Impulse Keeper

[Freddie]

--------------------Let me preface this by stating:--------------------

My metagame consists of almost all aggro, most of witch are 2 or 1 color, and that power is not abundant, usually only exsisting in about 50% of the decks, and even then, those decks on average only have 1-3 of them.

Fully powered decks make only around 1-3% of any given tournament, I being one of the only fully powered keepers.

I have been a fan of impulse in keeper for a long time now. Though this opinion has sparked allot of controversy, I wanted to state my case yet again, for discussion and comment.

This is an exerpt from a post I had on BD, from about a month ago, providing 2 actual tournament examples, as to why I endore impulse:

-----------------------------------
By Freddie Williams II (Freddie) on Tuesday, May 28, 2002 - 11:04 am:

"Over the weekend, I took 1st in a 20+ person tournament using a keeper build sporting 3 copies of a often criticized (in keeper) power house:

Impulse.

In every game impulse was INSTRAMENTAL to early development, and to mid-Late game succsess!

One particular instance against a sui black deck, I impulsed on the stack of his turn 2 Hymn (tapping my 1st turn tundra and ruby) and my impulse was:
1. Misdirection
2. City of Brass
3. Force of Will
4. Diabolic Edict

I kept misdirection and stuffed that Hymn back into his face.

Now lets look at what impulse accomplished in this situation:

In effect this spacific impulse was a way to search for an answer to ANY spell my opponent was casting, at instant speed. Even without the misdirection, I could have kept the force (if spells in my hand were that important, witch they were), if it had been a cresture, - enter the edict edict, a wasteland, enter the COB.

Even if the impulse had yeilded nothing but 4 mana sources, that is a pocket of 4 I did not have to drudge threw with my draw steps, getting hammered by shades and hymn's.

-------

On another occasion (the entire game, really), impulse saved my bacon again; on the stack of an early wasteland (finding anothr mana), then on the stack of an ancestral (finding a mind twist), and on the stack of a serindib (finding an abyss).

In either of these cases, impulse served as a way to diversly fortify my hand, as a mini tutor, and digger.

Since my keeper is almost a .dec, besides the impulses replacing, regrowth, merchant scroll, and sylvan.

In instance #1, if impulse had been any of those original cards (Regrowth, merchant scroll or sylvan) i would have been more hard pressed to find my answeres as easily.

In example 2, Impulse served as a diverse avenue of searching for an answer to each of these diverse threats."
---------------------End original BD quote---------------------

Since this post I have added a regrowth, but only because several bad matchups with sui black, in witch they had duressed/ hymned my abyss, balance, and or Yawgmoths Will.

Here is my current Keeper List: 61 Cards
Blue: (21)
Stroke of Genius: R
Brain Geyser: R
Fact Or Fiction: R
Ancestral Recal: R
Time Walk: R
Mystical Tutor: R
Impulse: 4

Mana Drain: 4
Force Of Will: 4
Counterspell: 1

Morphling: 2

Black: (7)
Mind Twist: R
Vampiric Tutor: R
Demonic Tutor: R
Abyss: 1
Diabolic Edict: 2
Yawgmoth’s Will: R

White: (3)
Dismanteling Blow: 1
Balance: R
Swords to Plowshares: 1

Red: (1)
Gorilla Shaman: 1

Green: (1)
Regrowth: R

Artifact: (1)
Zuran Orb: 1

Mana Sources: (27)
SoLoMoxen: R x 7
Library Of Alexandra: R
StipMine: R
Waste Land: 3
Volcanic Island: 3
City Of Brass: 4
Undiscovered Paradise: 1
Underground Sea: 4
Underground River: 1
Tundra: 2

SideBoard: (15)
Red Elemental Blast: 3
Misdirection: 2
Dwarven Miner: 2
Enlightened Tutor: R
Swords to Plowshares: 1
Abyss: 1
Circle of Protection: Red: 1
Tormod’s Crypt: 1
Aura Fracture: 1
Compost: 1
Perish: 1

4 wastelands and a strip, as much as I love the idea, is overkill, In my metagame, and the same (overall) can be said for 2 monkeys maindeck.

I feel that Tome is to slow for my current metagame, and instead I am playing Geyser in its place (and the lack of misdirections in my enviornment also make it a sound choice)

Due to my hatered of the WW casting of moat, and my reluctance to play more tundra's. I am curently running a 2nd abyss in the SB, but am also considering a keg.

Enlightened tutor is an expierement for me as well, made just last night, after hypothesising that it could act as a 2nd copy of each enchantment/ artifact hoser in my SB.

I am also looking at fitting in another shaman but cannot find the room right now.

I am very open to sugestions, and comments, please consider impulse before immediately rejecting it, It serves versitile tutor: as a way to circumvent mana hosement, and as a way to plow threw patches of your deck, getting you to money, lastly as a way to send late game cards to the bottom of your deck, were you can then call upon them later, with out them cluttering your hand.

