Stacks Primer (Part 1 of 2)

[Thug]

Quote With mud trix has been crushing me game one, but with UR artifact prison I've been doing at least 50/50.

[Rant]Can't Sleep[/Rant]

This is strange, very strange, since MUD runs more disruption and deploys a lot faster than Stax. Maybe your calling a different deck MUD, but if we're talking about the 'real' MUD here I can't understand these results.

But anyway, it's mainly about sphere, sphere does miracle's against trix. Also (recurring) wastelands are key, its all about disrupting them long enough to gain control. After sideboarding MUD gets to bring in Jester's Cap, which can end games very quickly.

Koen

[David Hernandez]

Hi,

here is my tourney report for the National's event on 6-28-2003.

http://www.themanadrain.com/cgi-bin....ry99825

The YawgWill and D.Tutor were awesome.  I posted my decklist with the report.  I don't see the need for Duress with the build like this, and I would run this again.

--Dave.

[Smmenen]

Ok.  My Stax primer/build is finally up on StarCitygames.

Steve\n\n

[David Hernandez]

Interesting.

That's my deck with an extra Meditate (-1 Time Vault) and the addition of Lotus Petal (-1 Karn).  It's cool how decks come full circle like this.

If you read my tourney report, you'll see that I actually sideboard out the Time Vault quite a bit.

However, I like the ability to go off with a Time Vault, and I like the backup win condition.  Based on the article, I will consider pulling the Time Vault in favor of a Meditate, but my gut feeling is that I am going to keep the Time Vault.

When Tony and I tested the build I ran, he wanted to put Duress in the main along with the YawgWill and Tutor (and he did put them in his personal build), but I felt the deck was stronger with just D.Tutor and YawgWill.  I won't run the Duress' in my main deck.

I disagree with your choice of removing the second Karn, and I'm not sure I will do it.  Not for a Lotus Petal.  BUT, I will test it.

Also, I'm not sure I agree with your choice of running Mox Diamond (and a 29th mana source to feed it), but I'll test it because you're Steve  , and I respect your opinion.

EDIT: I ran with 3 Volcanics, and I notice that your article slams anyone who does this.  However, I didn't have any problems with it.  In fact, it ran very smoothly and I I was very happy with the mana base.

It was an EXCELLENT article, and everyone in this forum should study it.

--Dave.

[Toast]

First of all let me start off by saying that build is the best stacks build I have seen, more draw sevens, less wasteful slots in which better cards could be run, etc.

good work, and I have a question for you...

A while back you claimed that the key to having the advantage in the TnT matchup was the right build...I am assuming you are running the right build, so my question is this, what are your initial reactions to playing against this version I am currently testing (I posted the list before I knew your build)

4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Mesmeric Fiend

4 Survival of the Fittest

1 Squee
1 Genesis
1 Lyrist
1 Safekeeper
2 Goblin Welder
1 Anger

4 Juggernaut
3 Su-chi
1 Karn
1 Masticore
2 Triskelion

7 Solomox
1 Mana Vault
4 Mishra's Workshop
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Bayou
3 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 City of Brass

SB:
2 Welder
13**UNDER CONSTRUCTION**

It will probably not become a huge threat until it gains some credibility, but in my testing it has destroyed most of the field, I would say it even goes 40/60 against combo (which was once a very outlandish claim from a TnT player).  What would you do if this theoretical matchup became more common place and what do you think your current odds would be? (yes it is fine to pull numbers out of your ass, I am not asking you to test the matchup)

[David Hernandez]

Toast,

which build are you talking about?

my first question about your build is "why aren't you running 4 welders in the main".

--Dave.

[Smmenen]

The card I was referring to at the time was Triskelion.  One of the reasons we have kept it in is because of TnT.  

Your TnT's duresses and discard could certainly wreck havoc to Stax hand, but it seems that Welder is the real threat - and having less casn only be good for me.  Additionally, you seem to have less permanents in favor of discard.  TnT can drop alot of permanents and so Stax will often find itself needing to dig to find more Wires, Spheres, and Stax.

Toad, you have a feeling on this?

Steve

[David Hernandez]

Steve,

the raw power of Triskelion is amazing.  I finished off two matches because of it.  

in the article, Toad mentions that you still liked the Time Vault, but I guess he didn't.  Is that correct, or did I misinterpret what was said?

i boarded the vault out so many times that your 4th meditate idea has me eager to try it out.

also, has anyone run that decklist in an actual tourney?

--dave.

[Toast]

the permanent count is actually relatively constant... I think I may have 3 or 4 less permanents than the average TnT build.

