Parfait builds.

[Project5]

I've always been saying that I would start playing type 1... I seem to have used a variety of excuses as a way to prevent myself from entering: starving-college-student, no time, no one to play..

No more.  

A friend of mine told me about an upcoming tournament where the field would be primarily Suicide with or without mask, Keeper, and Sligh. TnT may make an appearance but not that he was expecting, and both Dragon and Academy have yet to make a big appearance, most likely because of the presence of lots of Keeper. My guess is that the historic amount of keeper will spawn metagamed TnT by the time that this tournament occurs, as well as lots of sideboard hate for non-basic land.

The winner gets a mox ruby, so I may as well enter.

Now, the starving-college-student excuse does apply, I just wasn't working around it. After researching this forum for the effectiveness of unpowered decks against the expected field, Parfait seemed to stick out in my mind. I know a lot of people prefer Mono-U, but I have this passion for Replenish.

As a nice coincidence, as an ex-extended player, I own most of the parts.

Parfait rough draft (casting cost order)
--0cc 20 cards
12 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Mox Diamond
2 Zuran Orb

--1cc 16 cards
1 Sol Ring
2 Phyrexian Furnace
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Argivian Find
4 Land Tax
4 Swords to Plowshares

--2cc 12 cards
2 Mindstone
2 Scroll Rack
1 Balance
3 Abeyance
1 Soldevi Digger
3 Seal of Cleansing

--3cc 6 cards
2 Story Circle
2 Sacred Mesa
1 Karmic Justice
1 Pariah

--4cc 6 cards
2 Wrath of God
2 Humility
2 Replenish

SB:
1 Ivory Mask
1 Abeyance
2 Story Circle
1 Blood Moon
1 Mountain
1 Ivory Tower
2 Tormod's Crypt
6 To be determined

At the time of this writing, I don't own any power, Library of Alexandria, or a Moat. With any luck I'll have a Moat by game day, and it will fill the second Humility slot. With these restrictions in mind, here is why I made some of my card choices:

The Ivory Mask got sideboarded because the only player-targeted effects that worry me are from Sligh, Dragon, and Academy. Against the last two, the mask is too slow, and against the first, I believe that Story Circles and Pariah can handle the first game.

I'm running Abeyance over Orim's Chant because the cantrip effect moves through the deck faster. I'm unsure if three is one too many however.

Mindstones are in first becasuse a Wrath of God or Humility needs to hit a turn earlier when it matters. They were chosen over Marble Diamond because they can be cycled if no longer needed, or my opponent blows a pernicious deed.

Phyrexian furnaces were maindecked because they can also be cycled, but they can same the game in the face of a Survival of the Fittest or an opposing Yawgmoth's Will. If graveyard hate is absolutely needed, the Crypts are sideboarded.

The rest of the deck is fairly standard according to the archetype.

I'll be testing against Keeper this wednesday, so if there's any interest I'll post the results then.

Thanks for wading through all that, and any comments will be welcome, about either the deck or what I should do with the sideboard.

--Ben

[Razor]

Overall, it looks like a great starter-list.  Pariah may be the weakest of your cards - sideboard it at best.

I was totally surprised by the Phyrexian Furnaces main.

You might need more sources of white mana.  12 plains ought to be 14.  You might try Lotus Petal, too.

Three Seals?  Usually, people main one and use two Aura of Silence over the other two Seals to help disrupt combo and control decks.

I wonder if Mobilize will see play when it becomes legal - the Onslaught soldier-maker enchantment.

As for Moat, I hope you find one.

Ivory Tower may be a good idea.

2 main Abeyance may be safer in the face of an aggro meta.  Sideboard the remaining 2.

The Blood Moon in the SB is truly tech!  I guess you'll likely be able to Tax for the lone mountain or just discard it with a hand of 8 cards to Replenish it, eh?

Abolish apparently help beat the deck's worst matchup Combo, so you might wanna try them out.  In fact the first 8 cards of my SB help beat Combo.

Here is my current SB:
//  Sidebaord: 15
SB:  3 Abolish
SB:  2 Abeyance
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  1 Ivory Mask
SB:  1 Karmic Justice
SB:  1 Replenish
SB:  1 Swords to Plowshares
SB:  1 Masticore
SB:  1 Ivory Tower
SB:  1 Spiritual Focus
SB:  1 Aegis of Honor

[3libras]

i'd play powder keg's over the mind stone , the keg is great creature control and can also disrupt decks like academy and keeper.

[CrazyCarl]

You need to run Orim's Chant over Abeyance.  The Time Walk you gain from the Chant's Kicker can be CRUCIAL against aggro(and even control every now and then).

Also, Aura of Silence is a pain in the ass for most Type 1 decks to deal with.  I'd recommend switching the Seals for them 1 for 1.

I'm also really not a fan of Serra's Sanctum.  It really does only help once you start winning the game, and it's also a Wasteland target.  It's obvious, yes, but one of Parfait's biggests strengths is it's unbreakable mana base.

My friend kl0wn is a pretty experianced Parfait player, i'll try to get him to poke in here sometime soon.

Carl

[K-Run]

My current sideboard looks like this :

2 Abolish                    Vs TnT, Turboland, Gloom.
2 Tormod's Crypt         Vs TnT, combo, reanimator, Enchantress.
2 Orim's Chant             Vs combo, control.
1 Aegis of Honor           Vs Sligh.
1 Jester's Cap              Vs combo.
2 Pariah                      Vs aggro.
1 Moat                        Vs aggro.
1 Replenish                  Vs control, WW.
1 Blood Moon               Vs Turboland, Keeper, etc.
1 Scrying Glass             Vs control.
1 Cleansing Meditation   Vs Enchantress.

[cooberp]

You know that Enchantress is Parfait with all of its matchups improved.
However, it does require power.

