Gay Fish Primer

[Phantom Tape Worm]

@Monotone: Tidal warrior is cute, but lacks evasion making him a lousy curiosity target.  And while they can perform cute stack tricks with man lands, goblin welders they ain't.  Still, it's not a bad thought.  Try them out in a tourney and report the results.


@Xanthos:  Currently my sideboard looks something like this:

3 maze of ith
2 wasteland
2 psionic blast
2 blue elemental blast
2 sea sprite
1 legacy's allure
2 boomerang
1 annul

This is for a high powered metagame where you can expect to see TnT, keeper, mask, gro, parfait, sligh, zoo, sui, and random combo.

Vs TnT
+2 psi blast
+3 maze of ith
+1 legacy's allure
+1 annul
+2 wasteland

-1 coastal piracy
-3 misdirection
-1 curiosity
-1 standstill
-1 rootwater theif
-1 manta riders
-1 lord of atlantis

It's a lot of boarding, but it's necessary.



vs keeper
+2 wasteland

-1 cloud of faeries
-1 island (only do this if you also have huge elephantitus-sized testicles)

You're already strong vs keeper, a couple of extra wastes is always nice though.



vs mask
+3 maze of ith

-1 coastal piracy
-1 psi blast (if you see negators, keep this in)
-1 cloud of faeries

Just ride your null rods to victory.



vs gro
+3 maze of ith
+2 boomerang

-3 null rod
-1 psi blast
-1 cloud of faeries
 
I've seen many different gro builds and maze stops most of them.  Gro varients that pack back to basics or do oath conversions require a different boarding strategy, eg. don't board maze of ith vs emerald alice.


vs parfait
+1 annul
+2 boomerang

-3 misdirection

Parfait can be a nightmare, or it can be a walk in the park, it just depends how fast/if they can get their engine set up.  Once you get rolling counter sacred mesa and story circle only, ignore all other enchantments.



vs sligh
+2 Blue Elemental Blast
+2 Sea Sprite

-3 curiosity
-1 psi blast

Rely on standstill, piracy and ancestral for card advantage.  Curiosity is only going to get you smoked.



vs zoo
zoo can mean any number of different things usually containing kird ape and a shakey mana base.  Depending on how much burn it contains you may or may not want your anti red cards.
+2 Blue blast
+2 Sea Sprite
+2 wasteland
+1 maze of ith (maybe)

-1 psi blast
-3 curiosity
-1 cloud of fearies
-1 manta riders
-1 coastal piracy

It just depends.  Zoo encompasses all kinds of multi colored decks.  You may end up siding out null rods, it just depends.



vs sui
+2 psi blast
+3 maze of ith
+2 boomerang
+1 legacy's allure

-3 misdirection (a good sui player will board out his hymns and sinks against you)
-1 coastal piracy
-3 null rod
-1 curiosity

Survive to the late game and you should be fine.




This is an overview of what to do against some of the various archetypes you might expect to face in a high powered metagame, I'll give more details later...it's sleepy time for now.

[rozetta]

Quote vs gro
+3 maze of ith
+2 boomerang

-3 null rod
-1 psi blast
-1 cloud of faeries

I've seen many different gro builds and maze stops most of them.  Gro varients that pack back to basics or do oath conversions require a different boarding strategy, eg. don't board maze of ith vs emerald alice.

What to board in that case? If they side oath conversion _and_ btb, I suppose that's trouble...

On a side note, I recently took an aggro-metagamed version of your t 1.5 build to a 1.5 tournament tourney here and unfortunately played quite badly and anticipated the meta all wrong. I ended up 1-3-1. The one win was against suicide oath (with cognivore), losses were against U/G madness, dragon, and i don't remember the third, but it wasn't aggro, draw was with parfait cos we ran out of time for the 3rd match. We played it out off the record and he won, so it would have been 1-4

I admit I haven't learned this deck well enough yet (it's obviously difficult to play) and I felt quite helpless most of the time I was getting my ass kicked. Plus my sideboard looked nothing like this - it had kegs, allures, bebs, equilibrium and some other things less suited towards beating control and combo.

