Breaking Future Sight

[Dozer]

Whoops... leviat, you caught me there. I miscounted. Having played with 26 until I came to Worlds probably is part of that... So, forget about that. Sorry.

Thug: Yes, you will only use the Tog when you really need to. It is more an imminent threat anyways, and mostly it gets thrown in the way of a deadly Dreadnought or a Phage'd Shapeshifter. It is only a very effective way to gain time against all kinds of aggro, and being able to function as a win condition is just gravy.

Dozer

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Well, Dozer already posted my latest MD version of The Shining (though I do own the Walk and therefor play it).
As some of you said before, Sligh can really be a bitch. After playing Hulk for fun lately (I love Extended Tog, and well, Hulk is the most similar thing in T1), I realized how much Tog  itself screws Aggro. So instead of adding more removal, which would be dead against anything but aggro, I added the Tog. And I have to say I like it. It works quite well, from keeping Slighs Creatures down over being extra Meddling Mage protection to having your (nonred) opponents SB in creature removal after game one because they think you're playing Tog not Shining (like somebody said "When you get the combo running you can kill with just about everything*", so if it isn't to complicated I really like to end game 1 with Tog istead of Tendrils.

For the SB, this is what I was playing:

SB:  1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB:  1 Aura Fracture
SB:  2 Null Rod
SB:  1 Pyroblast
SB:  2 Duress
SB:  1 Mind Twist
SB:  1 Yawgmoth's Will
SB:  1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:  2 Deep Analysis
SB:  1 Balance
SB:  1 Primitive Justice
SB:  1 Reverent Silence

Vindicate is just unneccessary and Reverent Silence can remove multiple Pyrostatic Pillars (the power of which was shown on me during a few fun-matches on Friday or Saturday).
Null Rod is there for the single reason of Long.dec being played quite often and I knew at least the people from Minden would play it. And 1st turn Null Rod just wins against them. (I even won after Keeping Land, 3 Moxen, ZOrb, Ancestral, Null Rod, effectively mulliganing to 3, because of dropping 1st turn Null Rod against Benjamin Ribbeck)
Before adding the Rods I had 2 Pyroblast and 3 Deep Analysis SBed, to help the Control-matchup, especially Hulk. If you don't see much Long, play these (I'm not sure how good Null Rod is against Rector-based decks, as I didn't get to test the matchup lately).
The real problems for this deck are, IMO, the other top decks (Hulk, Stax, Long, Rector) and UrPhid (Blood Moon + Counters = BAD), but I manage to get 50% up to now (UrPhid is 40%, though, I think, but luckily it's not to popular). The two Null Rod slots should be looked at as Metagamehate-slots and be filled with either

Deep Analysis +  Pyroblast for Hulk/Control in general
Null Rod for Long
Sacred Ground for Stax
Null Rod or Coffin Purge for Rector. (to be tested)

For Intuition over the second Sight, I just feel Future Sight to be a lot stronger topdeck, especially after having so many people play with AKs themselves over here.
Besides, an early Future Sight is game, an early Intuition does only do much, if you a)have a goddraw or b)your opponent is not playing AKs. And as said, I see more and more decks playing AKs. Aside from that, 2nd turn Drain, 3rd turn Sight is just better than 2nd turn Drain, 3rd turn Intuition + AK.

Quote I actually can't remember the last time I fetched Balance with it.

I can and it wins games. But yes, it's not needed as often since you can go off with Tendrils.

The Vengeur Mask matchup:
I feel it to be quite even, I'm about 50/50, maybe a little better against Womprax's unpowered build and won 2:0 (well 1:0 but just because of a few missing turns, which made me play for the stall-win instead of trying to go off and loose because of bad luck) against a powered version in Dülmen. The matchup is even to favorable for The Shining in my experience.


*As a funny note, during one of the 8-person Sideevents I played (4 of them, I won 3 and got 2nd once), I won 2:1 against a player with Shining who used a RANCORED UP NETHER SPIRIT PLUS A CUNNING WISHED FOR HATRED as his kill condition. As said, anything works after Sight+Orb+Bond are in play.

Oh and if anyone wants to give me french Baguette ... (Null Rods) for my English ones, let me know. The name's just great

[Thug]

Quote For Intuition over the second Sight, I just feel Future Sight to be a lot stronger topdeck, especially after having so many people play with AKs themselves over here.
Besides, an early Future Sight is game, an early Intuition does only do much, if you a)have a goddraw or b)your opponent is not playing AKs. And as said, I see more and more decks playing AKs. Aside from that, 2nd turn Drain, 3rd turn Sight is just better than 2nd turn Drain, 3rd turn Intuition + AK.

It is a better topdeck, lategame. But in the early game I think Intuition clearly is the better card. More and more decks might be packing AK's, but that still leaves options. You can either go for Ak's very quick and outdraw and outcontrol them. Or you can just set up Will with Fastbond, Orb and Deep Analysis.

Quote The real problems for this deck are, IMO, the other top decks (Hulk, Stax, Long, Rector) and UrPhid (Blood Moon + Counters = BAD), but I manage to get 50% up to now (UrPhid is 40%, though, I think, but luckily it's not to popular). The two Null Rod slots should be looked at as Metagamehate-slots and be filled with either

Hulk: This is very even with my version, slighly in their favour before sideboarding and lsightly in yours after.

