Evil Parfait

[K-Run]

This is what I'm tinkering with right now. I thought you might like to see it.

        Evil Parfait - July 19th, 2003

       - maindeck -

        10 Plains
        1 Swamp
        2 Scrubland
        1 Plateau
        1 Serra's Sanctum
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Wasteland
        1 Desert
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Tormod's Crypt
        2 Claws of Gix
        1 Ivory Tower
        1 Replenish
        2 Argivian Find
        3 Duress
        1 Seal of Cleansing
        1 Aura of Silence
        1 Moat
        1 Humility
        2 Sacred Mesa
        1 Story Circle
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Balance
        4 Scroll Rack
        3 Land Tax
        2 Tithe
        1 Eternal Dragon
        1 Demonic Tutor
        1 Skeletal Scrying
        1 Academy Rector

        - sideboard -

        3 Tormod's Crypt
        3 Abolish
        2 Sacred Ground
        1 Viashino Heretic
        1 Wrath of God
        1 Aura Fracture
        1 Enlightened Tutor
        1 Replenish
        1 Ruination
        1 Ivory Mask


This is my latest test version. I've won 2 consecutive tourneys with it.\n\n

[iceman]

Why no Moat? Wasn't it you who suggested that it would be a good idea for the deck? I'm not saying I'm very experienced with Parfait (which I'm very much not), but I've seen the deck play out many times and it seemed as though Moat was a key element in winning many games. I know there've been threads about this already, sorry for bringing up an old topic.

[K-Run]

I'm still playing Moat... in the sideboard. Humility is just better at killing aggro decks and control decks.

[Magimaster]

ehrm....

4x Scroll Rack
3x Land Tax


typo? Do you mean it the other way around?

[K-Run]

No. Actually, it's :

4 Scroll Rack
3 Land Tax
3 Tithe

Land Tax is nice and everything, but ask to anyone around here : who counters Tax? No one, except in some situations. Scroll Rack, on the other hand, is systematicly countered. Adding more Racks and more shuffling should allow you to get Land Tax anyways.

[PsychoCid]

Especially given the basic Swamp, which probably belongs if you intend on running 3 of such a cheap, aggressive card as Duress, I highly disagree with the choice to (test) cut(ting) one Land Tax, even if you have some extra help in Tithe.  As long as you're going to be spending so many slots on this, anyway, I see little to no reason not to run 4 Tax 2 Tithe.

I agree, to an extent, about the Scroll Rack being a juicy counter target, and that's precisely the reason I never liked Parfait builds that ran less than 3 of them.  4 may or may not be the route to go, so good luck with that, in testing.

Blood Moon seems nice in the environment right now, so why is the count minimal?  I think it better to use Duress to -add- upon the hate, not replace.

Lastly, about Duress itself, it clearly takes the slot that Orim's Chant previously fulfilled.  3 Duress over 4 Chant should quite clearly be a downgrade against aggro, I think, so I'm not going to bother with explaining the merits of such cards in that area.  Versus control, however, if you're trying to force something important through, won't either do?  If Chant resolves, you're free to do whatever you wish.  If Duress resolves, you get some info and hopefully steal a very key card, but this may not force an item through if they have another counter ready.  Conversely, if either of Duress/Chant are countered, themselves, you've eliminated one counter from the hand of your opponent and they still may or may not have another one ready for whatever is to come.  What Duress does offer that Chant doesn't is the ability to take care of a card for rounds to come, as well--ie, nab a counter now, and it won't be there the next time you want to force something through.  Lastly comes combo, where Duress could buy you a LOT of time, whereas Chant will buy you about a turn, usually.  Can you elaborate about your theories (since you likely have not gotten a lot of testing in yet) about the gain in footing when playing combo and a bit when playing control versus the loss of footing versus aggro?

After a few more seconds of consideration, I'd like to add that, since a lot of aggro(-control) in today's environment consists of Groatog and TnT, Duress can still hit some nice targets.  Of course, my next thought was that the likelihood of drawing a Duress and a black mana source early enough to steal TnT's Survival was not high, -then- I came back around to thinking the Tithe is a lot quicker at grabbing that mana than Tax is.  So perhaps such issues aren't very clear cut  (This is precisely why I hate Parfait.  It requires too much thinking for too little result. )\n\n

[TracerBullet]

Why no Blood Moon main and only 1 in the SB?  It seems rather amazing in the current metagame.

