Hardcore cracking down of posting

[Azhrei]

@ bebe: We disagreed? When? I don't remember.

No really, I don't. I loved that 16 blast deck you had and was excited every time I saw posts about it.

[bebe]

Not really. I just didn't want you to get too pumped up  

Thank you for the kingd remarks. We need you posting here more. I love the deck too but someone has already usurped it here as their own. Now, that is a pet peeve of mine. People changing deck names. It's called
"I stole my freind's sideboard" and Nevyn named it after helping me tweak it up. I should be careful though as i've been accused of taking other's ideas too and sometimes more than one person can have the same idea.  

However, I don' t think that is an issue for the moderators.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Without (hopefully) dragging this into a philosophical debate, yes, Azhrei, you're right that there are facts in magic.  However, there are also opinions; its a matter of not having perfect information (for the economists out there).

There are some choices (FoF vs.tome) which become obvious with a limited amount of testing.  However, more subtle choices (brainstorm vs. impulse) require extensive testing of the nature that cividel suggested.

Since none of us have infinite time and resources, vintage strategy will remain a hybrid of objectivity and subjectivity.  As previously stated, we should argue fiercy and then agree to disagree.

I for one would like to see strategy discussion move towards more empirical (i.e. heavy testing) nature.
On the other hand, one of my favorite parts of vintage (and this was re-confirmed at yesterday's tournament) is how people derive much more pleasure out of playing the game, than by being right and fighting over rule wordings.

It is difficult sometimes to balance a rigorous, argumentative environment with a friendly (albeit competitive) one.  I think this site does pretty well.  Also, keep up the good work Zherbus.

[Radjammin]

Quote (Zherbus @ Dec. 04 2002,17:46)2) Post professionally. Writing in short hand with a clear disregard for any sort of grammar will get you a warning.

how bout a friggen spell checker...
Sick of hearing all the shit about not being able to spell.  I can't spell, I never could spell, and I never will be able to spell.  This will never change.  I went into computers becuase noone cares how bad my handwriting is and that I couldn't spell, that why they have spell checker.

For now I will continue to copy paste from word to verify spelling but sometimes I forget.

[spin13]

Meh, spelling is for the weak.

[Freddie]

Mispelling is for all of mankind... I feel that it unites us all!

I constantly mispell...

Not so much so that it is impossible to read my point (at least I hope so anyways!   )

Try your hardest... just do your best.

-Freddie

[Azhrei]

Regarding spelling and grammer: if you cannot communicate your ideas effectively and intelligently, please understand that the less able you are to do so the more likely someone else is to dismiss you as an incompetent.

Typographical errors are one thing, but leaving the verb out of a sentence or not including a subject is quite another.

I've seen some native English speakers here who have less of a command of the language than people who have learned it as a second language.

THAT, my friends, is disgraceful.

[Zherbus]

I've said it before:

If you cannot take the time to make your thoughts readable, then noone wants to take the time to translate it. It's a basic common courtesy to communicate clearly.

This isn't the forums of other unnamed sites, this is a site where we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. If it is harder for you to hold yourself to that standard, then do not post.

[bebe]

Some of us have a problem with typographical errors. I have a functional disorder that will often cause me to add an extra letter. I apologize if this causes some consternation but even after reading my posts I often miss the errors.

I do try to write a clear if not always precise post but after reading this I'm a little hestitant now about contributing on the Extreme Mill. When I wrote the primer (coming soon), I sent a copy to both Marc and Steve and I often will send out a post first just to see if it's okay.

I am not an English major. I'm a math major. I can follow logical analyses better than well written assumptions and hypotheses that don't stand up to critique.

I do agree that we must as individuals be responsible for monitoring our own posts. I just hope that a leeway may be given at times when clearly an effort has been made.

You will notice that this post has been edited as many of mine are. This is a direct consequence of not immediately recognizing my mistakes.\n\n

[Azhrei]

Bebe, there is a big difference between your thoughtful, intelligent posts and "speling sux y cant i spel how i wnt?"

A big, big difference.

[Ezechiel]

It is my first and probably my last post in the EVF. Not because I don't want to participate to the discussion, but because I don't have the expertise level to participate in 99% of the EVF topics.

However, I want to add my 2 cents regarding "Cracking down policy", a subject I have more experience than Vintage.
To want a high quality debate is a very good and - honestly - reasonable goal. But I am not sure that restricting member rights to post is the best way, neither cracking down hard on them with nasty comments.
I sadly witnessed several mailing lists as well as forum collapsed and vanished because a few regulars were falling hard on any newbie posts. And then enjoy bouncing each other arguments and counter-arguments at an almost esoterice level (it was not related to MtG, but RPG). However, they were so arrogant and elitist that soon the list or the forum died because no "fresh" blood was coming. It was stalling and finally disappear. They had so high standard that basically nobody was deemed worth "their" list/forum.

I am no saying that this is what is happening here. Not at all. It is simply a warning of what could happen if the rules become too strict or the standard too high. A simple question. If posting in EVF was restricted to a few selected members how would it be possible to become one of this member ? This has to be taken in consideration. How can somebody become elligible if he is not allowed to proove himself ?
I can understand that for experts, some opinions posted are utter non-sense and becomes a nuisance. Now is it worth filtering and restricting the posting right ? I don't think it is worth the risk of stalling and discouraging a potential expert who once made a misjudgement, and was from them labelled as "hopeless shrimpbrain".

From what I read here (and I was also following the old "slightly more chaotic" BD), people are quite obedient and seems to self-discipline themselves. Now I cannot judge the amount of work moderators are doing so I don't know if they have to do a lot of filtering / deleting / banning. If they have to do a lot of this, then I am willing to change my mind regarding a stricter policy, but elsewhere, I think that a large amount of what is posted here (and in the other forums of this board) are of high quality.

Anyway, thanks to the moderators for the job they are doing.

Ezechiel

[Matt The Great]

It's not that the lower quality posts will be banned outright. Just because you skim the cream off the top doesn't mean you throw out the milk. Which is why we have TWO type one forums, the 'normal' one and this one.

[Fishhead]

Quote I sadly witnessed several mailing lists as well as forum collapsed and vanished because a few regulars were falling hard on any newbie posts.

This is too true.  If you've been on lists or boards for any length of time, you know that one of the great enemies of these things is "regulars" who grow arrogant and drive off new members with condesending posts.  And then grow bored because there is no one around anymore to congratulate them on how smart they are.  

(Sometimes I wonder if its like that star sequence chart; all stars are formed, progress up the chart and eventually flame out (some more spectacularly than others.)  Do mailing lists follow the same pattern?)

Anyway, for those who think I am talking about BD (which, admittedly, fit this pattern pretty well), I am actually thinking more of a list I belonged to devoted to a certain make of car.  When I joined, there was all sorts of useful info floating around.  By the time I left, the "regulars" were only interested in discussing the minutia of doing an esoteric engine swap that, frankly, only they were interested in pursuing.  That, and their BBQ plans, since they all lived in the same area.  If anybody asked about anything else, they'd reply "Thats in the archives.  Look it up yourself," then start grousing about how the list used to be better "back in the day."  

Sounds familiar?  Well, its the story of 100 dead 'boards, so it should.  

But, I do think TMD has been doing a pretty good job of keeping the discussion civil and ongoing, both in the regular forum and the extreme forum.  The idea of restricting access to the Extreme Forum does make me a little nervous though; I think that special privileges for "old-timers" is another step along that star sequence of death.