-Freddie

[Shortguy]

For some reason I have always liked the idea of Impulse in Keeper, It is a good card-parity instant, that filters through the deck and give you reasonably fast answers to almost any problem. A few points:

 1. Consider running Sylvan Library along with your Impulses, it is not only a match-winner against control, but is greatly enhanced by Impulse, every time you cast it with library in play, you dig four, then dig three deeper beginning of your next turn.

 2. Is running only 27 Mana Sources working for you? I run 28 in a 60 card Keeper, yet get questionable draws quite often, does Impulse smooth out your base enough to run that many mana sources? You might consider adding a source of white or red, your sideboard seems focused on those colors. Since you dislike the idea of Moat in the board though, Powder Kegs are a good option there, and I would try to find another spot for Red in the main.

 3. I think that 2 Diabolic Edict is overkill, it is almost always inferior to StP in an aggro environment, but since you run Impulse over Merchant Scroll, Fire/Ice would be suboptimal, maybe another StP? Or are there lots of Morphlings running around?

 4. Compost is most effective early game when boarded in against decks with black. One copy is not enough to find it early, and your Keeper does not contain enough green to reliably cast it even if you were to find it on the first or second turn,- when it is most effective. In your metagame, I would seriously consider running a pair of Powder Kegs and a Pyroclasm in the board.

I believe that a version of Keeper w/ Impulses could be very strong, but I have yet to test 4 in The Deck. The versatility of Impulse is very nice, and I agree that it could serve the place of several tutors, and sets up your early card quality quite nicely.

-Dustin

[Milton]

I really like your deck.  Using Impulse allows you to run 5 colors and not get screwed as often.  Also, you are very very comfortable with Impulse and it allows you to do some very nifty stack effects and to hide your Morphlings at the bottom of your deck against discard.

Don't feel bad if you got slammed on BD for using Impulse.  BD became a little inbred.  Keeper was all about what was best at Neutral Ground, not what was best in other metagames.  I got slammed on BD for using Bloodmoon time and time again.  Also, I watched wierd trends come out of BD, especially from the BD players out of New York, that people would pick up on with little rationale, such as the trend toward 1 Fire/Ice, 1 Swords and 1 Edict.  Or the trend away from Vampiric, but towards Sylvan, trends I never understood.  Having said that, I'll miss BD.  It was a good time.

But, we have the chance to look at some really fresh ideas here, and your deck is fresh.  You do have to drop to 60 cards, though.  61 is too many.

So, I would find something to drop.  In my opinion you could drop the Braingeyser and not notice it at all.  Look at how much advantage you already have for card drawing.  You have Ancestral, Stroke and FoF along with 4 Impulse.  That's a major advantage against most Keeper or aggro decks.  Couple that with your Regrowth, which I don't like, but I understand why people love it, and you have the ability to outdraw most Keeper decks.  

In regards to your mana base, you could definately pull that Underground River.  Not counting the UR or Lotus you have 10 black mana.  Nothing in your deck requires more than one black mana to cast, and you run Impulse.  So, you could replace that Underground River with another Wasteland.  27 land with 4 wasteland and a strip seems low, but you run 4 impulse to smooth things out.  

If I were playing your deck I would even go so far as to pull the Regrowth for a Dwarven Miner maindeck, along with 4 wastelands and a strip.  Impulse doesn't only allow you to be defensive, as was the case in your earlier examples, but it also allows you to be very agressive with land kill.

Another card that you could pull are either the Mystical or Vampiric tutors.  With 4 impulse you really only need one of these.  

As for your sideboard, I also love Enlightened Tutor in the board, but I never found myself sideing it in.  Also, your Perish could easily be replaced with a Masticore, another card that can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor.  Also, do you really need Aura Fracture?  What enchantments are you seeing that make this card necessary?  And Tormod's Crypt?  I have never found this card to be useful and you would have to justify it's use over another Red Blast or Gorilla Shaman.

To finish, I would ask you the same question I ask everyone else.  How do you sideboard against certian deck types?  What do you put in against Keeper, Mono-Blue, Mono-Black, Sligh, Agro and Combo?  Also, what do you take out in each matchup?

Good luck.

[IllusionX]

First off, I really like your deck, impulse adds some consitency that I like.

2 Edicts is too much imo.  Have you tried Chainer's Edict yet?  I would say 1 Chainer's Edict + 2 Sword to Plowshares would be plenty for creature control.  This allows you your two edict uses, and more StoP's for quicker aggro.

As for your mana base, I would say remove the Underground River and add in another Tundra, which would allow you to have better chance of using a 2nd StoP.

With another Tundra maindeck, would allow you to have a better chance of playing Moat instead of 2.Abyss in the sb.  Enlightened Tutor sideboard is awesome, I have tried it in the past and I was happy when I did side it in.  And also, if you try to configuration of 1 Chainer's Edict + 2 StoP, that would free up the StoP slot in sb, and add in the powder keg you were wanting to try.