I have found that against most of the field 4 welder is simply not nessessary especially with the added protection created by the shear amount of discard. Obviously 4 welders are nicer to have in this matchup and I board them in but I think overall the matchup is better for tnt with the discard than without.

is 1 welder every 10 cards instead of every 7.5 (because of survival) and 4 less permanents really going to hurt TnT more than 10 discard spells 3 of which have flashback will hurt Stax?...this is a question that I asked myself when cutting the welders and the answer that I came up with was no...obviously this is a matter of opinion but I would not nessessarily dismiss the matchup as being better just because of less welders.

[Toad]

Quote (David Hernandez @ July 02 2003,10:27)

Quote the raw power of Triskelion is amazing.  I finished off two matches because of it.

The first thing that comes to my mind when thinking about Triskelion is "opponent's Welders". In the TNT matchup, Welders are the key of the victory. The first one that manages to keep actives Welders on the board wins. That's why Triskelion is worth a main deck slot. Furthermore, It's also an excellent solution to annoying critters such as, oh, Gorilla Shaman or Quirion Ranger. And it's also an excellent win condition on its own. That's why we don't feel the need to use 2 Karn.

Quote In the article, Toad mentions that you still liked the Time Vault, but I guess he didn't.  Is that correct, or did I misinterpret what was said?

Steve sees good points about the Time Vault. I don't. That's just personnal points of view. Time Vault is only usefull when you've got a Smokestack going, which probably means you're on your way winning. Skipping turns is nice, but drawing at the same time is better. That's why we run 4 Meditate. And Meditate can be used as a desperate move, thanks to the deck's redundancy, while Time Vault won't help when you're losing.

Quote also, has anyone run that decklist in an actual tourney?

Steve and Kevin Kron runned it at Origins. Steven went 4-2 and Kevin fourth with 5-1 if I remember well. I've played it twice in sanctionned tournament. Once at Neutral Grounds NY, winning the tourney with a 3-0 record beating a Phids deck, Sligh and Turbo Nevyn, and the other time last week-end. This time, I finished first in the swiss round (5-0-1 record, winning to Suicide, RG, Red Stompy, GAT and WW; ID with Dragon.dec), losing in the quaterfinals to GATr.

**

About Toast's TNT build.

The best threats TNT has are :
- a high permanent count, allowing to play around Tangle Wire, keeping critters untapped.
- Welder.

Disruption is strong against Stax, but I think running a high permanent count and Welder is stronger.

Matthieu

[David Hernandez]

Toad,

thanks for the info and clarification.  I'm REALLY happy with my build.  It's a grinding machine that is very hard to beat.  Had I taken the third game against Zhalfirin I would have won the event (i would have been 5-0-1 with better tie-breakers than anyone else).

i agree that Trisk is too good to leave out of the main deck.  I do see why you feel comfortable running only one Karn, but I can't bring myself to do it.

also, with the time vault, you bring up the points that i'm now considering.  The article was very helpful and informative.  It's a "must read" for anyone who has any desire to play this deck.

SpikeyMikey ran Energy Flux in his sideboard, and (apparently) handed a Stax deck it's head on a platter.  Outside of REB to stop it, that looks like a pretty good card against Stax.

dave.

[Thug]

All stax builds I have seen lately are including Black and totally moving away from wastelands, and I'm not sure if these decicions we're totally thought out.I understand these things are connected, since if you're to include Black you need a few more lands to get you're stable mana-base.

Not running Wastelands is a very big mistake in my opinion, it just a card that fits too good into the deck. I can't imagine runnig less than 4 of them.

In my opinion the toughest mastchup for Stax are TNT and Rectortrix, and off course the mirror. Against all these decks Wastelands easily earn their slot in your deck, since they can win games. You can deny TNT's red mana, waste opposite Workshops or attack the small manaabse of Rectortrix.

People might argue that all these thing are delt with after sideboarding in Blood Moon. But this is another card that I don't think is a no-brainer anymore. Now that GAT leaves the field, this loses a lot of potential. Blood Moon's are good against Rector-Trix, but they don't win you the game. What will win you the game is Jester's Cap, which happens to be also very good against Keeper, in case you wanted to keep Blood Moon for that. Jester's Cap is as easy to cast as Blood Moon, if not easier. And it can be recurred later if it was discarded of countered.

Black gives you two tools, Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will. Their are almost no builds that include more black cards between maindeck and sideboard. While I have to agree that Demonic Tutor is a great card, and it's pretty good in this deck, I totally don't agree with the Will. It will be sitting in your hand too often.

