Parfait builds.

[Rogue]

No. All the cards in Parfait are devoted to favor/take control, even the kill mechanisms. If you really want to speed up the deck, you have to learn to play faster.

     THANK YOU! Somebody give K-Run a medal for saying that. Parfait is a dirt slow deck. You win faster through practice. I put in 1 card to speed my deck up: planar birth. It is not nearly as bas as mobolization or anger. True, it isn't ALWAYS good, and I probably shouldn't run it. But many a time I have ended games, or considerably sped them up, by casting it late/with a balance. Other than that, you just have to have experience. Say game 1 against stompy for example. You have out a moat, and an stp for a lyrist. Make some damn tokens, and win. Don't play slowly to be careful, or insist on decking him. /end rant/
     As for card choices. I tend to think of pariah as an expensive, sorcery stp with a nice fog bonus. However, it is findable. Thats a big deal. If you feel like there is room, keep it. Otherwise, I'd say it's fine togo either way.
     Mobolization-BURN THESE! Without humility, these things are just worse. With it, it really doesnt matter. Mobolization is never better, and is often worse. NO REASON TO KEEP THEM!
     LOA-The deck has land tax. Period. RUN THEM!!!
     As for Klown and his build, he clearly has "ZVI-IDUS". This is not a bad thing. He simply plays better with a build which is personalized to his liking. The difference between him and a bunch of scrubs who don't run good cards is he has arrived to his changes through reason and good thought process, not "I need to win 20 turns faster with a slow deck". His deck is fairly metagamed, and works well for him. No reason to complain about it.
     Lastly, about your land count. I wouldn't drop a plains, because you are missing 4 mana sources(petal, lotus, pearl, loa) and only gaining 2. You might even be short one plains, along with a mind stone or marble diamond.

[kl0wn]

Wow, I really broke chairs over some people's backs yesterday morning. Perhaps I shouldn't post at 7am...

Don't worry, its only 4am now so everyone's safe.


Rogue, you da' bomb dawg. You seem to have it down.

With that in mind; "ZVI-ITIS" jigga what? JIGGA WHO? Yeah.

Fact is, I've just built my deck according to a healthy and nearly ideal Type 1 environment. Only about 25% of the players on any given Saturday are textbook-definition scrubs. I face a lot of powered, well-built decks and good players, and my metagame is nowhere near inbred like Neutral Ground's.

The evolution of my deck has come through a painstaking process of trial and error along the lines of:

Me: "Self, Replenish really owns U-based control"
Self: "Yes it does, you should play more Replenishes"
Me: "I know, Self, but what do I cut for them?"
Self: "Well, Ivory Tower seems to be wet toilet paper vs. anything but Stompy and bad aggro"
Me: "Wow, Self, you're right. You're my hero."
Self: "Aw, shucks..."

Actually, it was nowhere near this simple as all of the changes took over a year of losing lots of tournaments to finalize, but you get the picture.

I'm not trying to shit in anyone's cereal or say that I'm like better than anyone or anything. I'm just saying that after playing Parfait in a good and powered environment for multiple years, this is the logical evolution of the deck. Just like people have now adopted my 3 Scroll Rack configuration after blasting it for so long, other changes will eventually be adopted and understood as people play the deck more intensely in serious environments.

Anyone else would have come up with just about the same choices if they had been fortunate enough to have the opportunity to play in an environment such as mine on a regular basis.

Its not my intention to put anyone or their environment down, just to point out that I was lucky and had the opportunity to get the jump on the evolution of Parfait tech.