Stax: Stays a problem, I'm still trying different sideboard options but haven't found the perfect one.

Long: I don't have much experience against this deck. But Null Rod might sure be an answer if you face this a lot.

Trix: The Purges help much, but in a little while Trix will find an answer to it.

Urphid: The nightmare, but if you can keep Blood Moon of the table you still have a very decent fighting change, especially after sideboard.

Quote *As a funny note, during one of the 8-person Sideevents I played (4 of them, I won 3 and got 2nd once), I won 2:1 against a player with Shining who used a RANCORED UP NETHER SPIRIT PLUS A CUNNING WISHED FOR HATRED as his kill condition. As said, anything works after Sight+Orb+Bond are in play.

Spirit + Rancor, that's some heavy stax hate  

Quote (I even won after Keeping Land, 3 Moxen, ZOrb, Ancestral, Null Rod, effectively mulliganing to 3, because of dropping 1st turn Null Rod against Benjamin Ribbeck)

Why did you keep Orb in your deck?, it's not like you can't without it.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Quote It is a better topdeck, lategame. But in the early game I think Intuition clearly is the better card. More and more decks might be packing AK's, but that still leaves options. You can either go for Ak's very quick and outdraw and outcontrol them. Or you can just set up Will with Fastbond, Orb and Deep Analysis.

I'm not so sure. against decks that play AKs themselves, I'm often at a loss about what to Intuition for early on, when going into a Will-turn isn't really possible. And I don't have an DA MD, so Intuitioning for one works only post SB.

Quote Why did you keep Orb in your deck?, it's not like you can't without it.

Just regular combo-thinking. I need it quite often to make Will or Sight leathal enough. And I knew Benjamin was SBing Roar of the Wurms in, so I might get low on life before taking control. Probaly a suboptimal choice anyway.\n\n

[Radagast]

Spellweaver Helix
3
Artifact
Imprint - When Spellweaver Helix comes into play, you may remove two target sorcery cards in a single graveyard from the game. (The removed cards are imprinted on this artifact.)
Whenever a card is played, if it has the same name as one of the imprinted sorcery cards, you may copy the other and play the copy without paying its mana cost.

You could do some seriously bad shenanigans with that, Intuition, and Burning Wish. Two infinite turn combos, for example:

1) Intuition -> 3x Burning Wish, Helix, with a Wish in the SB (until a better way is found). Imprint two Wishes, get infinite starting with the one in your hand, recur Time Walk forever with the help of Psychatog, Decompose, or whatever.

2) Intuition -> 2x Burning Wish, Time Walk/Warp. Imprint a Wish and Walk, then proceed to Wish for Wish forever.

A third off the top of my head:

3) Random Sorcery With Buyback + Spellweaver Helix + Time Walk/Warp

[Tristal]

1) Intuition -> 3x Burning Wish, Helix, with a Wish in the SB (until a better way is found). Imprint two Wishes, get infinite starting with the one in your hand, recur Time Walk forever with the help of Psychatog, Decompose, or whatever.

Why not just Wish for one of the Imprinted ones to start?  You only need one of them to be Imprinted for Spellweaver to see it.

[Radagast]

From what I've heard, that wouldn't work - it would see one, but not the other, ergo when you play a copy of the first imprinted card, it goes to look for the other which isn't there, and does nothing. But if anyone thinks otherwise, I'd gladly be proved wrong. (Though the rules mill might be a better place.)

[grey area]

From the Mirroden FAQ on magicthegathering.com today:

Quote Spellweaver Helix 3

Artifact
Imprint -- When Spellweaver Helix comes into play, you may remove two target sorcery cards in a single graveyard from the game. (The removed cards are imprinted on this artifact.)
Whenever a card is played, if it has the same name as one of the imprinted sorcery cards, you may copy the other and play the copy without paying its mana cost.

If there's only one imprinted sorcery card, nothing happens.

If the two imprinted sorcery cards have the same name and a card with that name is played, only one copy is created, not two.

Spellweaver Helix's second ability creates a copy of the imprinted card in the removed-from-game zone (that's where the imprinted sorcery card is), then allows you to play it without paying its mana cost.

You play the copy while this ability is resolving, and still on the stack. Normally, you're not allowed to play spells and abilities at this time. Spellweaver Helix's ability breaks this rule. (The card that triggered this ability is also still on the stack.)

You don't pay the spell's mana cost. If a spell has X in its mana cost, X is 0. You do pay any additional costs for that spell. You can't use any alternative costs.

A split-card spell's name is only half the card's name, so Spellweaver Helix never triggers when a split card is played.

You can't play the copy if an effect prevents you from playing sorceries or from playing that particular sorcery.

You can't play the copy unless all of its targets can be chosen.

If you don't want to play the copy, you can choose not to; the copy ceases to exist the next time state-based effects are checked.

[Windfall]

The best way to take infinite turns with the Helix would be to imprint Timewalk and Burning Wish.  Then just Wish for a Burning Wish in the SB and copy Time Walk.

Intuition --> 2 Burning Wish, 1 Time Walk
They'll probably give you a Wish, which is good.  You'll then play the Helix and imprint the Wish and Walk from the graveyard.  Then you can go infinite.

     ~Mark