People argue that they include the Will too bring back all Moxen etc that were sacrificed to Smokestack, and sure this would be major fun, but if your Smokestack is up and running, you should be winning, and if your not, a couple or moxes more isn't going to change that.

So to me the questionwas, is Demonic Tutor worth it to drop some Wastelands and add more coloured Mana sources. This wasn't very hard.... No! And both these black cards take up valuable slots in your Maindeck.

Another thing I noticed is that no-one seems to Maindeck any Fire/Ice's anymore, and they are even leaving sideboards.
Now take into mind that Fire/Ice is another card that helps a lot in some hard Matchups: Mirror, TNT and Sligh. Therefore I would people to explain me why exactly they think that adding black is worth it...

Koen

[David Hernandez]

Hi Thug,

for me, the decision to run black has come from testing this deck almost obsessively over the past couple of months.  There were matchups where i was begging for a yawgwill.  I finally decided that the card is too broken to ignore.  D.Tutor was a no-brainer after i had the black available.

on a side-note, and as another pointer to the Dulmen builds, my tie against Jeff Stones could have been won if i had Balance...

Anyway, as for Wastelands, my comment on this is that there isn't room in the main deck if you are running U/R/b.  I run a Wasteland in my sideboard, and it was great, but I am comfortable leaving it there.

Tony Soto ran a Strip Mine and a Wasteland MD, and another Waste in the side. He pulled Grim Monolith for it, but  I didn't like what it did to my mana base.

If i were running MUD, i would run a full compliment of Wastes, as it would not affect my ability to cast colored spells.

Rector Trix is a tough match.  Actually, the Bottle Gnomes are good here as they can keep you alive after you get donated an Illusions.  I run Jester's Cap in my sideboard as well, vs. Oath of Druids and Trix.

By the way, if YawgWill is just sitting in your hand, then it's turn one and you should mulligan.

Is D.tutor worth running in place of Wasteland? YES. Unquestionably IMO.  As for YawgWill, it's BROKEN in this deck.

Fire/Ice is sub-optimal to Triskelion/D.Tutor/YawgWill, and in the sideboard it didn't fit my metagame as well as a second Triskelion and 3 Rack & Ruin.

All I know is, I was undefeated going into my 6th round against the best players in California, and the Tutor & Will had a LOT to do with it.

All of the other cards i had tested were sub-optimal to these 2 extremely broken black cards.  Mana Leak was good, but not as good. Black Vise and Scroll Rack and Waterfront Bouncer were not as good.  Fire/Ice was not as good.

Put the black in your deck.

--Dave.

[Thug]

Quote Anyway, as for Wastelands, my comment on this is that there isn't room in the main deck if you are running U/R/b.  I run a Wasteland in my sideboard, and it was great, but I am comfortable leaving it there.

Like I said running no wasteland and runnig black are connected to eatchother, but I still would rahter run my wastelands, even if it costed me the option to add two black cards.

Quote If i were running MUD, i would run a full compliment of Wastes, as it would not affect my ability to cast colored spells.

In MUD you should run 4 Wastes and 4 Fields. Maybe testing and playing with a possible 9 stripeffects made me realize how good they are. But don't get my wrong, I didn't look at all of this from my MUD's point of view, I have been testing with Stax and played with it last tournament (I went 4-1-1 respectively)

Quote Rector Trix is a tough match.  Actually, the Bottle Gnomes are good here as they can keep you alive after you get donated an Illusions.

Bottle Gnomes is something you are defeniatly going to need if your not runnig Fire/Ices somewhere, but I dont think they are all that hot against Trix, since if your opponent donate's you an Illusions, if will be minimal effort for him to donate you another one, even if it just takes a single turn longer.

Quote By the way, if YawgWill is just sitting in your hand, then it's turn one and you should mulligan.

I really can't understand this argument, It's not just dead the first turn, if you dont have a lotus somewhere it could easily be dead the first five turns.
And if you about to mulligan every hand with a Will in it, that would just be .... stupid, that means your giving up a card in your starting hand just for having the opinion of topdecking a Will later on, which might not be neccesairy then, or might not help anymore.

Quote Is D.tutor worth running in place of Wasteland? YES.

But is it worth to run Demonic in place of 4 Wasteland and a Fire/Ice??

Quote Fire/Ice is sub-optimal to Triskelion/D.Tutor/YawgWill, and in the sideboard it didn't fit my metagame as well as a second Triskelion and 3 Rack & Ruin.

I fail to see how Demonic or Will are going to help you against two angry 2/1 that are coming your way, sure if you could Demonic for Triskelion and cast it, but that would just be ... broken.