To draw bad analogies, China was the most advanced civilization on the planet for quite a while until European countries started kicking the crap out of eachother and eventually developed the rifle and dominated anyone they could as a result. That's basically the same situation here in Binghamton; we go to war every Saturday afternoon and Wednesday night, and even travel out of town to go to war for big spoils and good times. Who makes top 4/top 8 at every out of town tournament that they attend? We do! We do! (team Ghetto Crackhead Ninja needs cheerleaders; we are now taking applications)

So to make a long story short, I'm just going to back out of this discussion and just work on the Hype primer and horde my tech until its finished. Apologies to anyone who may have cried like a little girl with a skinned knee as a result of my comments.\n\n

[cooberp]

If you want a Parfait-type deck with a better matchup against control, why not just play Enchantress?  It has many fewer dead cards and twice as many threats against control.  I suppose being on the wrong side of nonbasic hate if there's lots of that running around...

[Radjammin]

Ok Ok,
    I have really enjoyed reading about everyone tech out parfait deck with your 4 main deck replenishes and your Armageddon planer birth tricks and how bad LoA is in Parfait, but I have all the power you need to build Parfait and would appreciate a current deck listing from K-Run.  I did catch his sideboard choices...

2 Abolish                    Vs TnT, Turboland, Gloom.
2 Tormod's Crypt         Vs TnT, combo, reanimator, Enchantress.
2 Orim's Chant             Vs combo, control.
1 Aegis of Honor           Vs Sligh.
1 Jester's Cap              Vs combo.
2 Pariah                      Vs aggro.
1 Moat                        Vs aggro.
1 Replenish                  Vs control, WW.
1 Blood Moon               Vs Turboland, Keeper, etc.
1 Scrying Glass             Vs control.
1 Cleansing Meditation   Vs Enchantress.

Mind explaining what you side out.  Most of them I can pretty much guess at.... Like Humilty for Moat, duh.

And Coop, your enchantress deck is a completely different deck, as you have acutally aready stated.  Stop trying to compare it to Parfait.  Parfait is Control, Enchantress is Combo Control(meaning it usually starts out faster)

I like both decks, they just have different matchups.  Parfait just laughs at land destruction, Enchantress falls over and dies.  Enchantress has a chance against keeper, Parfait will probably loose.<-- I stress probably.

[K-Run]

//NAME: Deck Parfait - October 25th, 2002
        1 Tormod's Crypt
        2 Sacred Mesa
        1 Strip Mine
        3 Wasteland
        13 Plains
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Soldevi Digger
        1 Replenish
        1 Karmic Justice
        4 Argivian Find
        1 Lotus Petal
        2 Orim's Chant
        1 Seal of Cleansing
        2 Aura of Silence
        1 Ivory Mask
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Sol Ring
        2 Zuran Orb
        1 Humility
        2 Ivory Tower
        2 Wrath of God
        2 Story Circle
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Enlightened Tutor
        1 Balance
        2 Scroll Rack
        4 Land Tax
SB:  1 Replenish
SB:  1 Jester's Cap
SB:  1 Cleansing Meditation
SB:  1 Moat
SB:  1 Scrying Glass
SB:  2 Pariah
SB:  1 Aegis of Honor
SB:  1 Blood Moon
SB:  2 Orim's Chant
SB:  2 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  2 Abolish

What to side out :

BBS : Ivory Towers, Tormod's Crypt, Ivory Mask, Enlightened Tutor
Keeper : Ivory Mask, Enlightened Tutor, Ivory Tower
Mono-B : Ivory Towers, Humility (except Reanimator), Chants
Sligh : Chants, Tormod's Crypt
TnT: Circles, Chants, Petal


Parfait vs. Enchantress : I don't think anyone can compare both decks as they're quite different. Parfait is an Artifact/Enchantment deck, while Enchantress is an Enchantment/Graveyard deck. Both have their pros and cons; Parfait seems to be more popular because it doesn't require power.

[cooberp]

Rad--fair enough, although if Enchantress is partly a combo deck I must have missed it.  It's a much faster control deck to be sure, but I thought that was a good thing.  Not that I'm ripping on Parfait at all, it's just that speed is always a good thing.
Enchantress doesn't die to land d.  It dies to resolved game 1 Blood Moon/B2B.
K-Run--true true.