1 Mox Monkey maindeck is enough imo, with the impulses and tutors, you should be able to find it plenty enough.

Sylvan Library is a godsend in the control match up, you could try 3 impulse and 1 Sylvan Libarry.

One question I have is why the changes from the version you ran this past weekend?

That is about all I can think of right now.  Good luck with the changes.

[Fishhead]

> Don't feel bad if you got slammed on BD for using Impulse.  
> BD became a little inbred.  

My favorite thing about the Impulse discussion on BD was that they'd dismiss the fact that *all* the Keeper players played Impulse in the Invitational by saying that "The Invitational is an inbred metagame."  (And that Long, Maher and Finkel suck at Type 1.   )  Lol.

Anyway, I am a strong proponent of Impulse because it helps you find the cards you need.  It's particularly apparent against Aggro, where if you dont find the cards you need quickly, you die.  But even against other control decks, it helps you build the sort of hand you need to "go off".  Its not as clear what you are doing here, because you may find your Morphling and a couple counters to back him up  -- and still get outcountered by the opposing deck.  But the fact was you got to look at 4 more cards every time you Impulsed; you gave yourself the best chance to build a winning hand.

In the interest of fairness though (since the discussion is often "3 Impulse v. Sylvan, Regrowth & X") I did lose my Keeper mirror last Friday to early Sylvans by the opponent.  Sylvan, and especially Sylvan + Zorb is a backbreaker in the mirror.  Still, the theory is that Impulse helps you find your bombs.  If you draw your Sylvan with FoW backup in your opening hand every time, you dont need Impulse.   But if you have to set up your position and then try and win like the rest of us mortals, Impulse fixes up your card quality.

[Freddie]

@ShortGuy:
1. Sylvan, Good Card, and I have always liked it, but I am about to loose 1 impulse to go to 60 cards, anyway, and the only other expendible card left (imo) is the regrowth. But since they serve different purposes, and Right now mono black is enough of a threat to warrant the regrowth over the sylvan.

2. Impulse does greatly smooth the mana, and as far as running 28 mana, I like the idea, but MY 28th was always a 4th wasteland (for me), and with all of the mono colored decks running around in my metagame, I am staying with 3 wastes and a strip @ 27 mana witht he impulses, I should be able to get to the mana or the removal I need, as for now that is.

3.You are correct about 2 edict being to many, I just like the non target against the off chance morphling, and no they are not rampant, I was just trying it out, but you are correct, I think that 2 plow is better, I will experiment with the chainers.

4. Compost, with me playing 1 demonic, 1 vampiric, and 1 enlightened, and the 4 impulses, I think that the 1 compost should be easy enough (in general) to find. Plus Abyss and compost have a great synergy!

--------------------

@Milton:
First off, I HATE BLOODMOON! not because it is a bad card, but because it WRECKS me!

I love the idea of the old scholl SB bloodmoon coming back to terrorize the youngsters that don't expect it to come in against their ZERO basic land keeper, or zoo, or combo.

I am going to keep the geyser for now, and loose an impulse.

The geyser, is like my all in 1 turn tome, were I drain a 2-3 caster, then tap off color moxen, and draw like 3-6 cards, doing the same that I would be doing with 16-30 mana with the tome.

I give this analogy, because I would play a tome (over the geyser) in keeper if permission was popular in my area to warrant it.

Milton: please note that I only have 3 wastelands, I would run 4 wastelands and go to 28 mana, if non basics were more popular, but right now my meta game is going mono or 2 colors.

About the SB:
Perish is there for the stompy decks, some reanimator decks running verdant force, and for an enchantress deck.

Crypt is there for Reanimator, and replenish... also there is a really annoying survival deck using squees, that it comes in against.

YOU of all people know why Aura Fractue is needed, Back 2 Basics and bloodmoon are the reason.

Blood moon and B2B kick me in the jimmy!!!

SB Matchups:
Keeper:
+3 REB
+2 mis-d
+2 Miner

-1 Vamp
-1 Mys
-1 Abyss
-1 Plow
-1 Zorb
-1 Impulse
-1 Regrowth, or edict, depending on the opponents playstyle

Mono-Blue:
+3 REB
+2 mis-d
+1 Aura Fracture

-1 Vamp
-1 Mys
-1 Abyss
-1 Plow
-1 Zorb
-1 Impulse

Mono-Black:
+1 Compost
+1 Abyss
+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 plow
+1 misdirect

-1 Wasteland
-1 Counterspell
-1 Geyser
-2 FOW

Sligh:
+2 mis-d
+1 COP
+1 Enlightened
+1 Plow

-2 FOW
-2 Edict
-1 Wasteland

Stompy:
+1 Abyss
+1 Plow
+1 perish
+1 Enlightened

-2 FOW
-1 Geyser
-1 Wasteland

Combo:
Academy:
+3 REB
+2 Miner
+2 Mis-d

-2 Edict
-1 plow
-1 Regrowth
-1 Zorb
-1 Abyss
-1 D.Blow

Underworld Dreams:
+3 REB
+2 Miner
+2 Mis-d
+1 Aura Fracture

-2 Edict
-1 plow
-1 Regrowth
-1 Zorb
-1 Abyss
-1 Geyser
-1 morphling, or Balance

---------------------------

@IllusionX
I had made just made the adjustments that you saw at the juzam tourney 2 days before it. But since then, I decided that moat needed to be a vamp, and that 1 of the creature kill needed to be a counterspell.