[Rogue]

I would have to disagree with you coober. Against decks like mono u with maindeck btb, pop sligh, and suicide, I tend to like a mana base that is so consistent you can look like miss cleo predicting it, 4 stp, and 2 story circles. That said, against control or zoo type aggro, enchantress is a lot better. Also, this guy has no abyss/moat, and those are a lot more important to enchantress than parfait.

[kl0wn]

Quote (CrazyCarl @ Oct. 10 2002,12:12)My friend kl0wn is a pretty experianced Parfait player, i'll try to get him to poke in here sometime soon.

I guess that's my cue to bring you the ultimate in Parfait products.

Without further ado, I give you The Great White Hype; the Parfait deck that you totally need to get funky with when 50% or more of your opponents have a full set of power, duals and Mana Drains and the rest of the field plays to beat them.

The Great White Hype (Octoober, 2002)

Maindeck:

4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
2 Zuran Orb

3 StoP
2 Wrath Of God
1 Balance
1 Humility

2 Sacred Mesa
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Phyrexian Furnace

4 Orim's Chant
3 Aura Of Silence
1 Story Circle
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ivory Mask

4 Argivian Find
3 Replenish

1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Pearl
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus

1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Library Of Alexandria
14 Plains


Sideboard:

4 Tormod's Crypt (Combo/Reanimator)
1 Wasteland (Combo/Control)
2 Abolish (Combo)
1 Replenish (Suicide/Control)
2 Light Of Day (Suicide)
1 StoP (Suicide/Sligh/Reanimator/Random Aggro)
2 Ivory Tower (Sligh/Random Aggro)
1 Thran Lense (Sligh)
1 Humility (Control/Suicide)

Regarding your lack of Power:

Without Black Lotus to do silly first-turn Balance tricks with , it's possible to remove the 4th Argivian Find. The Mox Pearl is probably best replaced by a Plains. Perhaps replace the Lotus with a Lotus Petal (as much as I hate suggesting it).

Library of Alexandria is marginal in this deck once you get Tax/Rack going and can be replaced by a Dust Bowl for mana screwing capabilities. Perhaps you could even run 2 Dustbowls in place of the Lotus and Library. You would then be Ponza Parfait (Parfonza?).

Other stuff:

Serra's Sanctum:

Serra's Sanctum is more of a liability with this build since you want to mulligan agressively for a first-turn Plains/Land Tax and you can't do that with Sanctum. Also, you want your mana base to be the most solid in the game. You laugh at Wastelands. You laugh at maindeck Back to Basics. You laugh at anything that hates nonbasic lands. The abundance of spare nonbasic hate that your opponent will have laughs at your nonbasic lands.

Combo:

Aura of Silence helps a great deal against combo, which is your absolute worst matchup. Combo will eat your lunch without a way to slow it down and eventually disable it (this is why almost half of the sideboard is devoted to stopping combo). Aura makes all of their artifacts and enchantments a bit more balanced (how good is a mox that costs 2 mana?).

Your only hope against Academy is to destroy the cards that allow it to accumulate disgusting amounts of mana, then remove them from the game with Tormod's Crypt/Phyrexian Furnace. These are: Academy, Mind Over Matter, Candelabra of Tawnos and to a lesser extent, Grim Monolith/Mana Vault. You always Crypt in response to anything that lets them even look at their graveyard. Forget an early Ivory Mask, since if they're going off against you they will Capsize your Mask and laugh at you as they Stroke you for a billion.

Orim's Chant helps a lot here too, as they can't do a damn thing if they've been Chanted during their upkeep which buys you a very valuable turn to try to disassemble their combo.

Every other combo deck gives you a bit more breathing room since they're enchantment based and you have 4374983 ways to kill enchantments. Against Trix, they can't combo you out until they have multiple counters in hand. Example:

Them: Illusions.
You: Chant you.
Them: Force.
You: Chant you.
Them: Force.
You: Okay, lifegain on the stack, Abolish.
Them: U R SHIT!!

Orim's Chant vs. Abeyance:

Chant is far superior to Abeyance first because of it's casting cost. When you're trying to plow through a counterwall for a big Replenish, the 1 mana makes a huge difference. Granted, you can cycle Abeyance, but you never want to cycle Chant. Chant is never situational because of the ability to bypass counterwalls and...

Against aggro, Chant spells T-I-M-E-W-A-L-K. Plain and simple. If you are about to get beat down savagely by a horde of creatures, Abeyance lets you draw a card and hope it's an answer. Chant lets you untap everything and draw 4-7 cards if you've got Tax/Rack going (which you should have if you played correctly and mulliganed aggressively into Tax or Rack). This example should demonstrate how important Chant is:

In a game against Reanimator, my opponent pulled a first-turn Hypnox out of his ass and the game went like this:

Him: Turn 1, Swamp, Ritual, Entomb Hypnox, Animate Dead.
Me: Plains, go.
Him: Attack (I'm down to 13).
Me: Plains, Chant you with kicker during your upkeep.
Him: Swamp, go.
Me: Plains, Chant you with kicker during your upkeep.
Him: Swamp, go.
Me: Plains, Chant you with kicker during your upkeep.
Him: Draw, go.
Me: Plains, Humility, go.
Him: Scoop.

Also, Chant gives you the ability to go Turbo-Chant with Digger after a grueling game and just deck your opponent.

Regarding Moat:

I wouldn't play Moat and Humility in the same deck at the same time since it means that you can't attack until you waste one of your cards to blow one up. I have only once experienced a desire to play with Moat and that was against Tubbies when I had been totally removal hosed and got beat down by a bunch of 1/1 artifact creatures.

Well, that's all I can come up with at the moment. I'll be happy to answer any more questions that you might have.

[K-Run]

You run 3 maindeck Replenish but no sideboard Blood Moon ?  

kl0wn's Parfait seems to be oriented to beat control, while mine is designed with the intent to beat aggro.

[Magimaster]

I was under the impression that a Lotus Petal in Parfait would be good.

