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Author Topic: Article -- Study Extended and Grow Strong  (Read 1761 times)
Rakso
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« on: November 08, 2003, 10:49:33 am »

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6123

Quote
Quote Mono red was the "clock." It goldfished at 4-6 turns. If your deck could not win or gain control of the game by the turn 5 mark, you had to work at it until it could - or abandon it. Wrath of God and Nevinyrral's Disk could no longer contain red. If red had card advantage, it won. If it had card disadvantage, it funneled that into a Cursed Scroll and won anyway. If you tapped low to cast anything, you lost to celerity creatures and burn. If you didn't cast anything, you lost to hordes of cheap weenies.

Unless you won the game on turn 3.

Red's primary problem is obvious. It has mucho death and no disruption. Any combo deck that can kill before red deals the final hammering can twiddle itself in peace for four turns without worrying.

Up from mindless fast creature death came combo fast kill death, the only viable solution within the parameters of four turns. We couldn't beat them because we got pathetic disruption. So we had to join them.

One of the cardinal rules of countermagic is that countermagic should not cost more than the spells it is expected to disrupt. Why wasn't Force Spike good before? Because we had good counterspells like Force of Will and before that, Mana Drain. We're forced to use these poor excuses for countermagic because Dismiss and Rewind are too damned expensive.

So where has all this led us? It has led us to the land of a game that has no end-game, nor middle-game. It is a game of four turns. It is a game of limited options. It is a game about drawing your fast kill faster.

Will the future bring us another turn of the screw, a deck that wins even faster even more consistently, setting us a new benchmark to test our decks against?

God, I hope not.

Probably so.
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MoreFling
Guest
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2003, 01:22:11 pm »

Quote
Quote If anything, the latest Extended tech shows that the restriction of Mishra's Workshop will not kill artifact prison decks, even if you consider that Type I has Force of Will but no unrestricted Tinker and Grim Monolith. Indeed, if you can replace dual lands with lands like Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors (as MUD decks already use), artifact looks like a stronger "color."

Actually, unrestricted Tinker + Monolith is a LOT sicker than unrestricted Workshop.
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Crater Hellion
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« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2003, 01:34:04 pm »

without a doubt.
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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2003, 01:56:58 pm »

Agreed. You don't even need unrestricted monolith. Unrestricted tinker alone would be far more deadly in type 1, even more now that Mirrodin was released. You could easily go for a turn 2 kill.
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Akuma (gio)
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2003, 02:14:21 pm »

Interesting article. You post what some "people" think should be restricted or watched, and there really is not need for that. Everyone on that list has a bias of some sort, whether they like control, prison, combo, mask or some other deck. So in short, there is no need for that. It would be best if the articles dealt with deck description, strategy, innovation and the like (kind of like Smmenen, Tindemans, and Koen).
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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2003, 03:14:42 pm »

Not to mention that Rakso himself seems biased in his choices. Noticed on how he's the only one to name Psychatog? Razz
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Smmenen
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2003, 04:36:42 pm »

The format is completely different.  There is no fair comparison

I played The Desire deck at a GPT today and it was just insane with both players getting top eight with that deck.

I won on turn two AS MUCH as I win on turn two with Type One long.

It also can win on turn one with:

Chrome Mox, Ancient Tomb/City of Traitors, Tinker, Mind's Desire, and Twiddles/Dream's Grip/Burst of Energies.  

Not that difficult to get to win on turn one.  You tinker away the mox for Gilded Lotus - Twiddle it until you cast Mind's Desire for 5+ and just win.

Suffice to say, I will be writing about the new extended soon becuase it's fucking fun.

Frankly though, 1.x is in MUCH worse shape simply because there is no Force of Will - which is why you cannot even a valid comparison.

Steve Menendian\n\n

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rozetta
Guest
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2003, 05:16:53 pm »

Quote
Quote Actually, unrestricted Tinker + Monolith is a LOT sicker than unrestricted Workshop.

OMFG.

Amen.

No, seriously.

That is so true and Smmenen, what you said is equally as true. Someone please show me a type 1 deck that can consistently fuck the opponent with Mindlsaver turn 2 and I'll be your bestest friend forever.
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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2003, 08:30:25 pm »

Now that I come to think of it... is extended more broken than type 1 right now, or is it just as broken as type 1? Either way it seems good that bannings are on their way to extended.
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Smmenen
Guest
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2003, 11:12:22 pm »

It's more broken becuase it's just as fast but lacks Force of Will.

Don't let people lie to you.  Extended is AS fast as Type One sans Long.

Steve
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Vegeta2711
Guest
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2003, 11:31:31 pm »

Yeah ok I'll study 1.x to tell me T1 PTQ's would suck like the 1.x ones in December and that unrestricted Tinker is mad broke 'yo.  
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-CF-
Guest
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2003, 11:14:30 pm »

Quote
Quote Suffice to say, I will be writing about the new extended soon becuase it's fucking fun.

It's fun when you win, but only because it's so broken. It's never because "ooh, what a play I pulled there!" because there is no player interaction at all. You will draw your hand, see that you have a turn2 kill ready and then lose because your opponent has it too and HE won the dieroll. Fun for him, not for you. Without Force of Will in the format, the dieroll is currently more of a deciding factor than it has ever been in _any_ format previously.

The format is retarded. It needs fixing much more than T1, and T1 really needs it.

--
Chris
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Fishhead
Guest
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2003, 02:34:01 am »

Quote
Quote ... is extended more broken than type 1 right now, or is it just as broken as type 1?

More broken.  Look at the Tinker decks -- how many restricted cards are they playing?  4 Monolith, 4 Tinker, 4 Key, and 4 Stroke?  

All the fast mana in that format makes me feel sad when I only have 5 Moxes and a Lotus to keep up.
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