OK I'll be quiet about my deck on this thread from now on.  I just feel like Parfait beats aggro by running 20 anti aggro cards, and white doesn't have enough by itself to beat control.

[Fastbond]

How about Convalescent Care?  It combos with mana crypt which this deck wants to add.  And, it draws cards at no mana cost.

[Often Lost]

Hey, Ive been thinking about this, whata you think about 1 MD Forest and Fastbond. With Z.orb you can effiecently play your 3c/4c spells while being able to Tax.

[Raven]

Erm... Fastbond does nothing to improve your matchups. It just speeds your land drop alittle bit. But in order to drop it you need a land tax out and probably a e-tutor to find it. And by that time, the purpose of Fastbond is pointless cause you'll probably already have 3-4 lands in play. Fastbond is good in a deck that can drop it turn 1-2. Not parfait, and to be honest I don't really ever feel pressured to drop more land a turn.

Every time you got the bond, you will be missing the forest, and vice versa. If you really wanna slpash a color, it has to be really worth your while to do so. And Bloodmoon is well worth it since it crushes most of Parfaits weakest matchups.

And I think as far as everyone looking for the "ultimate parfait deck list" it will never exist. Because everyones parfait build should be personallized to there own metagame. I do think Ivory tower is a rather dead card, since everytime I play it, it does nothing to alter the game. Everytime I play it, it has been a game that I won without its help anyways. I think a Zorb + Land tax is enough life gain for the deck. And you can always Dig back your lands and continually gain life.

As far as people saying that parfait has a weak game vs controll. I really don't see how, you have too many potential threats that they have to counter. And you can overrun them with threats from your scroll/tax combo. And just wait to play your key spells when you got a few chants in hand.

[Fastbond]

Quote  And you can overrun them with threats from your scroll/tax combo.

Which is why most people just counter the scroll rack.  Parfait doesn't get very good topdecks.  But Parfait usually has to wait for the threat for the deck to be in hand and for an orim's chant to back it up.  It's hard to get that before somebody hasn't gained control of the game.

[Raven]

I beg to differ, with land taxes, you can get great top decks. You are almost assured you will always draw into a threat cause your taxing all your lands into your hand and playing them.

Tax is not only a combo card with rack, but it helps thin out the deck. Much like survival of the fittest, it's a blessing in disgues cause it eats up your useless cards, and increases the odds of topdecking into threats.

Not to mention you will never have mana problems and can consistantly drop a land a turn. And on alot of occasions I get a land/Mox diamond or a land/mox pearl, or a lotus first turn and can drop the scroll turn 1. With the tech of always choseing to Draw rather than play, we can have more freedom to mulligan. And with that extra card, it can increase our odds of getting viable cards turn 1.

I'll stop now cause alot can be said on the forums, but the best way to experience something is to do it. Play the deck for yourself, play it vs mono-blue. Hell, even switch decks, let your opponent use your Parfait, and you use his mono-blue controll. The matchup is heavily in favor of parfait, however without power it's slightly weakened but that can be said for any deck.

And to be honest, what can anyone really sideboard against parfait? The deck isn't afraid of anyones sideboard. And it's own sideboard gives it the ability to go hate on any of the three types of decks, aggo, controll, combo. The main deck is rather balanced with dealing with all three, but sideboard can favor one tree more than another.

[lambosa]

hi all.

This is my first post, although i've been lurking for a while now.  So i'll try not to put my foot in my mouth...

I have to say, I absolutely agree with the idea of taking some of Parfait's game against aggro and putting those resources into other matchups.  And it seems that the kernel of that idea is the use of more versitile cards:  Chant is not *bad* against aggresive decks, and neither is replenish.

That being said, i'm interested to hear what folks think about Powder Keg in Parfait (I think that it was mentioned in the first page of this thread, but no-one said anything about it).  My own line of thinking is as follows:


-With the removal of Ivory Tower, you blow up your own stuff a *lot* less often.