I liked the maindeck for the most part at that tourney, but decided i did not like the moat MD, and that its WW casting was EVIL!

PS, good 15 card stack over your ophidian.
---------------------------

@Fishhead:
Some of the T1 invitationals had some off color cards, but finkels was pretty high teck, if you lost the obliterate, and swapped the maindeck cop red for a zorb, you would be in buisess...
---------------------------

Because each of you suggested the sylvan, I may give that a shot, but I do not know what to loose for it.

Here is what i am for sure going to do for the next tourney I play in:

-2 Diabolic Edict
-1 underground River
-1 impulse (going to 60)

+1 Chainers
+1 Plow
+1 Tundra

SB:
-1 plow
+1 Keg... or the evil moat.

What do all of you think? specificly about the moat to play it or not to, and if I do, keep the 2nd abyss or no?

Thank you everyone for your advise.

-Freddie

[Milton]

It looks like you made some good choices.  After you explained your metagame a little I understand why your sideboard looked the way it did.

I most strenously disagree with Chainers Edict.  I think the card is horrible, but let me know how it works.  Understanding the mono-colored nature of your metagame, you are right to not include the 4th Wasteland.  But, I still think you could fit it in there with a 27 land count and 4 Impulses.

I'm still suprised that you didn't add Masticore to your sideboard, though.

[IllusionX]

The choices you made seem reasonable.

Same as Milton said, let us know how you like Chainer's Edict.  I personally think it should work fine, only losing the instant ability, but sometimes that doesn't matter imo.

Yeah, was a good nth-teen stack over the Ophidian.

My thoughts on the moat is play it sideboard, remove the extra Abyss, but that is just personal prefrence.

And the Sylvan library, if you have a phobia against playing 61 cards then don't try it; but if you can bare to play 61, try cutting the 1 impulse and adding the Sylvan. They have good synergy together and can help you find all your answers quicker when paired together.

[Dante]

Freddie - I've been running keeper decks for years and when I used to run moat, I ran 4 COB, 4 Tundras, 1 UP, plus Pearl and Lotus for white and I still had trouble getting WW for the moat sometimes.  Personally, I wouldn't sideboard it unless I ran a full 4 tundras.

I definitely agree with replacing the plow in the board with a mass removal effect since you have 3 1-for-1 instants main.

As for the sideboard and moat, as I said above, if you aren't going to go 4 tundras, I wouldn't use it and would use keg or pyroclasm instead.

I wouldn't go with a second abyss either - you've got tutoring, drawing, and digging, a second abyss isn't useful to draw, maybe go with something else like the spells mentioned above or masticore or something to that effect.

Dante

EDIT: Merged post\n\n

[Zherbus]

Impulse really hurts tempo, which is important in Type 1. Yeah, it really smooths out your mana base, but your cutting too many good cards to do this.

Quote Since my keeper is almost a .dec, besides the impulses replacing, regrowth, merchant scroll, and sylvan.

Regrowth is a decent card. Worth cutting? I can't imagine not running it myself, after playing with the card in 5cControl for so long you sort of get attached. Definetly the weakest of the 3 cards you've cut.

Merchant scroll. A long with cutting regrowth, this means you are ancestral recalling far less than the average keeper. Though, by the sounds of your meta-game, it sounds like your play strategy entails getting mana, and finding abyss quickly. If thats really all you're doing, and not worrying about the control on control match-up then all the power to you.

Sylvan Library is so good. It wins control on control match ups by iteself once forced into play. If your really the only control deck thats worth anything, I'm sure you can afford to lose it since you'll probably side this out against many aggro matchups as it is. This is, as Matt D put it, a huge reason not to play mono-blue.

All in all, I would never cut these for impulse in my keeper. Though in your meta-game, I think its perfectly fine. I wouldn't call your deck "Keeper" but more of a turbo-abyss deck

[Fishhead]

> Impulse really hurts tempo, which is important in Type 1.

I dont think I follow this.  The cards Impulse most often replaces are main-phase spells like Sylvan and Regrow.  Impulse should be easier on your tempo; its not like you want to tap out main-phase unless you have to.  

> Yeah, it really smooths out your mana base, but your
> cutting too many good cards to do this.

I made the same cuts and the only card I miss is Sylvan in the control mirror.  But, since Sylvan is a lot less useful in the aggro matchup (while Impulse is very much better) I agree with you that its more a metagame shift than a matter of finding the "right" decklist.  

> Merchant scroll. A long with cutting regrowth, this
> means you are ancestral recalling far less than the average
> keeper.