[Rico Suave]

Against control, Duress is amazing at nailing nasty spells such as Mind Twist, Aura Fracture, Yawgmoth's Will, and big X spells.

In other words, it solves some of the problem of "Parfait can't do anything about big control spells".

[K-Run]

In the right matchup, Blood Moon is amazing. That's why I keep one my my sideboard.

I think I have enough stuff maindeck to beat most decks. I added anti-control elements but I can't continue to add stuff without weakening other matchups.

I'm not saying this is a definitive decklist either.

[jshields]

i have been running red and black in parfait also.  a couple of cards i thought i would point out that i have done well with are:

1.  Mind Twist - this is actually decent in my metagame as a secondary hand control source to balance.

2.  Zombie Infestation ((SB)) - tends to do well against control and also, this is abusable using land tax if need be.  picture it - a few 2/2 tokens per turn against the ever so scary tog/keeper build.  at this point however, i feel that although its good, it needs further testing.

Other ideas that i have yet to test:

1.  Crumbling Sanctuary - this seems good on paper against aggro decks as another possible milling source with the mesa vs aggro and control decks

2.  price of glory - i would love to test this against a blue control deck as it seems fun on paper for land destruction

3.  temporal aperture - may work okay as an unusual fetch-a- card source that allows you to put stuff into play (well at random) for 5 and costs 2 to cast.


last, i have questions for you , k-run

1.  why run 3 tax, 3 tithe if you really have enough land searching tools in 4 tax alone?

2.  along those same lines, why the duals?  they are not taxable and become mountains when blood moon hits

3.  how easily can you cast Duress?  have you thought about Cabal Therapy here?

[K-Run]

Quote 1.  why run 3 tax, 3 tithe if you really have enough land searching tools in 4 tax alone?

Actually, Land Tax is rather conditionnal in the current metagame, especially vs aggro and aggro-control. Tithe will ALWAYS fetch me a land and shuffle my library.

Quote 2.  along those same lines, why the duals?  they are not taxable and become mountains when blood moon hits

They're Tithable. I don't want too many non-white producing lands either.

Quote 3.  how easily can you cast Duress?  have you thought about Cabal Therapy here?

I have a few sources of black mana : Swamp, Scrubland, Mox Diamond, Black Lotus. Duress should get a card everytime I cast it. I don't know about Therapy; I don't like to sacrifice Pegasi more than during the upkeep.

[theorigamist]

What are your thoughts on Mind Twist?  Also, is Duress all that much better than Orim's Chant (or better at all) that you have now moved to 3 colors?

[Luc, Use The Force]

@ theorigamist:

I playtested about 10 - 15 games against K-Run and this version of Parfait.

I was the control player (adapted moxless   Keeper if we can call it that way) and I can confirm that Duress is A LOT more annoying than Chant.

Against Parfait, you often win the game simply by resolving a Mind Twist, and there is nothing the Parfait player can do against it... Duress is a solution to this problem. Duress is also another good solution against those nasty buyback spells (in addition to the 2 Claws).

However, I think that the now popular Brainstorm can counter the new Parfait strategy, if the Blue mage knows the new Parfait tech

[Os-Vegeta]

K-Run,

Looking at your proposed build, I have a few questions.  

My first question, which is really just echoing Cid's comments and questions on Duress, is if Duress is really that much of an improvement over Orim's Chant.  I'm seeing Duress causing potential damage in the control and combo matchups, but, like Cid said, Orim's Chant does give more of an advantage in the aggro matchup. Do you think it would be plausible to reconfigure the build to run 3 Chant and 3 Duress? (If you would like to see how I'm configuring this, I'd prefer you to send me a PM, as I'm not sure if posting a decklist on here would be the best thing.)  Like Cid mentioned - Shouldn't Duress really be adding to the hate instead of replacing it?

My second question deals with Blood Moon.  I know you know that Blood Moon is a great weapon, as you have one in the side.  However, what I'm not understanding is why you only have one in the whole deck, being one in the sideboard.  With quite a few decks anymore that can be disrupted by Blood Moon (Keeper, GAT, Hulk Smash to name a few), wouldn't it be better to run at least one maindeck and one to two in the sideboard?  

My third and final question is why did you decide to cut the cards you did for Tithe?  

Overall, I do like the idea of running Duress for hand disruption and also the idea of running Tithe to fetch lands earlier, especially dual mana sources.  After you've finished with your testing, I would be very interested to see your results.

[K-Run]

Quote What are your thoughts on Mind Twist?