[pernicious dude]

I've been getting wrecked by Sam's Ankh Sligh.
5 strips, 4 Ankhs, Vice, 3 Cursed Scroll, 4 un-misDable Seals, 4 Grim Lavamancer, ouch, ouch, ouch.

I've been siding in my 3rd Null Rod against his Scrolls,
but it's finally occurred to me that he has way more permanents on the board than old school Sligh,
and I should probably go for the Disks instead.

I'm puzzled by your only running two Sea Sprites and siding out Curiousity.
Used to be that a Curious Sea Sprite was key against Sligh.

Yah, Oath is a problem.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

The sideboard is of course not set in stone, adjust it to your metagame.  If you're having problems with ankh sligh, run ivory towers or nevy's disks in your board.  If you're having trouble with oath/back to basics gro, again disks help.

Actually, in my 1.5 version i rely heavily on the 3 nevy's disks in the board.  I'd love to have them in type 1, but their gross lack of synergy with null rod means one or the other but not both and null rod has won me too many games to cut.  However, if your environment is such that disk would actually be stronger than null rod, by all means make the switch.


@ pernicious: ankh sligh is looking more and more like pox with all those artifact damage sources, soon it'll be running chimeric idols  maybe try some more obscure cards to combat this, i mentioned ivory tower and disk already, but zorb, suqata firewalker, chill, bottle gnomes, rejuvination chamber, well of life (progressively more janky, i know) are all at least possibilities.  Also, since one fish two fish contains red, artifact destruction shouldn't be a problem for you.  Why not side in your viahshino heratics that are ordinarily reserved for tnt?  They can't be lavamancered or scrolled without some other damage source to get rid of them, sounds worthy of a try to me.

As far as the whole curiosity plan vs sligh...as i'm sure you noticed grim lavamancer makes it pretty difficult to keep anything that isn't pro red alive for any length of time.  I drop down to curiosity as a one of because chances are, i don't want to see it.  Only 2 pro red guys come in from the board, and that's just not enough to make a game plan that revolves around creature enchanting.  I don't take them out entirely because, hey, sometimes a curious sea sprite does go all the way, but i wouldn't count on it.

Oh, and you really found oath to be all that troublesome??  I've played vs oath in 1.5 (yes i know, different format) and once i knew it was in fact oath, i just opted to go the man land beatdown route.  Playing around oath should get easier when you start siding out creatures.  With the board i listed above, i'd probably do something like:
+2 wasteland
+2 boomerang
+2 psi blast
+1 legacy's allure (for spike weaver)
+1 annul

drop out some creatures, a couple of curiosities, and possibly null rods depending.  Cut manta rider first, the other creatures are potentially more useful.  An unanswered rootwater thief can win the game right there.  Your goal will be to keep B2B off the table, and win with manlands.

[Hanzalot]

Phantom Tape Worm - have you tried Suq'Ata Firewalker over Sea Sprite? I know bebe used it a while back and I myself like it a lot.

[pernicious dude]

In the final game against Grand Inquistor's Oath-converted Gro,
I Extracted his lone Morphling turn 1.
He went into recursion, replaying Strip Mine and Powder Keg every turn or two,
with several Force and a MisD permanently in hand.

I have beat other Oath decks by playing no creatures,
but a really knowledgable Oath player has a bunch of less-used tricks up his sleeve.

Suq'Ata Firewalker could rule.
Razorfin Hunters have been very good, but they rarely come live against Mountains.

[bebe]

When Sligh was running amok i addded the Firewalkers to my side. They are really quite effective in this matchup and rule Sligh.
It is important to note that Phantom and I have constantly changed our sideboards and main deck to reflect the meta. In fact main deck differences are quite normal from environment to environment and there is no definative version.
Take TnT, my current deck. I play a build that is not the accepted norm. Yet i went 4-0 with it non-the-less. TnT is very flexible. Fish has some of the same flexibility. Psi blasts were main decked when Sui was rampant. Mazes serve better now as Sui has dropped in popularity - someone please come up with a solid build for today's metagame.

[pernicious dude]

Psi Blast is still good if you have TnT in your meta.
Su-Chi goes away, they take 4, and I take two.
Do they dare bring him back?

