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Author Topic: Gay Fish Primer  (Read 16502 times)
pernicious dude
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« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2003, 09:54:20 am »

Quote
Quote pernicious dude: How do you like the razorfin hunters?  They are 1/1s with no evasion for 2 colored mana

No, no, no. They're a 1/1 for 2 with better evasion than Cloud Of Faeries.
Curiousity triggers off damage, not just combat damage.
They hit just as hard as the Faeries do, unless I have a Lord out,
in which case, of course, they get the Merfolk benefit!
Curious Hunter means I can draw cards at the end of your turn,
after I see if you've played anything I need to kill.
They give me many more options than the Faeries do.
They can shoot through Ensnaring Bridge, Propaganda, big flying guys untapped by my Maze, whatever.

My Fire/Ice count has gone up and down, depending on the meta.

Disk backs up Force against problem enchantments and artifacts.
Definitely Disk against Ankh Sligh, side out the Rods.
Deed's the kind of thing you play around, though.
Tickle them until it pops.
I had high hopes for Interdict, ran it main one tourney, and it did nothing.
I may try it again.
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bebe
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« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2003, 10:01:58 am »

dude - your build seems to be where fish will logically go. It handles the worst match ups well. Fire/Ice can tap a Tog. It's golden against Sligh. I really like them. Not sure you need three Psionic Blasts with four of them main
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BlurredWeasel
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« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2003, 12:44:48 pm »

pernicious dude: misread curiosity, thought it was combat damage.  I'll grant you that the hunters are better.

The only other problem I have with your deck then is the inordinate amount of burn (4x fire/ice and 3x psi blast)  would cutting the 3 psi blasts for some combination of standstills and mazes be good?  The mazes at least right now are awesome against so many decks, they stop huge togs, dryads, juggys and 'noughts.

The ice does stop many creatures for 1 turn, but it seems like a very temporary solution (well...it is).  Which one has turned out to be better?  The fire/ice or the psi blast?  Do the 2 extra damage matter very often (will take down a su-chi or karn)?  And is that 2 extra damage worth it over the splitting ability of the fire ("I'll burn away both your pups, take 2")

I figure that the choice between fire/ice and psi blast becomes just that, depending on what you expect to see.  Against sligh, its definatly fire, against tnt you probably want the psi blast, and against tog, well, I don't know which would be better, maybe fire because its not misdirectable and also kills the early dryad pretty easy.

My new thoughts,
Chris
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pernicious dude
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« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2003, 04:18:26 pm »

Hunters aren't all around better, they just have better evasion.
That R in the cost can be a bitch, especially when you need them early.
Faeries have colorless in the cost, untap your land, and are totally sweet with Standstill.
Standstill just hasn't worked all that well for me.

I bless my Psi Blasts every time the guy across from me goes Workshop/ Mox/ Su-Chi.

I don't think I'd try to Fire a Dryad unless they had an empty hand.

I'm probably swapping a maindeck Fire/Ice for a sideboarded Maze of Ith this weekend.
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Dante
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« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2003, 04:35:04 pm »

Quote from: pernicious dude+Mar. 12 2003,15:18
Quote (pernicious dude @ Mar. 12 2003,15:18)I don't think I'd try to Fire a Dryad unless they had an empty hand.
I disagree - if they are tapped out to cast a Dryad (either 1st turn land/mox or 2nd turn two land), they'll need to cast two pitch spells (FoW, MisD, Gush) in response to the Fire to have the Dryad not die due to growing and if they have Fow/MisD only for the fire, well you have Fow and MisD as well.  If you have 3-4 Maindeck Fire/Ice, you've got a shot to see them early.  If I had Fow/MisD backup and they tapped out to play early dryad (especially 1st turn mox,land so they couldn't gush), I'd go for it.

Dante
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pernicious dude
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« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2003, 08:15:01 pm »

Yah, Force backup in my hand changes the story.

I'm an aggro player at heart.
I don't really think about the counters.
Hence the 7 burn spells and 4 pingers in my deck.