It's inferior to Duress.

a) It's more expensive to cast.
b) It's a one-time effect. Opponent can recover rather easily.
c) It's Misdirectionable.

Quote My first question, which is really just echoing Cid's comments and questions on Duress, is if Duress is really that much of an improvement over Orim's Chant.

It is. I agree it's weaker vs Aggro, but that was our best matchup anyway...

Quote Do you think it would be plausible to reconfigure the build to run 3 Chant and 3 Duress?

It's not necessary. That reminds me of the time when Orim's Chant appeared on the Planeshift spoilers. Everybody was saying (me included) : "Woo hoo! Now we can play 8 Abeyances!" Then I figured out having counter-counters means nothing if you don't have stuff to put into play afterwards. Especially when a single permanent like Aura Fracture just owns you and makes your stuff useless.

Quote With quite a few decks anymore that can be disrupted by Blood Moon (Keeper, GAT, Hulk Smash to name a few), wouldn't it be better to run at least one maindeck and one to two in the sideboard?

Those decks know they have a weakness vs the Moon. They all pack stuff to deal with it. Parfait seems too slow to take advantage of the temporary lock. Still, I keep one in my sideboard because sometimes it just wins. As always, it's a metagame call.

Quote My third and final question is why did you decide to cut the cards you did for Tithe?

I felt the deck was too easily hosed by non-permanent spells. Duresses were needed. They took the Chants' slots. To play Duress reliably, you need a land tutoring ability less conditional than Land Tax. Thus Tithe. With additionnal shufflers, you can max out the Scroll Rack number. With 4 Scroll Racks, you can remove horrible Enlightened Tutor. I decided to cut Blood Moon from the main deck since it was a bit more conditionnal in my meta.

[Aroxisis]

K-Run is there a way you can budgetize the decklisting for people who don't own power or does this version of parfait need to be powered to work?

[K-Run]

Quote K-Run is there a way you can budgetize the decklisting for people who don't own power or does this version of parfait need to be powered to work?

I guess you can play Mana Crypt, Lotus Petal, Blood Moon...

Quote I maintain my assertion that Parfait is the most popular deck t1 deck in the US outside of sligh.

Heh, funny since nobody uses it around here.

[Os-Vegeta]

Quote Those decks know they have a weakness vs the Moon. They all pack stuff to deal with it. Parfait seems too slow to take advantage of the temporary lock. Still, I keep one in my sideboard because sometimes it just wins. As always, it's a metagame call.

Yes, it's true that these decks do pack the stuff to deal with it, but if you look at Morefling's current build and one of his last Eindhoven tourney reports, Parfait does have the tools and has utilized such tools in attempts to stand up to the enchantment removal.  

I'm not sure if I agree with you on whether or not Parfait really is too slow to take advantage of the temporary lock.  In some cases, like in the Keeper matchup, I can see where you're coming from with this, as it really isn't a permanent lock due to the one to two Islands it runs.  However, in the case of Grow-A-Tog, I'm not so sure.  If a Blood Moon makes it to the table and there's no jewelry in sight to help in wishing for Naturalize (or if it was already wished for, just casting Naturalize), a nice window of opportunity is open to drop a Mesa and pound with Pegasi.  

Looking at your build, however, I'm seeing where you would only just want to side the Blood Moon, especially since you're running only one Replenish maindeck.  You're right though - it is really a metagame call.

Quote With 4 Scroll Racks, you can remove horrible Enlightened Tutor.

That's something I hadn't considered, and I'm starting to like this idea of 4 Scroll Racks.  One question I have for you has to deal with testing tutors.  When you were constructing Evil Parfait, did you consider Demonic Tutor as an option?  I'm curious about this, as I'm wondering as to whether or not the addition of Demonic Tutor to Parfait would really be beneficial.  Looking at all the shuffle effects you're running, though, it seems to me that the extra 1 CC reusable Scroll Rack really could be more useful, especially with its vast digging capabilities, than the two CC  (having one mana being black, which may not be constantly available) one-time-use Demonic Tutor.

Quote This thread will be 5 pages long within 5 days.  

Would you expect anything less?  

[PsychoCid]

Quote It is. I agree it's weaker vs Aggro, but that was our best matchup anyway...

I could present the argument that I've heard every type of aggro player except those that play Sligh brag that the Parfait matchup is not an issue, but Parfait is a bitch to play.

I think far too many people play this deck poorly.  It's time you present an updated article on it about getting down and dirty with today's environment, Raph.