My theory on this is that with Impulse, I see more cards, I set up my hand better, I tend to win counter-wars over important questions like Ancestral.  I also tend to find my Ancestral faster than my opponents.  With Misdirection in the mix, I want to Ancestral with confidence, not just Ancestral often.  

[FeverDog]

As i have mentioned before, i can certainly understand cutting green from the deck, Regrowth is not really needed and Sylvan is only good in control mirrors. Whether or not the mirror is something you have to worry about determines how valuable Sylvan is in your metagame. However, cutting Scroll is a huge mistake, its blue, it fetches Ancestral-FoF-Fire/Ice and can also start the tutor chain. I would never cut it personally, espcially for an Impulse, but do what you want, its your deck.

[Freddie]

What about SBing regrowth against suicide Black?

sounds crazy, but that is the primary reason for it in the deck!

what if the deck looked like this:

Blue:  (21)
Stroke of Genius: R
Brain Geyser: R
Fact Or Fiction: R
Ancestral Recal: R
Time Walk: R
Mystical Tutor: R
Impulse: 4

Mana Drain: 4
Force Of Will: 4
Counterspell: 1

Morphling: 2

Black: (6)
Mind Twist: R
Demonic Tutor: R
Vampiric Tutor: R
Abyss: 1
Chainers Edict: 1
Yawgmoth’s Will: R

White: (4)
Dismanteling Blow: 1
Balance: R
Swords to Plowshares: 2

Red: (1)
Gorilla Shaman: 1

Artifact: (1)
Zuran Orb: 1

Mana Sources: (27)
SoLoMoxen: R x 7
Library Of Alexandra: R
StipMine: R
Waste Land: 3
Volcanic Island: 3
Tundra: 3
City Of Brass: 4
Underground Sea: 4
Undiscovered paradise: 1

SideBoard: (15)
Red Elemental Blast: 3
Dwarven miner: 2
Regrowth: R
Moat / Abyss :1 (haven't decided)
Enlightened Tutor: R
Misdirection: 2
Circle of Protection: Red: 1
Tormod’s Crypt: 1
Aura Fracture: 1
Compost: 1
Perish: 1


What is the opinion on this odd Idea?

the only other cards that I constantly go back to in my mind in the SB is another shaman, disrupting scepter, masticore, I am not sure: if I decide that regrowth is not good enough for the maindeck, should I cut it entirely?

But it is so good against mono black.

I am not sure... what is all of your opinions?

-Freddie

[Zherbus]

Quote (Fishhead @ June 26 2002,04:36)> Impulse really hurts tempo, which is important in Type 1.

I dont think I follow this.  The cards Impulse most often replaces are main-phase spells like Sylvan and Regrow.  Impulse should be easier on your tempo; its not like you want to tap out main-phase unless you have to.  

> Yeah, it really smooths out your mana base, but your
> cutting too many good cards to do this.

I made the same cuts and the only card I miss is Sylvan in the control mirror.  But, since Sylvan is a lot less useful in the aggro matchup (while Impulse is very much better) I agree with you that its more a metagame shift than a matter of finding the "right" decklist.  

> Merchant scroll. A long with cutting regrowth, this
> means you are ancestral recalling far less than the average
> keeper.

My theory on this is that with Impulse, I see more cards, I set up my hand better, I tend to win counter-wars over important questions like Ancestral.  I also tend to find my Ancestral faster than my opponents.  With Misdirection in the mix, I want to Ancestral with confidence, not just Ancestral often.  

Well, with mono-blue, you typically draw, maybe attack with an Ophidian, then pass the turn. Impulse is great here because quite frankly, theres not a lot you do on your mainphase unless your laying a keg, phid, or Morphling. Mono-blue is also redundant, see?

Its no big deal to put your Morphling on the bottom of the deck, or even send a keg there...theres probably another coming up soon.

In keeper, say you're facing suicide. Your playing impulse to smooth outh your mana base, but when you do so you draw into an Abyss, an ancestral, another impulse, and the fouth piece of mana you need to cast that abyss. What do you do? Take the Abyss and hope you draw a land/mox before it gets duressed or hymned? Take the land and hope you draw a tutor?

As far as impulse goes to hurt your tempo, it casting less effective spells in the name of stabilizing. I'd rather be using the mana for something else.

If its working for Freddie, of course why change it. It a more diverse field, I just would never do it.

Freddie, if mono black is really giving you a fit, then I'd seriously consider twister in the SB. Also, I've come to really like the lone enlightened tutor in the SB. If you had more green, I'd suggest Sterling Grove...

EDIT: Merged post\n\n

[Freddie]

Well, I tried the new config, last night at a mox emerald tournament, and got to semi's (top 4) but was beat by an awesome player, Brian Pierce, playing reanimator, with a 2nd turn Multani on both games (land + Dark Ritual + Entomb + exume/ Animate dead = a serious clock), and me with no edicts or balance to be seen.