Land Tax first turn without dropping a land is tech.

Sorry, I don't play parfait.

[kl0wn]

You know, that's a very interesting point. Why in the hell DON'T I have Blood Moon in here? I could probably squeeze in a random Mountain and a Ruby for fun. I guess it's just never ocurred to me that I could use it well, perhaps I've feared any inconsistency that it might cause. It would probably help the combo match tremendously.

About my being more geared to beat control than aggro, I've still never found aggro to be a problem with my build; it's still a near bye. Taking out the 4th StoP, 2 Ivory Towers and the 2nd Story Circle hasn't had a noticeable effect on my aggro matchups. It has gained me miles against control though.

I forgot to mention my top-secret technique when playing the Hype...

I always choose to draw. This cushions my aggresive mulliganing and makes sure I don't have to skip land drops to Tax.

 \n\n

[Magimaster]

Quote (K-Run @ Oct. 10 2002,18:22)You run 3 maindeck Replenish but no sideboard Blood Moon ?  

kl0wn's Parfait seems to be oriented to beat control, while mine is designed with the intent to beat aggro.

I really like the look of Klowns Parfait, in terms of how it would handle against control.

would you mind posting a recent decklist for a Parfait deck geared more towards aggro?

[Project5]

First I'd like to thank all of you for the advice.. I know that my limited type one cardpool can be a design limitation, but I'll do my best to address the issues that were brought up.

Razor: The furnaces main are for silly reanimation tricks, and Wonders/Angers in the graveyard. The reason that they aren't crypts main is because in a matchup without such graveyard tricks, they cycle away.

Serra's sanctum: I'm leaning towards turning this into the 13th plains. After some initial testing, it only seems to tap for one (off the Land Tax)  in the early game against aggro anyway.

Seal of Cleansing over Aura of Silence: Remember that I'm unpowered. My line of thinking was the earlier I drop one of these on the table, the better shot I have at knocking out something important sooner. This is from my old extended mentality: drop the seal before the illusions hits. Certainly the delaying aspect of the Aura is impressive, espcially in multiples, but is the extra turn leeway that an opponent will have with, say, a Survival of the Fittest worth it?

Power Keg: Unfortunately, as good as this is, I'm playing a LOT of artifacts in the range that these would be going off in (0-2cc), and my build has no way to get them back aside from Argivian Find.. and that puts me very behind if I lose a Scroll Rack.

cooberp: I respect your opinion, but I need to construct something less expensive for now: see restriction number one. Wait until I get a real job at the end of this year for the more expensive things to start appearing. On apprentice I'm a big fan of Enchantress.  

Kl0wn: An excellent decklist. I'm wondering why you're maindecking an Ivory Mask after saying that it's too slow against combo. Is there a lot of sligh in your area? I understand the desire to play Chant for it's timewalk nature against aggro, but I fail to see how the Hypnox example works. If a Hypnox gets played, you remove your hand from the game. But on your next three turns, you're not only playing a land, but Chanting with kicker as well. Where is the extra card coming from? I'll assume that after the Hypnox hits, you topdeck the next land you play, thus leaving an empty hand again.

In regards to my choice, it goes like this. I'm packing a full set of StP, two each of Wrath of God and Humility, and an Argivian Find-able Pariah. I believe that is decent to handle most aggro the first game, with the following reasoning in mind.

cooberp reports that Enchantress plays with Duress instead of Chant because his preference is to actually take an opposing card instead of cycling. Parfait in it's mono-whiteness cannot reasonably run Duress. Against control, both cards are equally as good at forcing through a nasty Replenish, but only Abeyance draws you a card if it works. In game one against control with no Scrying Glass sided in, I would rather have a potential two for one than a one for zero. Most control can wait a turn to cast whatever they were going to do that turn, especially against something as slow as Parfait. I'm going to guess that because Enchantress has all these options open, it goes for Duress because of the one for one nature.

Humility/Moat: Good point. Locking oneself down isn't productive at all. When I was planning this deck at first, I had included a Moat and the Furnaces were used to nail Wonders instead of just cycling against aggro.

Why do you play three Replenishes with only nine enchantments, and only four of which can stop creatures? I suppose I'm still unclear on your metagame

Blood Moon: Thanks K-Run for the brief mention of it in a post back in July, it's amazing when it hits the right decks.

Now something that wasn't mentioned: Should I be playing with two or three Scroll Racks?

Again, thanks for all of your input.. I'll post another revisional decklist tomorrow after some decent amount of sleep.

--Ben

[Charlie]

Hypnox only removes there hand if its cast from your hand.

i've found that i like planar birth in parfait can be a good combo card.

[Razor]

Ben, I too am puzzling over whether to play with 2 or 3 Scroll Racks.  I think I'd like to play with 2.5 Scroll Racks.  

I am not worried about playing both Moat and Humility at the same time because other cards (ie.S.Digger or S.Rack) can win in the unlikely event that I am unable to destroy one of them.  {Most people will be overjoyed to see you disenchant one if only out of frustration, no?}

I would like to run Blood Moon in my SB but don't because I lack the Black Lotus.

IMO that Serra's Sanctum is an iffy card simply because it is either ass or god depending on whether you have survived until the late-game or not.  Conversely, I like its synergy with Land Tax and Zuran Orb.  Eg. After ZOrbing away enough land to keep Tax/Rack'ing against Aggro it is cool to be able to tap your only land (a Sanctum) for 3-4 mana.  Since it is unreliable it should probably be removed.

Klown, thanks for the tech-tip on choosing to Draw.  This is one (if not the only) deck where that really makes sense.

I may have to try a P.Furnace, & Cleansing Meditation.