[bebe]

Gilded Drakes are better against TnT, I think. Mazes are all-purpose and in some ways better. But yes, Psi Blasts are a great opytion in all blue Fish.
I don't think that Phantom or I ever intended a that a definative list should be played everywhere. Some decks are less flexible then others and this is desirable. With Fish it just isn't. As many as eight to ten cards can be changed to suit your meta.

[TheMadScotsman]

@pernicious dude:
Could you post or direct me to a list for One fish, Two fish?
I'm curious about what would change.





-The Mad Scotsman Strikes Again!  

[ScaldMonger]

I noticed that this thread has slowed down a bit, so I'll post my current findings with my version of T1 fish. This deck is based on playing at NG-NY tournaments so it might be a little bit more geared to that kind of meta.

The Fish/gay

4 Cloud of fearies
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Manta Riders *
4 Rootwater Thief

Countermagic/Shutdown

4 FOW
3 Mis-d
2 Null Rod **

Heart of The Deck

4 Standstill
4 Curiosity
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timewalk

Lands/Artifact mana

1 LOA
2 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
4 Fearie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
8 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire

Personal Choice Cards

1 Black Vise
3 Unstable Mutation

Sideboard

4 Disrupts
3 Nev Disks
2 Waterfront Bouncers
1 Mis-d
2 Wasteland
2 Legacy Allure
1 Extract

*=could only find 3 manta riders
**=Could only find 2 Null Rods, fortunately (sp?) though they never helped....not once

Just for a little bit of card choice explanation,
3 Unstable Mutations- With the amount of LAS running amok, the deck needed a little power boost in the beginning. Helped everytime I drew it.
1 Black Vise- NG is notorious for having more control decks than anything else, so dropping a first turn Vise is key, not to mention does combo with standstill

     Ok this deck did win in the last Sunday NG 14 people T1 tourny, losing only 1 game to Groatog and 1 game to an oldschool Trix deck which was absolutely magnificant.

     I didn't really keep track of what happened in the games but they went as such...

Me against Monoblack: Standstill + fish with unstable mutations and flying conclaves = Win

Me against Oath: Manlands took it all the way

Me against Combo:  A lucky win, should have lost. Combo is just still too fast if running black for duress and cabal therapy.

Me against Groatog:  A solid match. First game the Standstill + aggresive fish came through.  Second Match, big dryad means I die. Third match the sideboard shined and disrupts were amazing.

I had built the deck the night before, so most likely something in the deck could have been better. After the tourny, I took a look at the deck and realized that it was pretty solid the way it was, and the only change was in the sideboard which now looks like

3 Nev Disks
2 Waterfront Bouncers
3 Ivory Tower
1 Mis-d
2 Wasteland
4 Disrupts

The disrupts were just too amazing, so I had to put in the 4th.
The Ivory Towers are mostly to combat Illusions, and anything quicker than I.

This deck is certainly a contender, and I hope that it will see more tourny play. Any comments or suggestions are welcomed. And I hope that the little mini-report in here won't be a problem, as I think it helps to show the strengths of the deck a little better.

[bebe]

Your list confirms what I've been saying all along. Fish adapts to the meta. I've always played a Disrupt and an Annul main deck. I would play without Psi Blasts if i could but there are still Sui players here so I've not played Null Rods main for awhile ( you do need to side them in for kegs).  
If Gro and TnT become dominant, I will main deck Bouncers and side in Mazes. When Phantom was preparing the primer we discussed a lot of builds and my newest build does vary from his.
I wrote the first primer on fish quite a long time ago ( called the best aggro-control deck that no ones plays), and since then the meta has evolved more than the deck. Obviously, this means that changes based on your environment are necessary.  
As to your deck, i think your sidenboard still needs work. Allures are not as good as they once were as TnT will kill you before they are effective and disks also can be a bit slow.
I tried Extracts too, BTW. They are not good enough to beat any redundant combo deck.
Ivory Towers also seem a bit iffy for such an aggressive deck and there are better solutions for Sligh and pure aggro.
Having said all that, congratulations on a well-deserved win.