However in the previous 2 rounds I was happy with the configuration, and am going to continue to use it for a while longer, however I may try a Diabolic edict in the SB, to bring in against untargetables, and mono blue.

After I lost 0-2 in the semi's I played a few fun games control on control, and 2 of the 4 games, the chainers flashback caught my opponent off guard and snagged his morphling both times, I know that if I continue to play this card though, my opponents will get used to it, and it will be less of a surprise factor.

I AM considering Timetwist SB, but am having a hard time taking something out, I could loose a miner, since control is so unpopular, but I want all of your advise:

My current SB:
Regrowth: R
Perish: 1
REB: 3
Dwarven Miner: 2
Misdirection: 2
Enlightened Tutor: R
Compost: 1
Aura Fracture: 1
COP Red: 1
Moat: 1 (Evil)
Tormod's Crypt: 1 (what do you guys think of Steam claw or Phyresian Phurnace here?)

Also, its cool going infinite with time Walk, time twist, and regrowth.

-Freddie

[Fishhead]

> In keeper, say you're facing suicide. Your playing impulse
> to smooth outh your mana base, but when you do so
> you draw into an Abyss, an ancestral, another impulse,
> and the fouth piece of mana you need to cast that abyss. > What do you do?

Hehe.  And what do I do in this scenario if I dont Impulse?  I draw Abyss and say "go".  Then I take 6 damage and face the possibility of being Duressed anyway.  Not Impulsing is sure worse than Impulsing here.  

One mistake people make is thinking Impulse is just to smooth your mana-base.  Especially in the Aggro matchup, its a great way of finding the answer you need before you get overrun.  I get to see 4 more cards each time; brings me that much closer to The Abyss or the Balance which solves my problems.

> Impulse is great [in MonoBlue] because quite frankly,
> theres not a lot you do on your mainphase unless
> your laying a keg, phid, or Morphling.

Am I doing a lot of mainphase stuff with Keeper?  

> Tormod's Crypt: 1 (what do you guys think of Steam
> claw or Phyresian Phurnace here?)

Tormods does the job better.  I actually play the Crypt maindeck in my Keeper.  Its more an individual choice than the fact its somehow a "best" card; but it does put a dent in a lot of random strategies.  I consider it my anti-recursion silver bullet.  And, in the Keeper mirror it stops Will, Regrowth and really hurts (the admittedly rarely played) TimeTwister.  It makes Dragons life hard, it makes Parfaits recursion less good.  

> REB: 3
> Dwarven Miner: 2

If control is unpopular, perhaps the ReBs can be cut down?

[Rakso]

Quote (Zherbus @ June 25 2002,15:30)

Quote Since my keeper is almost a .dec, besides the impulses replacing, regrowth, merchant scroll, and sylvan.

Regrowth is a decent card. Worth cutting? I can't imagine not running it myself, after playing with the card in 5cControl for so long you sort of get attached. Definetly the weakest of the 3 cards you've cut.

Merchant scroll. A long with cutting regrowth, this means you are ancestral recalling far less than the average keeper. Though, by the sounds of your meta-game, it sounds like your play strategy entails getting mana, and finding abyss quickly. If thats really all you're doing, and not worrying about the control on control match-up then all the power to you.

Sylvan Library is so good. It wins control on control match ups by iteself once forced into play. If your really the only control deck thats worth anything, I'm sure you can afford to lose it since you'll probably side this out against many aggro matchups as it is. This is, as Matt D put it, a huge reason not to play mono-blue.

All in all, I would never cut these for impulse in my keeper. Though in your meta-game, I think its perfectly fine. I wouldn't call your deck "Keeper" but more of a turbo-abyss deck

Interestingly enough, I had to deal with all the issues discussed here months ago, around the time FoF got restricted.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=2431

The BD discussion wasn't actually inbred if you look at the comments I compiled. Whoever said that is quoting Azhrei as BD.

My final comments pretty much stand. Impulse is good--if you can fit it in.

That means I'd love to play it in my deck, so long as they change the deck size minimum to 65 cards.

The tempo loss isn't as big an issue, given the nature of the seeming mana curve, as the loss of certain card slots is.

Zherbus's critique is the most on point so I'll focus on that, but in another order.

Cut Merchant Scroll for an Impulse. Um... the thing finds Ancestral against everything, and Fire or Mystical Tutor against faster decks. You'd end up reducing consistency, right?

Next

Cut Sylvan for another Impulse. The main justification is that it's sometimes inconsistent due to the mana but this isn't the argument of a guy who uses Impulse to defend Compost. Now, as for consistency, Sylvan is far better than Impulse when you use the drawing right and time the reshuffle effects properly. It can pull you ahead early, or manipulate your library enough to break stalemates midgame.

So if you can't cut your first two prospects because they actually add more consistency to the deck, it's dubious that you want to make the effort to add just one Impulse, right?

It's a lot easier to find room in mono blue where you just have to filter for an FoF, Morphling or Keg. Adding colors, your slots fight with the real tutors, and guess what wins when you look over the restricted list?