It is a pretty tight deck.  Here is my latest decklist which is 90% carbon-copy from the K-Run July 16 update:

//NAME: Parfait v.1.4
//ray@webinmotion.net
//2002-Oct-10
//
//Damage Disruption: 16
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        2 Zuran Orb
        2 Sacred Mesa
        2 Wrath of God
        2 Story Circle
        1 Humility
        1 Ivory Tower
        1 Moat
        1 Balance
//
//Combo & Control Disruption: 7
        3 Aura of Silence
        2 Orim's Chant
        1 Ivory Mask
        1 Karmic Justice
//
//Quasi-Acceleration: 13
        4 Argivian Find
        4 Land Tax
        2 Scroll Rack
        1 Replenish
        1 Enlightened Tutor
        1 Soldevi Digger
//
//Mana: 24
        13 Plains
        4 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Serra's Sanctum
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Lotus Petal
        0 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Mox Pearl
//
//Sidebaord: 15
SB:  3 Abolish
SB:  3 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  2 Orim's Chant
SB:  1 Replenish
SB:  1 Pariah
SB:  1 Spiritual Focus
SB:  1 Light of Day
SB:  1 Ivory Mask
SB:  1 Karmic Justice
SB:  1 Aegis of Honor
//
//Considerations:
//Erase SB over Abolish
//Scrying Glass SB
//Karakas main
//Masticore SB
//
//End

[Zherbus]

Moved to Extreme Vintage. We like good productive topics

[Iuewen]

Ahh I see the discussion continues  Razor and I had quite the deliberation on Parfait deck options the other night.

I see some points to address.

Humility/Moat: The thing about moat is, while it spells game over for any aggro deck out there, it does nothing vs control except cost you 4 mana or cast them a big stroke. Humility on the other hand weakens everything to token kill level. Another mark against moat is that the hardest aggro game you are going to have is probably going to be TnT, and Wonder spells doom if you only have a moat played.

Serra's Sanctum: I know a lot of people like this card, but really, it only weakens the deck. Sure, it produces faster pegasus tokens, but why are you using mesa to mass armies if you arent already winning? And if you are, then why does it matter if you kill them 2 turns faster? Sanctum weakens your mana base. It can be a dead land, which is always bad, and it is a wasteland target. On top of that, you can't tax for it. This may not sound important, but before you get tax/rack going you very well might end up taxing down to only having 1-2 plains left in your library. When you do drop that rack and want to use it, you have to ditch good cards to get it going instead of plains. All of these factors together make it a sub-par card for Parfait.


Few other things:

Furnace over MD crypt: Honestly, you can recur anything multiple times, forever if you get a digger. Furnace is very slow at what it does, and if you want to hit something other than on the top, then you have to sac it. Its much more efficient to be able to drop a 0 cc and remove the entire thing. I guess its just a matter of preference however.

Keg: Why? It kills your lifelines, and dosent help you much at all.

Razor, comments on your considerations: Erase isnt used for the same reason as Abolish. Abolish is there to stop combo decks from going off. Erase is just removal, and you already have seals and auras to do that for you. Plus they have better synergy with Replenish  Karakas is much worse than a basic plains. It adds 1 white mana, it has an effect you will never use, you cant tax for it, and it gets hit by wasteland. See comments on Sanctum. And.... only 1 Replenish???

Thoughts, comments, and rude remarks welcome.

[K-Run]

Sanctum is funny if you don't own a Lotus. At least you'll feel what it's like to tap and sac a permanent and get 3-4 colored mana from it. Otherwise I would stay away from it.

Moat is best as a sideboard card vs Sligh and Stompy. I guess it's a matter of metagame. 75% of the time, Humility is better but there's still those long nights with your little cousins where a Moat proves to be invaluable.

[Razor]

Raph, would you please post your latest decklist?

Since our metagames are very similar (Montreal/Quebec City and Toronto) it'll be interesting to compare notes.

Anyone tried Holy Light?  It seems subpar since it is not an enchantment.  It would seem to combo well with humility.  But, then so does Sacred Mesa.  Neverminding....

Holy Light:
  Info: Color=White     Type=Instant               Cost=2W              DK(C3)
  Text(DK+errata): Nonwhite creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn.

I'm still out on the Tax:Rack ratio.  4:2 seems to work, though.

Anyone started SBing a CoP: Artifact for TNT yet?

I am still unsure why 4 main Argivian Find *isn't* excessive.  It seems that unless the opponent wrecks parts of the Parfait "house" then they are usually losing.  And, if they do wreck part of the house, then Argivian Find fixes the house which makes A.F.s invaluable.  ie.Even when I have a couple in my hand with no graveyard targets I still feel all warm and fuzzy.

Sanctum is coming out for a humble Plains for the plethora of sound reasons posted.  It is alas another "win-more" card, imo.

[Fastbond]

What's the opinion on weathered wayfarer in parfait?

-It can act as a pseudo fifth land tax.
-It can fetch Library of Alexandria in the Land no Scroll Rack scenario to gain card advantage.
-It can fetch Serra's Sanctum to gain massive amounts of mana with very little land in play.
-it can fetch wastelands, strip mines when neither are very useful in hopes of topdecking more useful cards.
-It can swing for one and block.  

Negatives:

-it's a creature so it's easily killed.  It can use it's ability in response to the abyss so you wouldn't be down any cards.
-Your opponents creature kill cards are no longer dead.  But the mana used to find an answer to weathered wayfarer is that which could be used to do more degenerate things like Yawgmoth's Will for example.
-It doesn't have very good Synergy with Humility.  However, even if he only fetches one land it's still a good deal.

I think Weathered Wayfarer should be tested in the Enlightened Tutor slot. Usualy, Enlightened Tutor is used to fetch scroll rack.  Scroll rack is usually countered.  Now you're down a card.  Weathered Wayfarer is another threat because it's able to fetch Library which is uncounterable.  Parfait's toughest matchup is combo which sometimes uses force of wills for protection but run no wastelands.  Combo can just force of will scroll rack and that'll usually be enough to keep parfait in check.  But combo will have no answer to library so parfait will be able to stay cards ahead.