[ScaldMonger]

Thanks, I agree with everything you said. The towers are iffy, but I think they are worth a try. The disks weren't actually that difficult to play. I also run a lotus which helps. In all the games, the lotus either made my first turn godlike, or if drawn in later part of games, just allowed me to play more conservative, using it's mana instead of tapping out when I might not want to pitch a card to a FOW or Mis-d.
      On the topic of kegs.....They aren't that big of a deal in reality. The match against oath actually had a 2nd turn keg drop. My first drop was sapphire, factory-  Cloud of faeries. So he had set the keg for 2. The turn before he would have blown (by now the faerie had an unstable on it so it was a 4/4 i think) I also dropped a manta rider with a curiosity on it. This was the first match so I had no idea he was running oath. Either way, what do you do.....leave a huge CoF on the table or blow a 1/1 rider with finkle written on it. Either was he was screwed. The keg just made my job that much more difficult, which still wasn't very bad.
      The lone extract was a last second panic move. I had to register my decklist and I was running very late. I saw it and said, "It could be worse". The extract never got used so it just got lost in the sideboard for my newer version.

[Magimaster]

hi!

I was musing over the thread, and I think I'm going to try and build this deck. It seems fun, yet fits nicely with my college budget, all the while remaining competitive.

That being said, here's a list I conjured up. I don't have a single power card () so I just made some necessary adustments. At first glance, this deck looks like it can survive unpowered fairly well.

GayFish

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Manta Riders
4 Rootwater Thief

4 FOW
3 Mis-d

4 Standstill
4 Curiosity
4 Unstable Mutation/Sigil of Sleep <-- Tech!

2 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
4 Fearie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
10 Island

1 Cunning Wish
1 Trade Routes
1 Black Vise

1 OPEN

SB://
1 Misdirection
1 Teferi’s Response (iffy)
1 Psionic Blast
1 Submerge (might put more)
4 Annul
4 Maze of Ith
3 OPEN

With the high volume of man-lands, there's one card that I am just itching to try out. Trade Routes is absolutely beastly in a deck running man-lands. It's not so much the cycling land part, but more of the neat tricks you can pull with it. Another thing is the Sigil of Sleep/Unstable Mutation. I can't decide between the two. Sigil seems to fair better against heavy aggro decks. Unstable Mutation gets style points though.

Also, since I lack power, I stuck in a Cunning Wish. I had a Merchant Scroll in there, but I decided it wasn't worth it, so now that spot is open. I'm thinking of sticking in another Cunning...because it can fetch so much stuff from the SB.

SB is jankified.

So whaddya think? Have I bastardized the deck too much?

[Grollub]

Magimaster, I don't think you'll have enough mana open to use Trade Routes, one card I think you're missing is Coastal Piracy, in my unpowered version this has proven to be so good I've went up to two.

Also I don't think Black Vise really is worth it, I'd rather go for another Wasteland - powers your manlands and disrupts you opponent, and much more important is so very very very good against the togs.

Cunning Wish, hmm I don't know.  Just seems, eeeh, I dunno. Will have to test it first.

Had planned to use my unpowered Fish for Danish Championship but now I've been sick and not allowed to move out of my house for weeks, bah.  
FISH WOULD HAVE WON!

[Mordecai]

One problem I've noticed while running a Fish-type deck is that you basically *can't* win against Sligh if their Cursed Scroll hits the table.  It eats up all of your creatures and is burn to kill you that you can't counter.  This is why I recently made the addition of Null Rods, which I know a lot of other people on these boards run as well.  That would be my suggestion to you, Magimaster, and to anyone else thinking of running this deck (especially unpowered, since it won't stop your own Mox from working).