-Against aggro decks, you have a cheap, recurrable wrath.  I've found that Stompy in particular can still be a pretty scary matchup, with you scrambling for an answer, and without the benefit of tax/rack.  Comments?

-Against control, you kill moxen and enable land tax.

-Against combo, this is the third corner of your disruption, along with Aura and Tormod's Crypt.


Now some of that is untested, in particular the Keg's usefulness against Academy.  But it seems to me that there is a *lot* of synergy between keg and the other cards in the deck, especially Finds and Chants.  I'm testing 3 (!) kegs right now in a powerless deck, in place of a Wrath, Lotus, and Library.  I know that some of you must have tested Keg in the deck before, and i'd love to hear what kind of results people had (especially kl0wn).

Also, if i may address a specific question to kl0wn:

I was interested to find 2 Light of Day and 2 Towers in your board.  Do Sui and Sligh give you enough trouble to side so much against them specifically?  Sui in particular, i find to be my easiest matchup.  But then you are the one with the tournement record...



Ok, thanks guys.  Hope to hear from you.

[Raven]

I don't see Keg as a good card to play. I feel I got enough creature controll with Wrath of God, StP's, Balance, Humility, Mesa, and Story Circle all already maindeck.

Then what other option does keg do for us? Removes artifacts, well we got Aura of Silence for that and Abolish Sideboard. And it would seem that Keg could only be usefull to take out moxen. But by doing this, we would be killing off our own moxen and our own zuran orbs. Not something I really wanna do just to hurt my opponents mana base alittle. If I really wanted to hurt my opponents mana base I would run a couple Armageddons, and a few Marble Diamonds.

I don't see Keg as something beneficial to this deck. We got creature controll comming out our ears, and artifact controll is stable and can be increased after sideboard.

[pernicious dude]

2 Kegs is enough.
4 Kegs in a 1.5 version, to help with the loss of the almighty Balance.

[K-Run]

I've played with 1 maindeck Powder Keg for a while and decided to remove it. Parfait is an Enchantment/Artifact deck, and you don't want to blow your own stuff. Thus, Powder Keg seemed too conditional to me.\n\n

[kl0wn]

Decks run Keg because they don't have good mass artifact and creature removal. Parfait has a ton.

Regarding Light of Day and Ivory Tower, I have dropped 1 LoD and the Towers come in against any aggro deck aside from Suicide (they attack your hand too much for Towers to be useful).


Yes, I know that I said I would withdraw from any further discussion, but I decided to come back for general questions. I'm not that out of touch with typical Parfait.

[Raven]

Quote (kl0wn @ Oct. 27 2002,19:16)I'm not that out of touch with typical Parfait.

What do you mean by this? You don't play Parfait? What do you play then?

[Razor]

lambosa, thanks for joining us!

Raven, KlOwn has told us (several times even) that he is playing "The Grreat White Hype" which he considers a Parfait variant.

I dropped Keg early-on in my testing as it was too self-destructive and not necessary.  

I am not needing to activate Digger too much to win and am considering dropping it altogether.  Anyone else finding the same?

I still don't miss maindeck Ivory Towers *at all*.  My friends are adamant that I play with at least one maindeck "...just in case," but Towers really are *not* necessary 90% of the time.

Planar Birth has proven of mixed worth.  It prevents Land Tax from working unless I have a ZOrb in play (which I usually do).  But, it also helps me to activate Digger, and Mesa.

Fastbond would still be unecessary even it were white.

I SB'ed Karmic Justice because it is only good against decks playing with these common global destruction spells: Disk, Deeds, & Keg.  Neither Aggro nor Combo generally play with these making K.J. too conditional to warrant a MD slot imho.

SB'ed Spiritual Focus might be good against Combo (ie.draw 7's) but is simply overkill versus SuiBlack so I dropped it altogether.

Has anyone else dropped Moat from their sideboard?  I dropped it in lieu of a Humility in my SB (1 MD, 1 SB now).

I mained 1 T.Crypt and am amazed at how many decks it injures if not cripples.

