning Darkness vs Contagion issue: Contagion is A MILLION TIMES BETTER. It is less conditional and can take out 2 threats against sligh - which is usually better than lifegain. It will also kill or neutralize some common type 1 creatures that Spinning Darkness won't kill:
Psychatog
Su-Chi
Masticore
Nantuko Shade

Also, if you spread the counters it can't be misdirected. Sure, this is unlikely, but can be crucial. It will also, most oftenly, be as good an answer to Negator as Darkness is.

If you want targeted removal, Contagion is the card. I've played it in every legal, black SB since Alliances with no regrets.

--
Chris\n\n

[Arthur King]

I’m not sure, I’ve never played with contagion to tell you that it’s worse
But you’ve never been in the situation that you would rather have just 2 or 3 more life to win the game?
On quite a few occasions when I’m playing sligh
It’s a stalemate, I have 2 factories, and he has 2 pups
We’re sitting staring at each other
I have the obvious upper hand but I’m at 1 or 2 more life, total burn range
And I just wish that he hadn’t topdecked that bolt
Or I had a few more points of life

[the Luke]

I was playtesting my Void against (goblin) Sligh with the Spinning Darkness slot being "blank"... that is I could choose whether the card was Spinning D or Contagion where necessary. I never chose the card to be a Spinning D. Against Sligh, I think killing the extra creature just beats out Spinning Darkness. And then there's the issue of Psychatog, Shade, etc. I like Contagion better.