[bebe]

queer as merfolk

creatures
        4 Rootwater Thief
        4 Manta Riders
        4 Lord of Atlantis
        4 Cloud of Faeries
spells
        4 Force of Will
        3 Misdirection
        2 Psi Blast
        Annul
        Disrupt
                
        4 Curiosity
        3 Null Rod
        2 Coastal Piracy
        Time Walk
        Ancestral Recall
        
mana
       LoA
       Mox Sapphire
       Strip Mine
       2 Waste land
       4 Faerie Conclave
       4 Mishra's Factory
       9 Island
 

Now for our rotating sideboard:


sb:
4 Gilded Drake
3 Sea Sprite
3 Maze of Ith
2 Wasteland
2 Waterfront Bouncer
Upheaval

This is the deck I've been playing lately ... note that I do not play it as often as I used to. I'm not going to debate the absence of Standstills. I've never needed them in the deck and am very happy with the Coastals and Curiosities.
Even using a Mox, Null Rods were necessary and never hurt me. However, the game is shifting again. I do not see as  many Kegs as I used to and I wonder if the spot might be better used. I'm thinking of moving a Maze and two Bouncers main and putting them in the side.

[ScaldMonger]

Pretty much unpowered fish should run the Coastal Piracy and 3-4 null rods. Otherwise I don't think the Coastal Piracy has a solid place in the deck....thats just IMO. Null Rods work wonders against sligh, this is true. While I was at NG, I played 2 or so games against LAS, which runs all the burn + 3 cursed scrolls. Fish not only survived, but came out winning. The deck is very resilient. As for a more permanent solution to Cursed Scroll (other than just workin around it), maybe the newly unrestriced Hurkyl's Recall would be nice, or possibly a replacement of SB disrupts for SB annuls as some of the decklists have already done. All in all, I don't consider Cursed Scroll such a big problem, although it might be and I just haven't tested against it enough.
      Now taking out the Standstills is a no no. I can't count how many cards I drew extra during that tourny becuase of them. It's the whole point of the deck. Without running standstills, there is no point in running manlands. While an active Coastal Piracy is fine, it doesn't present any immediate threat. On the other hand, having a Standstill on the table is devestating. FYI, if a Standstill is out and a spell is played, from what the judge ruled for me, you get to draw 3 then decide if you want to react to the spell (counter it, mis-d it). This is all working to your advantage. Since the Standstills didn't work for you, I have to assume you were playing them at the wrong times, or the decks you were playing against didn't need to play spells. Either way, I'd suggest trying them again.
     Before I start to feel like im lecturing about a deck that I myself am learning to play, let me leave off there.

::EDIT::

Just got back from work and a friend of mine suggested that if you change the deck by removing standstills, you might as well play back to basics and take out the manlands and play more islands. At that point, put in some morphlings and you got yourself a nice new deck.  

[Phantom Tape Worm]

Quote I don't think that Phantom or I ever intended a that a definative list should be played everywhere. Some decks are less flexible then others and this is desirable. With Fish it just isn't. As many as eight to ten cards can be changed to suit your meta.

@Bebe: Absolutely, actually i had a discussion with Xanthos recently where i said essentially the same thing.

Quote The metagame will dictate what spells you play and in what amounts. Think of it like this, you have the core of the deck which is not really subject to change, that is...

The creatures, which consist of:
4 lord of atlantis
4 manta riders
4 rootwater thief
4 cloud of faeries

The four forces of will, which are simply a must
4 force of will
x xxxxxx
x xxxxxx
x xxxxxx

The drawing power
4 curiosity
4 standstill
x xxxxxx

The man lands (and strip mine)
4 faerie conclave
4 mishra's factory
1 strip mine
x xxxxxx
x islands  (all in all should total about 22 lands)

Everything listed as "x" is wiggle room.  In those slots you can put any number of different things, here are some options...

The obvious and what you currently have:
maze of ith
legacy's allure
misdirection
coastal piracy
wasteland

other options (stuff that can be either sideboard or main):
capsize
boomerang
disrupt
annull
psionic blast
nevy's disk
phyrexian furnace
null rod
waterfront bouncer
black vise
ivory tower
zuran orb
power (if you have it)
merchant scroll


So if you have 28 spells that are just a given, and 22 (my magic number) lands, that leaves you 10 cards, or 1/6th of the deck, to put toward adapting to the metagame.  The amounts of each card you put in these 10 flexible slots will just depend.  Once you get a feel for the metagame, you'll know instinctively what to do.  Certain cards like legacy's allure and maze of ith are strong vs aggro, whereas cards like misd or null rod are strong against fully powered control.  Phyrexian furnace is going to have a place in my maindeck for 1.5, i'm cutting another misd for it.  Survival varients are growing in popularity where i play so it only makes sense to be prepared.  Be flexible.  And have a strong and even more flexible sideboard.