[Raven]

So he does run Parfait and calls it White hype? I'm confused. People can call there deck whatever they want I suppose, but I thought he had dropped the parfait deck altogether, at least thats what that post was suggesting.

Anyways Razor, you pretty much summarized everything up rather well. I agree on all points. I too droped Moat from the decklist altogether. Morphling laughed at it and TnT would pull out a Wonder. The only time I was happy to pull Moat over Humility was vs Stompy/Sligh Matches. But these are already in favor of parfait anyways since you don't need to worry about counters and can drop wrath of gods with ease. And sligh is laughable with story circles, zuran orb, aegis of honor, ivory mask. Even suicide could laugh at moat with hypnotic spectres.

With Moat, you got a 50-50 chance that it will either completly stall your opponent, or do absolutly nothing to help you. At least with humilty it will always help you, even if you still take little 1/1 beatings, its better than takeing a full load of flyers. I would rather have that kind of security from humility, and it can shut down cratures that would otherwise still work under moat, like Goblin Welders, Mox Monkey, Come into play Creatures, Shapeshifters, the list is endless.

I think you get style points for playing Moat, but humility is just a smarter choice. Moat is out from my list, If I expect alot of Stompy, then I would add it to Sideboard but that hasn't happened yet.

Karmatic Justice just sits there and stares back at me. The real way people remove your stuff in T1 is through counters, and it doesn't help vs counters. I don't see enough Tranquilities/Nev's Disk to warrent running it Sideboard, let alone Main deck. And even if people get rid of my stuff, I have no problem casting a replenish or arkivakian finds.

I think we pretty much ruled out Pariah as a bad StP. I still havn't used Ivory Towers once and don't plan on it. A Maindeck Crypt is good tech, and maybe I'll give it a try. It would be alot more usefull to me than an ivory tower, thats for sure.

[Raven]

Oh and dropping the digger, I wouldn't even consider it. I love eating my plains to Zorb, and sticking them back into my deck only to land tax into them on upkeep. I think of digger as my ivory tower cause it feeds my Zorb with constant land, but it's an ivory tower with a much greater ability.

Just think if your in top 8 finals in a tourney (no time limits in finals), that digger becomes a HUGE bomb that is a must counter and will probably win the game for you. It can allow you to slow down your game play alittle bit and make better decisions and give you breathing room so you dont make a mistake in the finals. I think I read somewhere that a guy was playing flawlessly with his Parfait deck in a T1 tourney and smoked everyone up to the top8 rounds, but lost in the finals cause he was rushing (someone forgot to tell him no time limits) and he made multiple game errors that cost him the match.

And I like haveing Digger for casual play as well when your not in a hurry to win in an hour or less. There have been a few games that I have cast orim's chant like 6-7 times off the digger, or reused my wrath of gods a few times to maintain controll. Digger is the white decks regrowth unfortunatly, and it's the best we got so we gotta make do with it.

I wish a new set would produce a white enchantment with better graveyard recursion.

[kl0wn]

I never even bothered buying a real Moat for my deck as Humility is far greater a card. You have to think of it in terms of the philosphy behind Type 1: every single creature in Type 1 needs to do something extraordinary to warrant inclusion in a deck. Whatever the creatures in your opponents deck do, Humility takes it away from them and turns them into Mons's Goblin Raiders that most often cannot even be sacced to Goblin Grenade. Who don't people play with Mons's Goblin Raiders in Type 1? Because they suck. Humility makes all creatures suck. Moat sits there and stalls the ground-pounders until their controller can draw some sort of disenchant effect (most often a creature with an ability ie: Elvish Lyrist) to remove the Moat and continue the assault or your opponent just casts Morphling and flips you off as he leaves to get lunch after pummelling you like a little girl.

Some creatures that still function fine under Moat and are commonly played in Type 1:

Morphling
Gorilla Shaman
Hypnotic Specter
Elvish Lyrist
Druid Lyrist
Serendib Efreet
Anything in TNT

Creatures that function fine under Humility:

Absolutely nothing.