[David Hernandez]

Quote I fail to see how Demonic or Will are going to help you against two angry 2/1 that are coming your way, sure if you could Demonic for Triskelion and cast it, but that would just be ... broken

I tutor for will and then replay 2 Wires.  Or Will for Trisk. Or whatever. It's broken and restricted for a reason.  

Look, if you enjoy playing Waste's, then play them.  They're an awesome card against the best decks out there and you've obviously had success.  

But in the build I'm running, they are sub-optimal, and you are probably not going to convince me, Smmenen, and Toad until your build beats our heads in consistently.

--Dave.

[Toad]

Honnestly, I really dislike Wastelands in Stax. I've even been running a biland over the Strip Mine for a short period. Maybe it's just my playstyle. I want speed, no disruption. I want every land I play to make mana to cast lock spells. Wastelands are great in MUD. But black is simply better in Stax.

Demonic Tutor and Yawgmoth's Will have already won me a huge amount of games.

Demonic is often Tolarian Academy #2, but also a polyvalent tutor that can get a missing lock component or a draw7.

And Yawgmoth's Will. Well. It's Yawgmoth's Will. Even if you just replay 1 or 2 mana artifacts and a land, you would have made card advantage. Against Keeper, TNT, the mirror match and others, you really WANT the Yawgmoth's Will. Last week end, I was playing against GATr in a tourney. He had Fastbond on the board, and I had to grow a Smokestack up to 4 counters. It wrecked his board, leaving him naked. It wrecked mine too. I only had a Workshop and a Sol Ring remaining. But I was holding Lotus and Yawgmoth's Will in hand. At the end of my turn, I had 4 Moxens, a Petal, Tolarian Academy, a Smokestack, a Sphere of Resistance, had casted Ancestral Recall and Time Walk. Broken, isn't it ?

[Thug]

It must be a difference in playstyle then, because I dont like cards like Windfall, Lotup Petal and Time Walk either. With a great start there's not much that can stop this deck, but you won't always get one, so I rather go for the more consistent route than the more broken, but less consistent one.

Quote I tutor for will and then replay 2 Wires.  Or Will for Trisk. Or whatever. It's broken and restricted for a reason.  

The thing is, you will be facing two 2/1's on turns 2, and if you won't deal with them quick you are going to be burned out. If you can do these things you stated on turn 2 or 3 consistent I can imagine why you won't be needing Fire/Ice's...

Quote But in the build I'm running, they are sub-optimal, and you are probably not going to convince me, Smmenen, and Toad until your build beats our heads in consistently.

For real, I think my version will have the upper hand against yours, fire/ice owns welders and wastelands can slow you down a lot. But you won't see this matchup a lot, so it doesn't really matter.

Quote Broken, isn't it ?

That sure was a broken play, but how often does it really happen, I will be the last to say that Yawgmoth's Will isn't broken, but it sure needs the right cicumstances, and I didn't reach them often in testing.

[David Hernandez]

Both of you (Toad and Thug) make a good point about play style.  It's the reason i am hesitant to run a Lotus Petal, a Mox Diamond, and a single Karn.  But in the case of those cards, i am more inclined to try them over Wastelands.  My mana base WORKS, and it works well.

And Thug, you're right, we wont see that matchup much (if at all).  Have you posted a decklist?  I wouldn't mind testing it out on Apprentice.

Dave.

[Black_plague]

Toad or Smmenen have you guys tested against the new styles of Combo Keeper like The Shining. If so what were your results and what would you advice for sb options.
thank you
Luis

[Smmenen]

Keon,

Your build absolutely gets WRECKED by Hurkyl's Recall.  That's why I would never play it.  And since the Stax hate is only going to increase, I would say we have an advantage over you in that regard


Steve

[Thug]

Quote Have you posted a decklist?  I wouldn't mind testing it out on Apprentice.

I didn't want to spam the thread with my decklist.
But here's the build that is optimal in my opinion:

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Volcanic Island
5 Fetch
1 Shivan Reef
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Acedemy
1 City of Traitors

7 Solomox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith/Metalworker

4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
2 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Memory Jar
1 Triskelion

4 Goblin Welder
1 Wheel of Fortune

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
3 Meditate
1 Mystical (debating)

2 Fire/Ice

Sideboard:

Depending but for sure:

4 Jester's Cap
2 Bottle Gnome
1/2 Fire/Ice
3 REB
2 Rack and Ruin

And yes I know the list is 61 cards, I would cut the mystical right now, but maybe a land gets the edge.