@Scaldmonger: Congrat's on your victory in NG!  I was hoping to do the honors of introducing the deck into the metagame myself (and cutting a swath through the heavy control meta NG is known for), but i still have yet to make the trek up from Virginia.  I'm just glad to see that fish is catching on.

I noticed the 3 unstables in the main, for a total of 7 creature enchantments.  I have yet to go above 4 creature enchantments main largely because of decks like sligh that pack lots of creature removal.  Interesting.  It is conventional wisdom that an abundance of creature enchantments is the fast track to the loser's bracket, but it seems that perhaps conventional wisdom is wrong, as your victory proves otherwise...can't argue with results.

Does coastal piracy have a place on the decklist??  I think so.  Of course i also think that most of the cards on the list i presented to Xanthos in my little quote from above have a place (perhaps i should add unstable mutation to that list).  Piracy is a bomb, and as a drawing engine i'd go so far as to say that it's on par with tax/rack.  Is it necessary?  no.  The deck can do without it.  The deck can also do without power, or any of the other cards that weren't part of the "core" (again, referring to my talk with Xanthos).  This deck, like every deck, is metagame dependant and different locations will require different builds if they are to succeed.  Three null rods makes great sense at NG NY or in Richmond Va (and god do they ever kick ass!), but in places where type 1 is really just old extended and current type 2 decks, nulls sort of suck.  It's all about the environment, i really can't harp on that enough.

Standstill is amazing and this is THE deck that breaks the card.  I would only take it out if i were playing against counter rebel.




@Magi master: cunning wish can fetch:
capsize
misd
psi blast
annul
disrupt
submerge

And while you might have these on your board anyway (even if you weren't running cunning wish), the complete and utter slowness of cunning wish in a deck that doesn't have much in the way of mana acceleration is probably bad.  Odds are you'll want to tap out during your turn as much as possible (casting critters and attacking with manlands), so you aren't likely going to fetch misd, annul, or disrupt in response to a spell.  You'd essentially be playing a 3-4cc conditional counterspell that required you to play extremely defensively; not good.  More often than not though, you'll want (and need) to use it as a removal spell, so you'll probably fetch psi blast or capsize.  But now you're looking at paying twice as much for one of two effects.  And the removal you needed better not be for an immediate threat because you're going to need to waste a turn fetching your answer before you can even think about casting it.  Cunning wish is great for slow mana heavy control decks that need a big tool box to deal with strange and obscure threats, but for a tempo based mana hungry creature deck cunning wish is a big poop with a stink.

Also, in regards to sigil...again, conventional wisdom.  Eh, give it a try in an aggro meta.  Who knows, it may be really good.

[Magimaster]

PTW: Thanks for the advice. I can see your point about Cunning being too reactive. I'm still gonna give it a shot, but what you said makes sense and I can predict in my head how this testing is gonna go.

Also gotta try the Piracy. I'm unsure how such a heavy enchantment fits in with the manabase of this deck. It truly does seem like a bomb card (especially with a Lord of Atlantis) but against Blue would you need help resolving it?

And one more thing, what does everyone think about Sigil of Sleep in place of Unstable Mutation? On paper it seems like the answer to this new Berserkat0g menace.

thanks for the replies.

PeAcE

[Petey4335]

Sigil of sleep seems a slow... but semi permanent way to avoid a berserkatog.  Curiosity is wonderful, but i fear having more pants and no creatures to wear them.

IMHO, maze of ith can do the job just fine at the moment.  Even if that doesn't work, waterfront bouncer can step in and attack sometimes if need be.

Also, if you are splashing red, there's always REB.