[Rakso]

Quote (Freddie @ June 28 2002,10:16)My current SB:
Regrowth: R
Perish: 1
REB: 3
Dwarven Miner: 2
Misdirection: 2
Enlightened Tutor: R
Compost: 1
Aura Fracture: 1
COP Red: 1
Moat: 1 (Evil)
Tormod's Crypt: 1 (what do you guys think of Steam claw or Phyresian Phurnace here?)

Somewhat off topic from the actual topic...

What's the point of running Regrowth in the sideboard? Really?

You're going to sideboard a midgame green card against a black deck with land destruction and into a deck with only six green sources?

And the green card isn't even Compost?\n\n

[Freddie]

I have changed a few cards around in the SB and main deck in the last week... but they are even more janky then the 4 impulse thing, I have removed the Regrowth from the SB... and have decided that chainers edict is good, but just not to my liking, and changed back to diabolic.

I will post my decklist on another thread, to begin another discussion about a few other cards.

thanks everyone for you imput... and to all of the folks that dislike Rakso/ think that he is arrogant:

You are entitled to your opinion, I will not disrespect you for voicing them... however, I know that he HAS done ALLOT for the T1 community, and I do think that he deserves his props.

I appreciate all that he has done for T1 and the magic community in general.

We have had our disagreement, and even feuds, but I respect him...

End speach.

-Freddie

[drkavngr]

Impulse works well in keeper, I have seen many a good impulse make the diffrance from getting that one game breaker (mainly Yawgmoths Will ..ack) and finishing the match.  Keep them in man, I think they belong in most keeper decks.  A very wise choice.  

[Greven]

I think that Impulse can be good in Keeper, but not a full 4. It's one of those cards that can help out a lot, but can also not be so helpful. At the worst it can be FoW/Misdirection fodder, but I would probably only play 2 Impulse in Keeper, if I even played them at all.

[Fishhead]

> Cut Merchant Scroll for an Impulse. Um... the thing
> finds Ancestral against everything, and Fire or
> Mystical Tutor against faster decks. You'd end up
> reducing consistency, right?

Thats an interesting way of thinking about it.  Personally, I dont want to tap out on Turn 2 to Merchant Scroll and then show my Aggro opponent a Fire.  ("Here's what I have.  I'm tapped out.  Play around me.")  I'd rather make my opponent play around my Mana Drain and then EoT Impulse hoping to find something cool.  (Downside: "Huh, 4 land.  I wish I had drawn a Fire.")  

And with all the Misdirections floating around, I'm a little more reluctant to Ancestral as aggressively as I used to.  Besides, if it was all about getting Ancestral all the time, we'd be playing 4 Merchant Scrolls and a Mystical.    Personally, I am playing 3 Impulse, 1 Merchant Scroll and 1 Mystical which I find to be enough was to get the Ancestral before my opponent.  An interesting side questions here is - "How many ways to get Ancestral should I play?"

Anyway, depending on the deck configuration, I'm not sure I am reducing consistency by dumping a Merchant Scroll.

> and to all of the folks that dislike Rakso/ think that he
> is arrogant [...] however, I know that he HAS done ALLOT
> for the T1 community ...

As if both things cant be true at the same time!   <-- [two smileys for the humor impaired!]

Actually, I appreciate the job Rakso did at BD; its pretty thankless to mod a discussion group.  And he did it through good times and bad, which deserves a lot of credit.  

OTOH, I'd like all the old BD rivalries and cliques to die with BD.  I didnt think that Rakso quoting the ever vocal MattD & Az about how they were too cool to come here was doing anything but stirring up bad blood.  Nor was posting an OT rant about how he didnt like a particular person because of something that happened on BD.  

My point is that Rakso could have been more mellow than he has been on this board and so doing might have saved him a little grief.  Doesnt take away from giving him props for years of hard work, but now is a new ballgame.  Hell, we're listening to Legend these days arent we?  

[Rakso]

Hmmmm... funny, I thought that WAS mellow for a response to a Freddie thread. I should reread my Inquest article several more times to get mellow.

Too many inconsistencies in the argument, though.

1. Merchant Scroll isn't an uncommon turn 1 play with a Mox.
2. You don't Scroll for Fire against aggro... you usually get an Ancestral with a turn 1 or 2 Scroll.
3. You and your opponent both know you only have 4 Mana Drains. Never assume you'll have one on turn 2.
4. Let's see you wish for Merchant Scroll turn 2 against an aggro deck.
5. The 4 Merchant Scroll argument belongs on MTGNews. Did we ever play 4 Abyss or 4 Morphling in Keeper? You play as many ways to get Ancestral as possible while staying within the bounds of common sense.
6. Well if you know your opponent might have a Misdirection, use the common sense I mentioned.

If you think the previous post was arrogant, you ain't seen nothing yet. Matt and Az were perceived as arrogant all right, mainly by people who had no idea what they were talking about and therefore couldn't answer sensible criticism.