[kl0wn]

The purpose for the Ivory Mask main is because if you play it against Sligh, you just win. There are often games in which Sligh burns and beats you down to very little life, and the only way they can kill you is to throw fire at your head since you've got the board locked up with a Mesa. Ivory Mask lets you ignore the burn.

Regarding the 3 Replenish/9 Enchantments issue, there are actually a total of 12 enchantments maindeck. The 3 Replenishes are there because against control, Replenish often functions like Yawgmoth's Will; if one resolves late game, you just win. The overall strategy of the deck is to have more must-counters than the control deck because if the game goes as long as you want it to, they will run out of rescources and be completely defenseless against whatever you want to do to them.

In short, Replenish is the nut against control. I side in the fourth whenever I see blue mana.

About the 4 Find issue: Find is the nut part 2 against control. Between 3 Replenishes and 4 Argivian Finds and the rest of the real spells in your deck, you officially have more must-counters than they have counterspells/enchantment removal/artifact removal.

With the Tax/Rack engine going, you tend to draw enough of these threats to overrun the opposing control deck's defenses. Which bring us to...

The number of Scroll Racks issue:

If you get Tax/Rack going, you will most likely win; you need to get Tax/Rack going early and often. This is why I run three; to increase the odds of drawing one and to have more handy in case one is destroyed early on. If you draw another Scroll Rack when you already have one out, you simply Rack it back on top of your library for later use.

I play three to increase the odds of drawing one, I don't play four because three is enough to draw one consistently and they're not cumulative.

Fastbond: You never want to play a creature in Parfait as it makes all of your opponent's useless creature removal not so useless and it also gets killed by your own mass creature removal. The only creature that I would concievably play maindeck in Parfait would be an Academy Rector that costs 1W or less. This excludes the possibility of a transformational beatdown sideboard if White ever gets a decent beatdown creature like Phyrexian Negator or a white Nantuko Shade. Haunted Angel held my interest for a little while in this respect, but it just didn't pack enough punch.

[cooberp]

Enchantress added black just so it could play Duress over Chant/Abeyance.  The ONLY time that Chant/Abeyance are as good as Duress is when you are about to force through a Replenish that includes City of Solitude.  Otherwise, there are 3 scenarios:

1. They have 0 counters.  You waste a card with Chant and Abeyance cycles.
2. They have 1 counter.  They're not going to counter your Chant/Abeyance, obviously, so you get to force a spell through.  One spell.  Then, they still have their counter for whatever you'll do next.
3. They have 2 or more counters.  They trade one for one, which is what counterspells are meant to do.

By contrast, with Duress:

1. They have 0 counters.  You take WHATEVER threat is biggest in their hand.  You also stop first-turn Ancestrals if you go first with this.
2. They have one counter.  Not only do you get through your spell, but they lost their counter so you have free reign until they draw another one.
3. They have 2 or more counters.  Duress not only eliminates one but shows you how many counters they are holding, which is critical information.

Duress was SO superior that it was worth adding a color.  Then Demonic Tutor, the Abyss, and Words of Waste joined the party.

[pernicious dude]

Project5 mentioned expecting Suicide, but sides Ivory mask.
Seems to me Duress, Hymn, Mind Twist and Edict all target.
Maindeck it, man!

[cooberp]

Yes, they all target...and they all hit WAY before an opponent will get to 2WW.  By the time you can cast Mask, you've weathered the disruption.  By then you want Moat.

[Project5]

It's cool that enough people like Parfait that it got moved into this forum  

My mistake on the Hypnox, I filed that one away mentally with the rest of the pure comes-into-play creatures.

Kl0wn: I see what you mean about the replenish now, when I was counting your enchantments, I ignored Land Tax because if any of your other enchantments are out, your opponent will go for them first or lose. I was merely pointing out that you didn't seem to play many things that stopped aggro compared to other lists in this thread, and I'm expecting to go up against more aggro at this tourney than you seem to be describing in your metagame.

Thanks for the tip about the Scroll Racks, after some fishbowling last night checking for the average turn a Humility drops, your point about three scroll racks seems right.

pernicious dude: I sided it because it'll only be useful against sligh. I'll know closer to the day how many people will actually be playing it, but there's very little that can be done about black hand hate. The most I can hope for is a topdecked Story Circle or Humility against Suicide if they pull that. It should be noted that Edict does little against Parfait... and that can be quickly undone with 1W.

cooberp: if a Chant or Abeyance lands, the Parfait player can cast more than one spell; they have the rest of the turn to do as they please. I also am aware that Duress provides valuable information, and if it were white I'd be packing four in Parfait. I'm saying that if Duress is unavailable and a player still needs to get through counters, Abeyance is better than Chant because it cycles. If the Parfait player also needs time against aggro, Chant is better because it does both but at the cost of a card if it works. If you weren't playing Duress, which would you choose based on your metagame?

If I'm packing more main deck creature hate than Kl0wn, I think that I can get away with Abeyances.

And this might be a narrow application, but Abeyancing someone in responce to a casting an Illusionary mask feels wonderful.

CoP Artifacts: That's a good sideboard suggestion, but should the Rune of Protection be considered as it cycles? If it's being sided in, then this is less of an issue, but it may come up. (cycle it and then Replenish maybe?)

Artifact mana: What do all of you think about artifact acceleration beyond power? Because I don't own any, I'm stuck with the Sol Ring, Mox Diamond, and some Mindstones. Because Land Tax requires keeping less land than your opponent, has running out of mana during your turn been a big enough issue to warrant running Mindstones over the power? Like if Sligh were getting along fine with two mountains and you needed a Humility and Ivory Mask. If no, why not? And if so, would you run Mindstones or something else?

--Ben

Edit: I can spell, really.