-pete

[ScaldMonger]

I haven't tested Sigil yet, but I did play with them back in the day when I played Grow in extended. It's not bad, but I think we can do better. Submerge, I think is the best choice for the slot/solution. It can pretty much reset any creature on the board, much like the sigil does, but it also denies your opponent a card draw. If thats not enough to stop BerserkAtog, maybe 2 maindeck Bouncers would be an idea, and place 2 more on SB. I actually have rebuilt the deck slightly and no longer play the Null Rods main deck. Instead, I put 2 disrupts in their spots. Maybe I'll try putting Waterfront Bouncer in instead. Like Petey said, it's not good to play with too many creature enchantments with not enough creatures to enchant. Although it seems to work fine for me, upping the count with 2 Bouncers helps 2 different aspects of the deck.

[AliBaba]

I started with 2 coastal piracies, when I started playing fish.  This number has gone to zero now.  They have been replaced with Psionic Blast and Cunning Wish.  In most cases, the piracy got cast only when I was already winning.  Yes, it was fun to draw more cards, but it usually served no useful purpose.  I have not regretted adding the psionic blast as it has proven its worth in different situations.  The verdict is not in on the wish yet.  I just made that change this weekend and further testing will determine whether it will stay or go.  It did however, allow the fetching of a hydroblast to kill a welder at one point in a TNT matchup.

I also run 3 disks in the side to swap with 3 null rods and, dispite the additional 2 casting cost over rods, have not had a problem casting them when needed.

AliBaba

[ScaldMonger]

I agree with Alibaba on the Piracy, like said before, it is a more win card. I don't really see a purpose in running a Psi blast for me, but if it works for you go for it. As for the Cunning Wish, I have always been against it's use outside of Keeper, Trix, Oath, Turboland, Groatog(maybe a few others). Fish just doesn't have the mana to run it. Also, I don't think there are enough cards to make it worth playing. I could be wrong of course. But unlike the other decks mentioned, whatever you fetch almost has to be under 2 mana in casting cost, otherwise it loses it's potency. Keeper can fetch a shattering pulse/allay/dismantling blow/capsize , and utilize cards like a full set of moxen, and mana drains to fuel it.

[Petey4335]

After bringing Fish to CrazyCon, I wish to note the following:

1)  Maze of ith:  I'm almost thinking of main decking 2 instead of one and upping the sideboard count to 2.  It saved me more than I thought it ever would.   It stopped phantom nishobas (among other reanimated things), nantuko shades, hypies, ball lightnings, lackies,  Tog, and even river boas.  meta seems more aggro than anything these days.

2) Disrupt:  I'm making this 4 in the sideboard or maybe a few main deck.  This helps stop a tog deck from "going off" in the first few rounds and cantrips even!

3) Coastal Piracy:  I'm really glad I didn't have any of these.  I  never wished I had one in play.

4) Psionic Blast:  I'm up in the air about this one.  It won me 1 game dealing 4 straight to the dome but there wasn't much i wanted to kill with it.  More of my creature killings were served via blocking.

5) Disk:  Overkill.  Either I'm just unlucky, or everytime i wanted to use it, my opponent had regenerating creatures.  If things are getting more aggro, i'm thinking of replacing this with legacy's allures ( I don't have any at this poing thats why I haven't used them).

to be continued.....

I'll post a decklist later, I should get back to work.

edit: decklist

creatures
       4 Rootwater Thief
       4 Manta Riders
       4 Lord of Atlantis
       4 Cloud of Faeries
spells
       4 Force of Will
       3 Misdirection
       2 Maze of Ith
       4 Standstill        
       4 Curiosity
       3 Null Rod
       Time Walk (if i owned one... +1 psi blast instead)
       Ancestral Recall
      
mana
      LoA  (if i owned one... I play +1 island instead)
      Mox Sapphire
      Strip Mine
      2 Wasteland
      4 Faerie Conclave
      4 Mishra's Factory
      9 Island

Sideboard  
      2 Maze of Ith
      3 Disrupt
      3 Blue Elemental Blast
      2 legacy's allure
      2 Psi blast
      2 phyrexian furnace
      1 wasteland

[ScaldMonger]

Petey, I love the list and your card choices. My only question which actually came up randomly in a game and was brought to my attention was the interaction of Null Rod + Mishra's Factory.  Can you block and pump with a Null Rod out? I don't think you can....making Disk much better.