The purpose here is to shut down creatures. Moat shuts down some creatures. Humility shuts down every single card with a power and toughness. Granted you can still be attacked by 1/1s, but for the sake of Pete, you can trade forever with your Mesa tokens. I prefer to trade a 1/1 token for a Morphling, than to have said Morhling kill me.

I understand that this point has been made pretty clear above, I just couldn't resist the urge to beat it into the ground.

From the Hype perspective:
I didn't appreciate Karmic Justice much when I tested it. The problem is, no decks that you should really be worried about run that much permanent kill to make a 2W enchantment with that ability worth it.


Oh, and for the record regarding The Great White Hype:

I have an atypical Parfait build that I have been working on for over a year. People are always telling me that I should be building the deck differently than I have it configured. I always hear "that card sucks in Parfait", so fine...I'm not playing Parfait; I'm playing The Great White Hype.
This way, I don't have to listen to people rag on my deck all the time or how bad Parfait is in general and I also get to distinguish my deck from more standard Parfait builds.

The name is derived from this one time up at a gaming store in Syracuse, NY, after I had been terrorizing their Type 1 tournaments for about 3 months straight, taking 1st (this was the tournament where I even had a 100% game win record), 2nd and then 3rd in that order with my nearly unpowered "mono-white" deck in fields full of nasty competition. After I had trashed nearly every player there aside from the top 2, all of the little kids were running around trying to get their hands on Sacred Mesas and the store jacked their prices on them from $3 up to $12 in a matter of minutes. So I was like "man...I think my deck is the most overhyped piece of garbage ever", and I figured The Great White Hype was a fitting name. Although its been overhyped, it still is about as unbeatable as any deck should be before they start restricting shit.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to go all Legend here by making 'kl0wn White', I'm just trying to distinguish my deck from standard Parfait builds. It really doesn't play like a standard Parfait build either (although it started out as one); it has a much more proactive feel to it.

I have been debating hording tech, but I figured that its a free country so here is my most recent decklist for those of you who want to be in the know:

The Great White Hype (October, 2002)

Maindeck:

4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
2 Zuran Orb
(9)

3 StoP
2 Wrath Of God
1 Balance
1 Humility
(7)

2 Sacred Mesa
1 Tormod's Crypt
(3)

4 Orim's Chant
3 Aura Of Silence
1 Story Circle
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ivory Mask
1 Blood Moon
(11)

4 Argivian Find
3 Replenish
(7)

1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
(5)

1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Library Of Alexandria
13 Plains
1 Mountain
(18)

Sideboard:

3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Abolish
1 Replenish
1 Light Of Day
1 StoP
2 Ivory Tower
2 Blood Moon
1 Plateau
1 Soldevi Digger
1 Humility
(15)

This is the most current decklist I have for it. I believe it is the most advanced and logical build for any Parfait deck if you want to beat control as easily as aggro (but lose horribly to Academy).

[Raven]

Sorry Kl0wn, I didn't mean to make you post your personalized decklist. Belive me, I know what it's like to come up with a somewhat original idea only to have a bunch of scrubs copy it.

:Edit: Um, that didn't come out right. I'm not implying that anyone here is a scrub. I'm just saying that I have come up with original ideas before only to have little kids in my meta copy the idea and claim it as there own.

Parfait (or whatever you wanna call it) is a specialized deck. It's a deck that takes time to transform to your meta, it's like a lumpy piece of clay that needs to be molded into something and eventually hardened. And what could be working great for you, could be not so great for someone else.

Mad props to the store owner for ripping off all those scrub kids on the mesa's.

And this is irrelivant, but what would you say is the going price for Beta StP's, Beta Wrath of God's, and Beta Balance? I'm sure alot of you run an all black border version of the deck, and maybe you even got some for trade.

[Razor]

RE: Wild Pegasus Tokens

What are you guys using?

