Enchantress tweaks

[BigChuck]

It's not run because basically theres not a whole heck of a lot you are going to want to get. I mean, figure that your only getting 1 land back(which could have been regrowthed). Or possibly 2 enchantress, but i mean, your not going to go apeshit replaying duress's from the grave. It's just not extremely effective when your not playing all kinds of stuff like hymms/sinkholes or balance/other awesome stuff keeper and the like play.

[cooberp]

ZoneSeek--There aren't enough decks out there that rely on targeted recursion to even merit a Ground Seal SB slot.
Captain Cannibus--Fastbond is only good if you have ways to draw into numerous (2-3) lands in one turn repeatedly after your opening 7, otherwise it's just dead way too much of the time.  Just cause it cantrips doesnt mean it's not dead if you don't draw it in your opening 7--I'd rather use that spot on something that cantrips and is useful more often.  City of Solitude plays an entirely different role than Mask.  Spin and I disagree on it--I find it is an autowin against control if it stays on the table and have practically never been caught wishing I could play something during an opponent's turn.  It's a frequent tutor for me.  Spin has had more trouble with it and doesn't trust it nearly as much.  Then again, Spin plays against fewer Keeper decks than I do.
Genesis would be pointless--you don't have Enchantresses in the graveyard That often.
I do run two Mesas.
Will is good when you have lots of instants and sorceries you can replay.  It's not so good when most of your deck is permanents.  Why recast them one by one with limited mana when you can get them all out for 3W?  Will would just be a *very* suboptimal fifth Replenish.

[-CF-]

> Abundance+Sylvan Library = drawing extraordinaire, recursable

With 3 Sylvans, I feel Abundance should certainly be considered. A Sylvan-less Abundance is -good- (can help mana or pressure), a Sylvanless Pursuit isn't. What to take out? (Multiple, early replenishes isn't very good. 3 Replenishes is enough in PandeBurst. You rarely need an early Replenish. Hint hint.)\n\n

[spin13]

While I can't name or number the various ways that Pandeburst has to tutor or find Replenish, I'm guessing its somewhere much higher than 1.  1 is exactly how many ways Enchantress has.  Considering the number of self-sacrificing permanents, and the lack of an auto-win on Replenishes resolution, I don't think you'd want to play less than four.  True, you can sometimes get bogged down with Replenishes, but then again, any deck can also get bogged down with land, etc.

As for Abundance, yes, it is a good card.  Yes, it is good with Sylvan and even better with multiple Sylvans.  However, in a deck with an already high mana curve you have to consider it a late game card.  If you don't get a Sylvan/Abundance down until turn 6 or higher, do you really want to have to wait until turn 9 or higher before it draws more cards than Pursuit would?  Besides, that late in the game, Pursuit is most likely going to draw you 14 cards in those same turns or perhaps one or two more (if you really need to).  As for Abundance on its own, while it is good, it still doesn't do quite enough for 4 mana.  I'd love to run it, but its just not feasible.

-Eric

[BigChuck]

-CF-:
Have you played this deck? While abundance is good with sylvan, pursuit is just better. Drawing seven cards is extremely explosive, and if done, will likely lead to the win. While abudance will let you get rid of useless lands and such, without sylvan, it's not spectacular for four mana. If your playing against control with this deck, then sometimes, you can afford to not draw for three turns via pursuit, and then be able to drop all kinds of threats, etc. Abundance kinda just says,"I don't draw land."

[spin13]

As Chuck said, but didn't clarify, Pursuit is not a bad tool against mono-u decks.  As long as they don't have active Ophidians, it is very reasonable to expect them to topdeck shit for 3 turns.  Between Moat and Abyss, its not unreasonable to be in this situation.  

That being said, if Abundance cost 1G, it would be played.  At 4 mana, though, you can only have so many cards, and most of them must read -resolve me, win target game- (ie, Replenish, Moat, Abyss, PoK (because PoK "wins" -now- a lot better than Abundance does)).

 -Eric

[Forbiddian]

Man that tracerbullet guy is on crack! I played enchantress a few games on apprentice and it was a REALLY tough game (I was playing my signature Forbiddian). He had fast hands with first turn duresses and second turn enchantresses. After that it just didn't matter because everything I countered he just got a draw for and everything that I don't counter is either (simplified I know) a hose/tutor for a hose or a kill card/card advantage card. I dumped my hand game one trying to counter his stuff and he just walked on down with a replenish. The second game he drew 3 moxen and a sol opening hand and mind twisted me for like 4.... mis-d won that game. He drew into a land and an enchantress which I had a handy mana drain for and that was that. phid+ counter everything he had= a good game for me. Third game he played a REALLY stupid game plan. His plan was simply drop/tutor for a hose and try to play it. His card disadvantage tutoring flew and let me win that game. He couldn't play an enchantress until turn 2 (and I had a nifty UU untapped) He never saw another card advantage card except for a late game ancestral.... I played three mis-ds and he thought that I only played one....

Control is supossed to be its worst match up though. I had a fully powered up deck complete with not 1 but TWO hibernations in the board (stompy is played and everybody overextends in my meta).

MAN Enchantress is stable. It looks rickety as hell but when you finally deck test it it runs smoother than a.... something smooth. Enchantress is a god and she sets up Replenish like she was a.... replenish aid... person. Whatever.... It's late. I'm tired and hungry and I want to go eat a sandwich from under my refrigerator. Oh well c ya later.

[]Deace

[cooberp]

Glad you've seen the deck perform, although you certainly make it sound like your opponent could have benefitted by reading the primer.  However, you were playing one of Enchantress' easiest matchups in mono-blue.  There's probably nothing Enchantress loves to see more than tons of counterspells and little disruption/removal/threats.  It's designed to overwhelm even a hand of seven counters and 14 Islands on the table.
Control, by the way, is not its toughest matchup.  It can't beat combo, even bad combo.
Feel free to post more records of Enchantress' exploits if you encounter them.

Dan, I am closing the thread since the tweaks have already been discussed and I'd hate to see it continue on as a misc. Enchantress thread.

As always, feel free to start a new thread when you have more tidbits to discuss.

-Zherbus