[theorigamist]

You should write an 80-article set a la Rakso, except it will be about Parfait.

I see your point about Duress, and I am a fool.

I still think Mind Twist would be a good card.  Worst case scenario, you toss it back in the deck with Scroll Rack.  But I think as people think Misdirection is so powerful, they'll stop using easily Misdirectable spells (like how Keeper is using Future Sight over Braingeyser), and then people will start to think Misdirection is weaker, and not use them in 4s.

Edit:  This is the third day the thread's up, but only the second page.  We need to pick up the pace.

[K-Run]

Quote When you were constructing Evil Parfait, did you consider Demonic Tutor as an option?

I tried it but realized I prefered a 60-card deck over a 59-card one. What I mean is : I prefer to have 4 copies of a card rather than 3 copies and a Tutor. Agreed, there's no loss of card with Demonic, but the tutor never gets countered. That means running Demonic Tutor vs blue-based control nets them 1 counter as they save the one they would've used on the 4th copy. I know this is a very subtle reason to not run such a good card, but if you add the potential mana problem, you can clearly see that an additional Scroll Rack and the sheer redundancy of the deck is enough efficient tutoring by itself.

[Rico Suave]

What about Demonic over another slot?  Maybe Seal of Cleansing?

EDIT-It's not like Seal is a must-counter against control.  If you don't have Scroll out, you can't shuffle it away either.  If you do have Scroll...well why not go on to win.

[K-Run]

I added Seal to speed up the deck. Now I would have to spend a turn playing Demonic (given that I have a black mana available), then the Seal.

I don't know, right now I think having 3 disenchant effects is alright. But yes, I could test a Demonic over a Seal and see what happens...

[Master Tap]

Quote This thread will be 5 pages long within 5 days.  

Sadly this hasent hapened but I still play parfait    

K-Run how has the demonic been working? I currently play a W/r version with bloodmoons main, but I must admit I have seen some interesting concepts in this version and have been thinkig about working the 2 together. Do you think this would be possible with the use of mox diamond 1 mountain 1 swamp along with usage of gemstone mines?

I aplaude the usage of a 4th scroll rack which imo is needed because it is the more dangerious part of the draw engine.  You mentioned cutting the enlightened tutor for it how has that been effecting the over all "find the bullet" stratagy that parfait employs?

[VegasJake]

Have you thought about the implications of casting Demonic for the LoA?  If you do this once, it might make control at least think about countering the Tutor.

[K-Run]

Quote K-Run how has the demonic been working? I currently play a W/r version with bloodmoons main, but I must admit I have seen some interesting concepts in this version and have been thinkig about working the 2 together. Do you think this would be possible with the use of mox diamond 1 mountain 1 swamp along with usage of gemstone mines?

I'd rather use a Scrubland, a Plateau and a Swamp. At least you can fetch the duals with Tithe. I'm still unsure about Lotus Petal. In a 3-color version, I think it would be very good, but I'm still afraid of Misdirections retargeting Finds to this.

Quote I aplaude the usage of a 4th scroll rack which imo is needed because it is the more dangerious part of the draw engine.  You mentioned cutting the enlightened tutor for it how has that been effecting the over all "find the bullet" stratagy that parfait employs?

As I said earlier, I think 4 Scroll Racks + lots of shuffling is enough efficient tutoring.

Quote Have you thought about the implications of casting Demonic for the LoA?  If you do this once, it might make control at least think about countering the Tutor.

Yes I did. I'm going to cut a Tithe to use Demonic Tutor. I was just reluctant to cut a must-counter to add it. I might use it to get things that most people won't counter, like artifact mana, Duress, lands... I'll need to test.

[brianb]

If I want to (and can) power this version up, should I run mox jet (and maybe even ruby)?  The slight speed boost seems worth losing a white mana source.  It's a close call though...

[brianb]

Also, can someone discuss the relative merits of claws of gix with zorb?  I've always used zorb.  It seems that paying mana to sacrifice would be annoying early on when you're trying to kill land in order to use tax.  And 2 life > 1 life.  Do game situations often come up where you really want to sack other permanents?

[Kheoinn]

Claws of Gix is used to counter Allay. When Allay is cast, sacrificing the targetted permanent means the spell fizzles, which means they can't buy it back any more.

Otherwise, yes, Zuran Orb would definitely be better, but no one wants to risk dying to Allay.

[K-Run]

brianb :

Yes, I think a Mox Jet is getting more and more appealing. Keep me informed about how it affects the mana base.\n\n