At first, I tried using dice on a single Unglued Pegasus Token to keep track of lil horsies.  But, I found people got suspicious and confused.

I found it easier to convert twenty $0.10 Mesa Pegasus cards into Pegasus tokens than to actually collect twenty Unglued or DCI Pegasus tokens.  I erased four places on each revised edition Mesa Pegasus card: "Mesa...", "1W" casting cost, "Summon...", and "..., Bands".  Since the underlying card-stock is white these cards-cum-tokens look minty-fresh.

[Raven]

Currently I own 6 Unglued Pegesus Tokens, so when I play I can only make 6 creatures for the kill  I used to just turn over cards in my graveyard and use them but that got bad when recursion stuff happens.

And dice are just really dumb, cause it's hard to keep track of which ones are tapped and which ones are not. And people accuse you of cheating, and you lose style points for useing dice.

I never saw the DCI one, but I want to now, if it's a cool picture I would like to use them instead. Mad style points for useing the original mesa pegesus as tokens. I'v seen people use all kinds of things as tokens, one guy had some old ninja turtle action figures, and he used them for token creatures. Here comes Leonardo the flying 1/1 ninja turtle who invents stuff and uses a staff as a weapon!

On to the land department, I can't and wont belive that everyone just uses 13-15 regular plains. I am trying to collect 14 Unglued plains cause they are so damn cool looking with the borders. And other than that I would probably use Beta Plains. I'v seen people use all foil lands, but thats just fruity.

[CrazyCarl]

Quote  I'v seen people use all kinds of things as tokens, one guy had some old ninja turtle action figures, and he used them for token creatures. Here comes Leonardo the flying 1/1 ninja turtle who invents stuff and uses a staff as a weapon!

Ahem, that was Donatello.  Leonardo was the pansy with the 2 Kitanas

Anyways, Bryce(kl0wn) uses super secret, ultra rare lands.  If you've been playing long enough, you too can use these rare gems

I know I didn't say anything useful, but I can't let the Ninja Turtle's honor go to shame

Useful Tidbit:  Playing against Parfait(Hype whatever) you'll learn how powerful Humility is.  I know of only ONE occasion where Moat would have been better than Humility, and that was just freaky(it had to do with drawing ass for approximatly 200 turns).

Carl

[j_orlove]

Quote Creatures that function fine under Humility:

Absolutely nothing.

Squee, Goblin Nabob.  
Not that you ever actually cast him, but he still does what he's supposed to.


Kl0wn, I'm sure there's a reason for the plateau in the SB, but it seems kind of random.

[skirge5]

Tokens are one of the most fun parts of the deck. Im thinking about going all Wakefield style and using Plastic Dinosaurs. I like the using old Peguses (pegusie?) cards. Makes it look realy sharp. If you have alot people of the other sex (or are playing your significant other) Clothing works well. Sorry if anyone finds that one tacky.

So that this doesnt seem totaly off topic, i guess i will ask some tech. For those of you who play planar rebirth, how does that do against a keeper-esque manabase? I guess it would do well if you keep all of your wastelands\stripmines in the graveyard, but other then that seems kindoff bad. Has it tested out well?

I am glad this tread is up, i wanted to play control in type 1 but have never had the cash for the pwer most run. This works realy well to fill that slot and the cards are realy easy to find. Thank you K-run, Kl0wn, Raven, and every one else helping on this thread.

[Rogue]

Since there are 2 distinct versions of parfait here, I figured to mess with your heads I would post my own.