::EDIT::

By card choices I mean the use of disrupt and legacys allure. I also found that to be superior to other cards. Sideboarding Waterfront bouncers and Sigil of Sleep resulted in me still losing to tog with Fish, so I'm gonna test some other choices.

[j_orlove]

Quote My only question which actually came up randomly in a game and was brought to my attention was the interaction of Null Rod + Mishra's Factory.  Can you block and pump with a Null Rod out?

With Rod out, an animated factory can't use any of its 3 abilities. Unanimated ones can still pump the animated one, though.

[ScaldMonger]

Ah so possibly the greatest trick in the deck isn't so spectacular. A self pumping Factory is key in taking out Phids and Jackal Pups. I think I'm going to try out maindeck Disks instead...although I'm not currently playing the deck. I'm leaving fish alone for awhile, until the Tog craze dies down. If anyone else is playing the deck, I'd recommend the Disks as they do help with the tog situation.

[pernicious dude]

Null Rod stops Powder Keg,  Cursed Scroll, Masticore and Triskellion,
all of which totally own the deck.
As a bonus, it shuts down jewelry and Masks.
It wins some games all by itself.

Gang block the Phid with a Lord and anything else,
including that Factory, or pump the Factory with another.

I run two Rods and a Disk main game one, one each on the side.
I've played a Disk behind a Rod.
Never hurts to have a backup plan.

Quote Could you post or direct me to a list for One fish, Two fish?
I'm curious about what would change.

This is what it looks like today.

Did you see JP's summary of his Tog matches with Fish?
We were allotted one line.

Quote Plaguebearer for the win

I think we're going to be wantin' a touch of red lovin'
Fire can't be misdirected if you hit two targets, and neither can Razorfin Hunter.

One Fish, Two Fish/ Red Fish, Blue Fish

Real Estate
5 Island
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Strip Mine
1 Maze Of Ith
1 Library of Alexandria

The Fish
4 Manta Riders
4 Rootwater Thief
4 Razorfin Hunter
4 Lord Of Atlantis

Cards For Me
4 Curiosity
1 Ancestral Recall proxy or Coastal Piracy or Standstill

I Vote No
4 Force Of Will
2 Misdirection

Bad Thing, Go Away
2 Null Rod
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
3 Psionic Blast
4 Fire/Ice

Game Two
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Viashino Heretic
1 Null Rod
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
2 Maze Of Ith
2 Extract
2 Suq'Ata Firewalker
1 Tradewind Rider (hasn't seen play yet)

[BlurredWeasel]

pernicious dude: How do you like the razorfin hunters?  They are 1/1s with no evasion for 2 colored mana (no factory mana here).  When playing the deck, I loved the lords, except when I had that curiosity in hand, then I always wanted that flying dude (fairies or theives).

Basically what I'm asking is whether the pinging ability is worth losing a flyer?  Especially now with the metagame shifting towards more and more creatures (togs and juggys) I would think that flying would be necessary.

I also noticed that your build runs 7 burn spells (4x Fire/Ice and 3x Psi Blast) and I was wondering if that is in response to your metagame or if you think that the fire/ices were better than other options (standstill).

On a more general basis, I agree with playing the null rods, as the negative synergy with factories is minimal compared with the advantages of shutting down so many things that completely hose the deck (keg, masticore, cursed scroll) as well as slowing down opposing moxen and shutting down some decks entirely (parfaits scroll rack, mask's umm... mask, and tnt's triskelion)

In response to the argument about a self pumping factory against sligh, you need to look at cost/benefit again to see if rods are needed.  That pup will be blocked and killed by any of your creatures (might take yours down too...but ahh well) while an active scroll on the other side of the table means doom for you and your team.  I believe that shutting down a scroll might end up losing you a factory in the short term, it will save your entire team in the long run, and make several of his cards dead.


Leaving with a question: Is there any good answer to enchantments with this deck other than countering it with a Force of Will?  My metagame has several top level decks, but also has a fair number of random things show up, and I feel that the deck needs an answer to pernicious deed.  Is the optimal answer just play around it?  Just to drop enough to stay aggro, and hold back creatures, or would something along the lines of interdict be called for.


My Thoughts,
Chris