Artifact Lands

[Solaran_X]

When Artifacts Aren't Spells

Great Furnace = Red ( 282/306? )
Vault of Whispers = Black ( 286/306?)
Tree of Tales = Green ( too small to see numbers )
Ancient Den = White ( too small to see numbers )
Seat of the Synod = Blue ( too small to see numbers )

They're of the type Artifact Land. Since Land is a keyword, I'm assuming they are your land drop for your turn. But as an Artifact...they have no casting cost, so it seems you can't Keg them or Counter them or Disenchant/Naturalize them...

By reading the article, and since it has in italics as reminders ~this~ isn't a spell, I'm assuming NO you cannot Counter, Disenchant/Naturalize, or Keg them - which is something you can do with Artifacts.

As Artifact Lands, I'm assuming they'll technically be nonbasics so Blood Moon and Back to Basics and such will interact with them.

They do not count as artifacts for artifact-counting purposes ( like the new Affinity ability and such ).

How are these better than basic lands? You're restricted to four per deck...Tainted Mask could use them to further assist in it's Tainted Pacts...but that is about all I can see.

Alright.

Discuss.

EDIT : The artwork is pretty tight, however. That alone might make it worth getting these in foil.\n\n

[Browser]

They must act as an artifact in some way.  (Be disenchantable, keg-able etc...)

I also they think they would count for your "Affinity for Artifacts" count.

Otherwise the fact that they are an artifact would have no significance.  They would be nearly functionaly identical to Snow-Covered lands, only worse.  (non-basic)

[Jebus]

Just because they are not spells does not mean they cannot be destroyed by effects that destroy artifacts.

What it means is they cannot be countered and they will not trigger effects that trigger off artifact spells being played.

They are still Artifact permanents so, they get blow'd up by Disenchant and Natrualize.

They will still count toward Affinity.\n\n

[Azhrei]

As I understand it, they count as both artifacts and as land for the purposes of being affected. Thus, they can be Wastelanded but not Duressed, and Kegged or Monkeyed. They affect affinity but not storm, and interact with Metalworker and Academy.

[Solaran_X]

Okay.

1) Without a casting cost listed, I'm assuming a CMV of 0. So a Keg for 0 would destroy Moxen, Loti, Zuran Orbs, AND these Artifact Lands.

2) They are NOT counterable, since they are not a spell. Therefore, I am assuming they do NOT use the stack and won't pump Storm.

3) Conflict - as Lands AND Artifacts, can they be Duressed/Therapied? EDIT : Sorry Az...you posted while I was responding. But I'd like to see a ruling on that...as Artifacts, they can be Duressed/Therapied...but as lands, they cannot. This is a major rules-screw here.

4) As nonbasic land, they are now supremely hate-able - Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Price of Progress, Wasteland, etc., etc. will have a field day with these.

So...besides running Vault of Whispers in Tainted Mask to assist with the Tainted Pacts, do we see any other uses for these? I'm assuming the Great Furnace may see use in Welder-based decks as fodder - it would make sense, if room can be found for it.

Other than that, I personally see no other use for them. They cannot be gotten through Land Tax, Landcycling, Tithe, or Fetchs - big downside. Since they're nonbasic, you can only run four in a deck - not that I believe you would want to run more.

What's even worse is that, as lands, you cannot play more than one per turn AND you cannot play one of these AND a land unless you have out Fastbond or Exploration.

These are very much so WORSE than Snow-Covered Lands.\n\n

[Jebus]

Quote (Solaran_X @ Sep. 04 2003,22:19)Okay.

1) Without a casting cost listed, I'm assuming a CMV of 0. So a Keg for 0 would destroy Moxen, Loti, Zuran Orbs, AND these Artifact Lands.

2) They are NOT counterable, since they are not a spell. Therefore, I am assuming they do NOT use the stack and won't pump Storm.

3) Conflict - as Lands AND Artifacts, can they be Duressed/Therapied? EDIT : Sorry Az...you posted while I was responding. But I'd like to see a ruling on that...as Artifacts, they can be Duressed/Therapied...but as lands, they cannot. This is a major rules-screw here.

4) As nonbasic land, they are now supremely hate-able - Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Price of Progress, Wasteland, etc., etc. will have a field day with these.

So...besides running Vault of Whispers in Tainted Mask to assist with the Tainted Pacts, do we see any other uses for these? I'm assuming the Great Furnace may see use in Welder-based decks as fodder - it would make sense, if room can be found for it.

Other than that, I personally see no other use for them. They cannot be gotten through Land Tax, Landcycling, Tithe, or Fetchs - big downside. Since they're nonbasic, you can only run four in a deck - not that I believe you would want to run more.

What's even worse is that, as lands, you cannot play more than one per turn AND you cannot play one of these AND a land unless you have out Fastbond or Exploration.

These are very much so WORSE than Snow-Covered Lands.

1.  Correct.

2.  Correct.

3.  They cannot be Duressed or Therapied.  Requirements for both are that you can only get a non-land card.  A card cannot be a non-land card if it has Land in it's type.

4.  Correct.

There main use in Type II will be to combo with affinity, Atog like effects, or any other number of effects that benefit from Artifacts.  Also good to use with Glimmervoid/Outcountry.

In Type I, they have uses with Welder and Tolarian Academy (more so with Welder as Academy does not really need these).\n\n

[Browser]

Quote In Type I, they have uses with Welder and Tolarian Academy

Keep in mind that Affinity for Artifacts might have a significant effect on Type 1 as well.  The following rumored bits of data should develop as time goes on here...

There's a "Beefy Flier" with Affinity for 5U.

There's an Affinity Counterspell.

[Jebus]

You're right, Affinity may make an impact on Type I.

The first Affinity card that raised my eyebrows was Thoughtcast.

Thoughtcast -  4U
Sorcery ©
Affinity for Artifacts (This spell costs 1 less to play for each artifact you control)
Draw 2 cards.

[Matt The Great]

Jebus has the rules correct.

[kl0wn]

Y'know, I've always wanted to be able to explode my opponent's land with Mox Monkey...

[Mykeatog]

In all of our power hungy type 1 worlds... we forget one thing...

these lands are fucking cool.

[Setnakt]

The question is, are they cool enough to disappear when I Deed for 0?

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Well, I think we'll see 4 Great Furnaces in WelderMUD in place of Mountains. Weldering your lands for Smokestacks =

[Toad]

There is way too much artifact hate in T1. I don't want my opponent's Deeds or Shaman, or even my own Powder Keg, to turn into one sided Armagueddons. They'll obviously be tested in Welder MUD, but I guess untouchable Mountains will be better than those easily hated lands.

[Thug]

Quote Well, I think we'll see 4 Great Furnaces in WelderMUD in place of Mountains. Weldering your lands for Smokestacks =

Having Artifacts to weld never really is a problem, there is a reason why you are running 30+ artifacts.

These seem like a very bad idea for Welder-MUD. Because the hate that was already hurting a lot, will now kill you: Null Rod, Gorilla Shaman, Energy Flux.

Actually I doubt if these lands will ever see play in Type 1, unless off course they're printing a very cool card with affiny for artifacts.

Koen