[kl0wn]

Quote  you didn't seem to play many things that stopped aggro compared to other lists in this thread, and I'm expecting to go up against more aggro at this tourney than you seem to be describing in your metagame

I don't run as many things that hose aggro because they're overkill. I've been taking away from the autowin-against-aggro aspect to strengthen the deck against control and combo. Its unnecesarry to win more against aggro if you also need to be able to win against control. My deck still makes aggro cry like a little girl with a skinned knee.

Quote If I'm packing more main deck creature hate than Kl0wn, I think that I can get away with Abeyances.

If you play Chant over Abeyance, you don't need to pack more maindeck creature hate, resulting in having less dead cards if you do end up playing against control. Not to mention, the reduced casting cost of Chant is much more important than it seems (especially if you're unpowered).

I understand that you don't expect much control in your environment, but it always helps to be prepared. What happens if a skilled Keeper player shows up? More than likely you'll have to face him if you make it to the finals (which you probably will). In that situation, its best to be ready to take down control.


Regarding COP: Artifacts: Why bother wasting space on something so narrow? If there's one thing that White does well, it's kill artifacts (and creatures). You should just run more enchantment/artifact removal instead of such a narrow card.

Quote ...there's very little that can be done about black hand hate. The most I can hope for is a topdecked Story Circle or Humility against Suicide if they pull that.

Try siding in extra Replenishes and Light of Day. That way when you hit 4 mana, you have 6 cards that just say "I win". If Suicide thinks Moat is bad...


Also, regarding the artifact mana issue: you should be playing Marble Diamond over Mind Stone. Parfait is very hungry for white mana and you'll never want to cycle your artifact mana.
Something worth considering is City of Traitors as well. Sol Ring is God in this deck and it doesn't hurt to have more than one, if only a temporary one. Not to mention, it kills itself when you play a land so you can still Tax. It has excellent synergy with Marble Diamonds too.\n\n

[Project5]

Evening everybody.

I just came back from our magic shop after testing against Keeper. I figure that at least some of you would be interested in what went on  

Here's what I'm playing:

Parfait, draft 2.
4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
2 Zuran Orb
2 Ivory Tower
2 Phyrexian Furnace
3 Aura of Silence
1 Balance
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Argivian Find
2 Replenish
3 Orim's Chant
2 Sacred Mesa
1 Soldevi Digger
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pariah
2 Story Circle
1 Moat
1 Humility
2 Wrath of God
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
14 Plains
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Diamond

SB:
3 Abolish
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Mountain
1 Blood Moon
2 Replenish
1 Orim's Chant
1 Karmic Justice
1 Aura Fracture
1 Rune of Protection: Artifacts
1 Light of Day

I'm not sure of my opponent's decklist, but I told him to check this thread out.

Game one I get a first turn Land Tax off drawing first (thanks Kl0wn) and face a Gorilla Shaman. It swings for one for a few turns, and I'm stuck with two Zuran Orbs in my hand. After one turn where my opponent tutors for something, I cast the Scroll Rack thinking he'll monkey it on his turn. Instead, he casts Yawgmoth's Will. I go scrolling, looking for a Chant, but only end up with a Swords for his monkey. He cycles his Ancestral and Time Walk, and plays enough land that I'll be taxing for a while on both of these turns.

Then we wait. It starts with some Wasteland on Mishra's Factory action, and ends with me Chanting a Moat out, followed by an Ivory Tower, the second tower getting Manadrained. About eight turns pass here.

I find why he didn't Manadrain the Moat; he plays a Morphling and says go. I return fire on my turn with a Sacred mesa, and he answers with an Abyss so I can't get any decent amount of tokens out with my mana. I play a blue Story Circle shortly afterwards, and we go back to waiting. I don't have enough mana to make a hoard of tokens in the face of his Abyss, so I just leave the Mesa on 1W upkeep mode. In my quest to get more mana for it, I get my hand twisted with a lot of good stuff in it. I rack in responce and give him all of the land that I had just cycled away. Six in play, two in library, and the rest in the graveyard. I need to take out the Abyss to win in a reasonable amount of time.

Then we both fight a pitched battle over a Humility. I drain his hand of Manadrains and Forces, I lose a few Argivian Finds and feel what it's like to have a chant Misdirected.

This emptied his hand though, and I had a furnace chewing on his graveyard. At this point he Has Morphling, no cards in hand, and all of his broken card drawing removed from the game by will or my furnaces. I have Tax and Rack going in addition to Parfait's house of defense. He concedes so that we can move to game two without the wait for my auras to show up.

Game two, I side:
-1 Wasteland
-3 StP
-1 Pariah
+1 Mountain
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Karmic Justice
+2 Replenish

Game two we both manipulate our libraries into this position: he undoubtedly has counters in his hand, two Mishra's Factories on the table, and lots of land. I have a Land Tax, an Aura of Silence, a Scroll Rack, and a Moat, and two less lands than he does.

He plays an Aura Fracture, and blows up my important enchantments. I have the aura nail it so that I can play some other things. The next turn I topdeck a Humility, and wait as his clock of manlands starts. I manage to Stripmine one, and he plays Morphling. I get a Zuran Orb, and we're back to waiting. After what must have been ten turns, he shattering pulses the Rack without buyback (I had another aura) and blows a Powder Keg for zero. I make a blatant play error by not using my newly played wasteland on his factory.. I zorb it instead, along with all of my other land except three plains and a mountain. I was furiously hoping for the blood moon or a replenish, but he plays a Nevinyrral's Disk and disks the place When I'm at three life. I go to Replenish, but he counters, and I run out of time in the face of two factories.

At the end of the game I have a mesa, three replenishes and two scroll racks in hand. He ended the game with a force, a Manadrain, and a Mystical Tutor in hand. I could have plowed through that with more time if I hadn't been making lay errors earlier.

Game three was a non-event as the shop was closing and we were both drained after such long games previously.