The Rootwater Thieves aren't really control.
More like a retaliatory first strike.
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pernicious dude
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« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2003, 01:23:28 pm »

Hadley yesterday, I took second playing the above decklist.
I lost to Gro via mana screw and then beat Sligh, something else, Squirrelcraft, Stompy, ID into top 8 against Deed Black.
Top 8 I beat Eon Blue Apocalypse (3 color aggro that beats Tog), Deed Black and lost in the finals to Samite Healer's Keeper.
I could deal with what I'm guessing was 5 Strips, 4 Swords, 2 Edicts, a Vindicate and a Disenchant.
I couldn't deal with Morphling.

I sided out Maze and 2 Psi Blasts for the third Null Rod and both Extracts.
Games 2 and 3 I first turn Extracted The Abyss.
Was that the right play?
I don't know.
My thinking was that The Abyss comes out a turn before Morphling and eats a creature each turn.
Morphling only eats one when I want it to.

So what do we do about Morphling?
Null Rod won me the only game he lost all day, so I can't use Disk or Keg.

BTW, Tradewind Rider was fabulous, and Suq'ata Firewalkers are way better than Sea Sprites.
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TheMadScotsman
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« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2003, 08:56:22 pm »

Hi, i was just wondering if there is anything special for SB against mono-black and mono-red in paticular.  I play something very close to OneFishTwoFish.  Any help is...Helpful...






The Mad Scotsman Strikes Again!!
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2003, 09:01:50 am »

Monoblack? Make sure you have 4 MisD maindeck and SB. Their Hymn, Sinkhole, Diabolic Edict, Smother, Mind Twist are quite powerful if directed at themselves.

Against red you donīt need anything special, just a healthy mix of Blue Elemental Blast (which you also need against Blood Moon), Sea Sprites and Suq-ata Firewalkers (I hear ppl prefer the Firewalkers, I have insufficient experience with the deck to have a strong opinion about them)
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ScaldMonger
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« Reply #69 on: July 05, 2003, 02:05:05 pm »

Now that GAT is more or less dead, any idea of where the deck is going to evolve to now? I always saw the addition of red to Fish to be used against GAT. REB, Fire/Ice, Rootwater Hunter-all good against prerestriction Meta, but the only one that I still like afterward is the Rootwater.

What you guys think?
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Gabethebabe
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« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2003, 01:18:33 am »

For the moment I leave my Fish deck at home. The current top decks like Workshop decks (Prison or TNT) and Rector Trix are quite bad match-ups for Fish.
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ScaldMonger
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« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2003, 10:18:23 am »

I have played against Rector-Trix and won, but never against Stax. The Stax matchup should be in the Fish player's favor though. With MD Null Rod, Hurkyl's Recall + Energy Flux SB, you have all the tools to beat Stax. Rector-Trix fell to the almighty Extract + Rootwater Theif combo....turns out they can't win if you get to remove 3 cards from their deck.
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bebe
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« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2003, 10:27:01 am »

Fish is stronger than ever. And yes, Extract rocks in the side now due to the emergence of Rector/Trix - it killed me the last tournament I played.
Energy Flux is getting better and better as a sideboard option. I agree.
Mono blue is very good but you might want a red splash for ReBs. It also allows fo0r great5 artifact hate in lieu of Energy Flux. The deck that beat my Trix wqas red splash and it made it to the finals.
One of these days I will get together with Marc on e-mail again and discuss what the current sideboard should be.
Fish is a deck that top players tend to ignore and that really works in its favor.
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ScaldMonger
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« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2003, 10:56:33 am »

The Red splash to me always consisted of more counterspells (REB), and artifact hate. The Hunter was in there too, but not much more impressive or game breaking than any other creature in it's slot really. ( Although it does help against random aggro)

With the new inclusion of energy flux, I really don't see a need for Red anymore.
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Phantom Tape Worm
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« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2003, 01:28:49 am »

I'll be attending gen con at the end of this month and i'll be rolling with fish for at least one of the tourney's.  I'll be using the mono-blue build with very little change from the original at the beginning of this primer, possibly a merchant scroll for a psi blast, but that's really the only change.

Fish is one of the few budget decks that i feel confident enough to play even in the most degenerate of metagames (as i suspect gencon will be).  I say this because it has the tools to beat combo, particularly null rod + force of will and to a lesser degree rootwater thief, which i suspect is going to be the next big trend in the metagame.

I'm going to start a thread in the regular vintage forum on gay fish so as not to clutter the primer with my random musings on sideboard options/maindeck changes (eg. the possible inclusion of stifle).
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