[Freddie]

About Impulse:

I feel almost indebted to it, for winning me so many games, just making topdecking better, but 4 of is probibly a little excessive.

3 Impulse is probibly smarter, but it is really nice to not have to mulligan off a volcanic+ emerald opening hand (game 1), if you have an impulse in there... I will keep that every time, just impulsing into a better and more useful land.

-------

Rakso:

"Hmmmm... funny, I thought that WAS mellow for a response to a Freddie thread."

What does that mean, a joke given our past, or a slamm?

I have never given you anything but respect, so I hope that it is not the latter.

-Freddie

[Rakso]

Uh... it's a slam that's a joke.

You have a penchant for going back to old topics like you're 1 year behind.

[Freddie]

Dont make me start talking about Nevs's disk again...

make you cry.

-Freddie

[Fishhead]

> 2. You don't Scroll for Fire against aggro... you usually
> get an Ancestral with a turn 1 or 2 Scroll.

Well, this is neither here nor there about consistency, but I'm not sure I agree with you.  (Actually, I'm not sure you agree with you either, considering that *you* suggested making this particular play in your previous message.  But its a minor point anyway.

> 5. The 4 Merchant Scroll argument belongs on MTGNews.
> Did we ever play 4 Abyss or 4 Morphling in Keeper? You
> play as many ways to get Ancestral as possible while
> staying within the bounds of common sense.

I think this is the major point.  People used to get by with just a Mystical Tutor, so one "Ancestral fetcher" was what common sense said a while back.  Now the answer is generally "two" with people playing one of each.  

Is "three" within the bounds of common sense?  How about going back to "one" again?  Especially with people trying to make Gro work right now and using 4 Misdirections to do it.  I think its a very delicate point to say you will lose consistency by replacing a Merchant Scroll with an Impulse.  Anyway, people argued forever about whether Mystical was better simply because it can fetch off colored cards like Balance or Demonic.  Impulse is another fast search mechanism which can find off colored cards or, best of all for consistency, land.  

> If you think the previous post was arrogant, you ain't
> seen nothing yet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to goad you into being more arrogant, Rakso!  
 
I'm trying to say that if people keep bring the subject of personalities up, it will inevitably start up squabbling again.  I was trying to point out that the threads where Rakso provoked the most negative comments werent MtG related at all, he posted about particular people or about BD.  Thats what I meant by "being more mellow"; I mean just letting BD go and starting fresh here.  

I guess if I wanted more strategy talk and less personality talk I should have followed my own advice and just ignored this issue until it hopefully died on its own.

[Greven]

I peronally like Merchant Scroll a lot, but I realize my opinion doesn't mean a whole lot, if anything at all.

[Freddie]

Here is my current decklist:

Blue:  (20)
Stroke of Genius: R
Brain Geyser: R
Fact Or Fiction: R
Ancestral Recal: R
Time Walk: R
Mystical Tutor: R
Impulse: 3
Mana Drain: 4
Force Of Will: 4
Counterspell: 1
Morphling: 2

Black: (5)
Mind Twist: R
Demonic Tutor: R
Vampiric Tutor: R
The Abyss: 1
Yawgmoth’s Will: R

White: (4)
Dismanteling Blow: 1
Balance: R
Swords to Plowshares: 2

Red: (2)
Gorilla Shaman: 1
Dwarven Miner: 1

Artifact: (1)
Zuran Orb: 1

Mana Sources: (28)
SoLoMoxen: R x 7
Library Of Alexandra: R
StipMine: R
Waste Land: 3
Volcanic Island: 3
Undiscovered paradise: 1
Tundra: 4
City Of Brass: 4
Underground Sea: 4

SideBoard: (15)
Red Elemental Blast: 4
Misdirection: 1
Tranquil Domain: 1
Diabolic Edict: 1
Swords To Plowshares: 1
Enlightened Tutor: R
Circle of Protection: Red: 1
Tormod’s Crypt: 1
Planar Void / Phyrexian Phurnace: 1
Aura Fracture: 1
Compost: 1
Moat: 1 (Still evil)

I decided to basicle swap the 2 edicts to plow's, the 2 vindicate for a counter and a miner, and an impulse for a 4th Tundra.

I have always really liked the idea of dwarven miner maindeck, and it gives me more to do with the volcanics, I have long thought that this was a maindeck card that is continuously overlooked by keeper decks.

I went with plows for creature kill, rather than the edicte, thus seriously decreasing my black mana requirements.

SB wize, I upped the REB's and since I have the 11 white mana sources now, decided I'd go for the evil WW casting of moat.... I still hate that card though.

Tranquil domian is an immediate responce to mono blue (killing multiple back to basics), enchantress and bloodmoon, making the emerald even more useful.

We'll see if I keep that in there though. not sure myself.

-Freddie

[jpmeyer]

The problem that I've found with Impulse is that you need to cut cards that you'd want to find with Impulse to fit in Impulse.