So my observations on this. If a Parfait is playing against Keeper, they have adecent chance as long as they move slowly the first game. Walking into Manadrains will kill you, but having Chants aimed back your way isn't bad at all when nothing's really going on. Manlands are an honest pain in the ass, and may warrant the RoP: Artifacts that was previously considered too narrow. Trading that for the Pariah still allows three slots when the StP's come out. Too bad I didn't thank of that at the start of the second game.

After boarding though, I found out that he boarded an Aura Fracture, a Shattering Pulse, and two Nevinyrral's Disks. He was iffy about two Ebony Charms, and decided that I wasn't recursing enough to warrant them for the second game.

Thanks for reading through all of that. Now I have to ask, what would all of you have sided in against Keeper? Would you have kept your Swords to Plowshares? For that matter, does my sideboard look reasonable?

After playing this deck, I do have to say that I love it.

Any comments are welcome: on the deck, sideboard, play tips, or whatever.

--Ben

[Razor]

First off, please note that you're one up on me if you can reliably remember to pay the 1W upkeep cost!

I played a deck 90% identical at a recent T1 tourney in Toronto which is a well-rounded metagame, full of power and talent.

Charlie mentioned Planar Birth being tech.  However, I think that just as good as it would certainly be in the mid-to-late game, it would be just as (or more) assy in the opening gambit.  Planar Birth and Serra's Sanctum are win-more cards, imo.

I find that 3 Replenish betwen main and side is plenty enough.  I note that you were caught with 3 (!) in-hand when you lost game 2.

Also, I took K-Run's advice and removed Moat from my maindeck and moved it to my sideboard.  (Bad synergy - ie.Moat, Humility and Sacred Mesa does not allow you to attack/win until to disenchant your own Moat).  I didn't even need to side the Moat in versus XRobX's SuiBlack.  All Aggro except TNT seems to be a bye!  (K-Run was right, Moat is only fun for playing against your little cousins with).

I used 2 Humility main and that is the most I'd consider running between the main and sb.

The fourth Plowshares should be in your SB if not in your maindeck.

Why not run the fourth Chant main?  It is always good.  Versus Control, reserve your turn for yourself.  Versus Aggro, enjoy a mini-Time Walk or cast in response to a turn 1 Ritual.  Versus Combo, interfere with their spell chains and timing.  You may even be able to mana-burn them to death with it.

I found 1 Ivory Tower main to be sufficient.  I did use a second Tower in my SB versus for use versus non-discard Aggro decks eg.Sligh.  However, it rarely came in.

I liked 3 Aura of Silence (no Seal) main and the 3 Abolish SB.  The foil Abolish look bloody cool, btw!  Abolish is important versus Combo and can be crucial versus Control.  They can even hit Factories remember.

I haven't tried Furnaces, yet.  Versus Keeper, I guess you found them useful enough.  However, I am skeptical that they are the optimal choice for either maindeck or sideboard slots.  I don't think I'd consistently find Furnaces tasty enough to warrant even 1 MD slot.  Tormod's Crypts do the job faster, so I use them over Furnaces SB.

Have you considered using a Scrying Glass [Gzeiger-tech], SB ?  K-Run did suggest it recently to help win Control matchups.  However, I am doubtful that Parfait doesn't have better uses for its mana than Scry-Glassing.

Karmic Justice should probably be maindeck.  My logic is something like this: Your 4 Chants will allow you to play permanents.  If your opponent does not disrupt your permanents he will likely lose.  If K.Justice is in play and he disrupts your permanents he will likely lose.  I used a second one in my SB and it came in versus every blue-based control deck and SuiBlack Aggro with good effect.  (Disk and Keg are some bad I hear)

1 Light of Day is a great SB card!  I sided 1 Spiritual Focus, too but I don't think it is required versus SuiBlack at all.  Ivory Mask is so much better.

Interestingly, I look forward to playing a Spiritual Focus against Combo more than versus SuiBlack.  Why?  I think it will make most of their draw-7's, draw-14's that give up to 14 life!

Main 1 Ivory Mask and SB a second.  It utterly stops Combo from decking/killing you, Sligh from burning/Scrolling you and Sui from discarding you.

I have no experience with the Blood Moon SB trick.  Is it a good idea versus non-basic dirt decks?

I didn't miss Sanctum which I sub'd out for a 14th Plains.  I used my Library for mana most of the time even when my hand was full.  Tax/Rack is probably more than enough of a drawing engine.  Switching Library for a 15th Plains is something I may test.  Sure, Library of Alexandria can help in the early game, though more often than not it gets Wasted.  I am uncertain whether it is worth the risk of permitting the disruption of Parfait's otherwise bomb-proof mana-base.

Like you, I left out the Lotus Petal which I didn't miss having much at all.

I am still curious to see if either RoP: Artifacts or CoP: Artifacts make the cut.  Factories, Stacker, are TNT are common enough to warrant their consideration.

Pariah is not necessary at all in my humble opinion.  I don't doubt that is is effective in the mid-game versus Aggro decks.  I just doubt that Parfait needs much SB help to beat Aggro decks.  Hence, I mainly SB to improve matchups versus Combo and Control, not Aggro.  [Don't forget that even when Replenished onto an untargettable Morphling Pariah cannot prevent Morphie's stack tricks from killing you]

Aura Fracture SB?  Why?  You have 3 Abolish (which are superior to Aura Fracture versus Combo) and 3 main Aura of Silence and all those Replenish and Argivian Finds.  What are you worried about enough to SB an Aura Fracture?  If you're worried about Enchantress use: Cleansing Meditation.  This, despite the obvious synergy between A.Fracture and L.Tax.

I too lacked a Lotus in my deck.  However, despite my doubts, I kept the fourth Argivian Find main and still found it to be quite useful in every matchup.  Plan: Get a Lotus.

I liked the 3rd main Scroll Rack in my deck for the reasons KlOwn mentioned.