        13 Plains
        3 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Diamond
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Sol Ring
        
        2 Sacred Mesa
        1 Soldevi Digger
        
        4 Land Tax
        3 Scroll Rack
        2 Zuran Orb
        
        2 Story Circle
        2 Humility
        2 Aura of Silence
        1 Seal of Cleansing
        2 Ivory Tower
        
        4 Argivian Find
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        2 Orim's Chant
        1 Balance
        2 Wrath of God
        1 Replenish
        1 Planar Birth
        1 Enlightened Tutor

SB:  2 Replenish
SB:  3 Tormod's Crypt
SB:  2 Abolish
SB:  2 Orim's Chant
SB:  2 Pariah
SB:  1 Moat
SB:  1 Cursed Totem
SB:  1 Karmic Justice
SB:  1 Thran Lens

I have taken some of what everyone has said, and formed my own ideas. First off, towers have been good to me. They have allowed me to ignore things like stompy(a VERY annoying deck) and have been a nasty surprise for control, especially mono blue. 3 Scroll racks is just good. I have ran three forever, and less is just not fun. more than 3 crypt makes me cringe, as they always seem to find eachother. Humility is a bomb, and I always want one. The most suspect card is planar birth. I explained it in an above post, and it really can be a good card. Call it a pet card, a security blanket, whatever you like, it has been very good to me. The sideboard is very standard. I would be happy to field any questions about any of the versions of the deck, as I have played all of them.

[kl0wn]

Quote (Raven @ Oct. 28 2002,04:18)Sorry Kl0wn, I didn't mean to make you post your personalized decklist. Belive me, I know what it's like to come up with a somewhat original idea only to have a bunch of scrubs copy it.

Its okay, I'm really not worried about anyone plagiarizing my deck since everyone tells me its complete shit (aside from the people who have to play against it). I'd actually take it as a compliment if someone attempted to plagiarize my deck, although I'd make sure to rip into them for it as well.

For a while I was using Mesa Chickens and Mountain Goats for pegasus tokens, but it got too cumbersome so I just use my upside-down sideboard cards. I do plan on using gummy bears when I go to the Type 1 Chamionships at Origins however. There's nothing like mutilating gummy bears for everyone to see.

Quote Kl0wn, I'm sure there's a reason for the plateau in the SB, but it seems kind of random.

It does, doesn't it? Here's the logic: Against Academy (and other combo to a lesser extent) you're bringing in 2 more Blood Moons along with the 2 Abolishes and 3 Crypts.

Against combo, you can rarely Tax early on since the early game is all about you setting up defenses like Aura of Silence and untapped lands to Chant before and after Draw-7s. You also need a Blood Moon out early. which requires more red sources in the deck than you have pre-board (which is only 4). Therefore, the Plateau is there as an extra red source that can also produce white and be pitched to Abolish in a pinch.

 Planar Birth:

I never really liked the card as it just helps you win more and doesn't really help you out against anything that you might have trouble with.

The purpose of the deck is to become invincible and Planar Birth doesn't contribute much to that goal. The only way it does is by bringing back more lands to sac to z0rb or let you go into turbo-Mesa mode. Turbo-Mesa isn't necesarry because you'll win just as easily if you can make only 2 or 3 tokens per turn. This is far outweighed by the weakness of walking into random graveyard hate as you try to set up a birth.

Basically, Planar Birth is just overkill.

Quote And this is irrelivant, but what would you say is the going price for Beta StP's, Beta Wrath of God's, and Beta Balance? I'm sure alot of you run an all black border version of the deck, and maybe you even got some for trade.

I like running my deck as ghetto as possible aside from my BB Pookies. I just can't stant WB Pookies, they make me cringe. Every old card in my deck that was printed in Revised is from Revised aside from a 6th Wrath and a couple of 4th StoPs. All my basics are from Revised too. Oh yeah...its ghetto.\n\n

[j_orlove]

Quote I like running my deck as ghetto as possible aside from my BB Pookies. I just can't stant WB Pookies, they make me cringe. Every old card in my deck that was printed in Revised is from Revised aside from a 6th Wrath and a couple of 4th StoPs. All my basics are from Revised too. Oh yeah...its ghetto.

Actually, that seems like a great idea. I mean, how much attention is the average opponent going to pay to the game if your first land drop is a revised plains? I know I would start thinking "scrub" and probably make some kind of play mistake.

Oh, and I have a WB mesa if you want to make the deck more ghetto