Has anyone else considered dropping Soldevi Digger from this deck?  I do not like how it reduces the effectiveness of my Replenish.  Perhaps, I simply need to be more discerning of when to activate it.

I'd also like to note that among those who commented on my deck at the tourney, only BeBe correctly identified it as a Control deck.  Everyone else considered it to be rogue a Combo deck for some reason.  The supportive Tax/Rack drawing Combo seems to disguise the deck's true purpose: Control.  My guess is that only the old-school players (like BeBe) really remember how strong white control really was.  Many newer players automatically interpret the term "Control Deck" to refer exclusively to "Blue-based Control Decks".  Parfait belies their thinking.

So, in summary, I suggest:
-1 Tower, MD
-1 Moat, MD
-1 Pariah, MD
-1 Phyrexian Furnace, MD
-1 Aura Fracture, SB
-1 Replenish, SB

+1 Karmic Justice, MD
+1 Chant, MD
+1 Plowshares, MD
+1 Ivory Mask, MD
+1 Tower, SB
+1 Ivory Mask, SB

These are my humble suggestions for your consideration.

BTW, I too love this deck!

[Raven]

Interesting Razor, that you take interest in the decks that I too take interest in. FEB, Stasis, Parfait.

Just wondering if parfait is a tournament worthy deck? I mean to be honest my stasis deck is very borderline due to time limits, but howling mines can make for quick games. Parfait seems extreamly slow, and like it would time out in a tourney.

How do you play the deck in tourneys? Is there some secret speedy SB tech to win the life war in game 2? Or just play massive life gain?

[Project5]

Thanks for the reply Razor.

Planar Birth: this probably is too narrow in its focus. I was thinking it would be useful if an opponent was either playing LD or if they were consistently disenchanting the scroll rack. In the second case, you could over Land Tax every turn to get the lands out of your library and then Planar Birth. As this rarely happens, and if it did it would warrant perhaps two copies of the birth, I'm thinking of letting it go.

Replenish: I was caught at the end of the game with three in hand, but note that my opponent has one Manadrain and one Force of Will. It would have taken all three to get through, and there isn't much else i'd rather sideboard in instead against control, espcially when I know they're packing Nevinyrral's Disks.

Moat/Humility: I seem to have many games against aggro players where they have enough 1/1s out with the Humility that I find myself still searching for an answer. Granted they have poor synergy with each other, but if both are in play against aggro, you have all ready won the game. They'll need to get through both in order to beat you, and you can wait nearly indefinitely to build up an army of tokens, and then disenchant the Moat and attack. I'm still not convinced about this argument either way, but I'm still testing both. My friend lent me an Italian BB Moat so I felt the urge to test with it included first

Swords + Chant: These two issues were connected in my deckbuilding reasoning. StP is best against aggro, and can sometimes take a manland or Gorilla Shaman against control. Chant was chosen over Abeyance because it also gives a pseudo Time Walk against aggro, and both allow the forcing of spells through counter walls. The reason I went three and three is because against aggro, Pariah acts as both creature destruction and a pseudo Time Walk. It can be both Replenished and found by Argivians, whereas both Chant and StP cannot. Ask cooberP how he feels about its inclusion in Enchantress, or read (I think) the third page of 'Enchantress Onslaught Changes' where he goes over it.

The fourth Chant is in the SB because it's useful against Combo and Mono-U. Keeper doesn't have enough counters main to warrant its inclusion.. you'd rather see a Karmic Justice because Keeper will let the enchantments into play and Aura Fracture or disk them.

Ivory Tower and Mask: Most Parfait run one Ivory tower in the main deck for good lifegain, and also run an Ivory Mask. When asked why the mask was maindecked instead of in the SB, Kl0wn replied that it defeated Sligh, and Razor replied that it was good against combo. I've felt that a second Ivory Tower is just as good against Sligh as an Ivory Mask, and comes out faster. Against combo, Ivory Mask is just too slow and most have ways of dealing with it. The best route against combo is Chant and the numerous disenchant effects to prevent them from getting to the point where an Ivory Mask is needed. Also, the two Ivory Towers interact very well with humility.

Phyrexian Furnaces: The furnaces are main because TnT is packing Wonder. If a Humility is on the board, and then the TnT player plops a Wonder in the graveyard, all their 1/1s gain flying. If you had a Moat out instead, then all the full-powered artifact creatures will be coming over to pay their respects. Against Keeper, they make Will less powerful by hitting Time Walk or Ancestral. In short, they're not stunning against anything in particular, but they make life a little easier. If you see one against a deck that has no recursion, just cycle them away.

Scrying Glass: great SB tech, I just don't own one yet. It would probably take the place of the Planar Birth.

Aura Fracture SB: this is here to stop combo. If one of these is forced out early, you're sitting pretty until they find a good way to get rid of it. It also happens to help against Enchantress, and can be Replenished where Cleansing Meditation cannot.

Soldevi Digger: dropping cheap victory conditions is no good in my opinion. Generally, don't play even play this until very late in the game when most of everything else you have has ended up in the graveyard, including Replenish. Starting to dig before you're spent has seemed needless in my testing, because find and Replenish do such a good job of swinging the game back to your favor. Playing it early also increaces the chances that someone will destroy it, and if decking becomes a reasonable way to win the match, you will need to spend a find to get it back.

The Karmic Justice is sided because no one will be packing enough non-creature destruction to phase you game one. Against good aggro, topdecking this in a moment of need will not save the game. In game two when they're fearing Humility and Moat and have boarded accordingly, then it's incredible.

Raven: This deck is tournament worthy, but it is not fast. Trying to play it quickly often leads you straight into Manadrains. I'd say it's a bit faster than Stasis as it can amass a huge army of tokens in a few turns. I used to play Howling Mines in Stasis in the old extended, and I believe that Parfait plays out its games a little faster because decking is not the only route to victory, and less time needs to be spend calculating what gets countered and what doesn't as that's a moot point in Parfait.

--Ben