Koen

P.S. Here you can also find the list I played during last tournament, but it was far from optimal, because I'm was missing Jet, Lotus, Wheel and Triskelion.

Koen

[Thug]

Quote Keon,

Your build absolutely gets WRECKED by Hurkyl's Recall.  That's why I would never play it.  And since the Stax hate is only going to increase, I would say we have an advantage over you in that regard

It's Koen    

And yes the build I played last tournament could get wrecked by Hurkle's Recall because I was playing with Skullcaps, however I ended up sideboarding them out most of the time and do not play with them anymore. So that argument doesn't stand anymore. But I totally agree the build I played was far from optimal,

Koen

[Smmenen]

Your build seems very good.  The two things I would change for sure is add a fourth Meditate and add an Island (besides dropping to 60 cards).  I saw you play Grafted Skullcap in your tournament build which gets hosed by Hurkyl's.  I see nothing wrong per se with what you've done with the two exceptions of not having a fourth Meditate and the fact that Painlands Should not be used in T1 anymore.  You should have a basic Island I feel for when you move Blood Moons in.  If anything, it should be more consistent than mine.  

Steve\n\n

[Thug]

Sorry for posting this often in this little time Mods

Quote Your build seems very good.  The only thing I would change for sure is add a fourth Meditate.  I saw you play Grafted Skullcap in your tournament build which gets hosed by Hurkyl's.  I see nothing wrong per se with what you've done.  If anything, it should be more consistent than mine.  

Steve

Thanks, I already guessed you saw the Skullcaps  
So far I haven't really liked the 4th Meditate, I actually thought about dropping the 3rd one, but that didn't work out. I will test the 4th again, just because you guys like it so much.
And the decks still play very much simular and should both be able to win some tournament's  !

Koen

EDIT: I did have an island before, but didn't really like it, I cutted it now, since I don't see any reason to board blood moon's. Also since I'm running few coloured mana-sources I rather have them all produce both red and blue.

[Smmenen]

I _really_ like Lotus Petal.  Unlike Toad, I think the most difficult addition to defend of the "Terrible Twelve" is Mox Diamond, Not Lotus Petal.  

Lotus Petal is just about amazing in every way for me.  I also think that you want to maximize the accelleration in a deck like this to increase it's impact.  Wastelands help increase it's impact to though.  

Steve

[David Hernandez]

Steve,

of all the cards in your listing, i disliked Mox Diamond the most.  I can see trying out the Lotus Petal because of the extra one-mana advantage it will give, especially if it comes up early.

my friend Tony (some of the TMDer's met him at National's with me) suggests that running 4 Meditate and a Time Vault might be viable.  I don't know about that.  

I think a total of 4 between those cards is the limit.  He suggested that the Windfall could be dropped if you wanted to add a Meditate, and then just run all 5.  That's a possibility.

I really disagree with your single Karn, but i think that's playstyle and insurance on my part.

I will look at making room for the petal, and then i'll test it out.

@Thug:
Again, Wasteland was great as a sideboard card, and I brought it in a lot, but my mana base works incredibly well and i dont want to screw with it.

i think you should run 1 basic island, even if it's only to defend against an opponent's Blood Moon.  

I would drop the City of Traitor's completely, and replace the 5th Fetch Land with the Basic Island.  

Don't run a Metalworker--he's suboptimal. And, drop the Mystical for the 4th Meditate since you aren't running a Time Vault.

I think you should drop 1 Fire/Ice in favor of Windfall, and move the Fire/Ice to your sideboard.  

Drop 1 or 2 Cap's from the side also, and add back a 4th REB.  I added a Masticore to my sideboard, and i was VERY happy that i did.  When he hit the table, it was Game Over for the opponent. I suggest you add one.

This would put you at 60 cards MD, and would give you a good run against most of the field.  I still think you should run at least 2 Blood Moon's in the SB, but i dont know what your metagame is like.  You're still likely to run into Hulk, Modified GAT, Academy, Keeper, etc., and i think you should re-consider.

Outside of those few things, I think you have a good build.

@Black_Plague:
Tony and I tested against The Shining.  That deck is VERY strong.  We almost played it at National's because it's 'that good'.  Games were about 50/50 against my "Stax_Remix" (see the list HERE).

The power of Future Sight with Fastbond is impressive (= Broken) and difficult to escape from.  

The deck takes some skill to play, like Keeper does, but with practice your opponents will get fried.  I suggest using Kaervek's Torch for the kill because of the extra 2-mana  required to stop it, instead of Fireball.

Dave.

[Toad]

Quote I really disagree with your single Karn, but i think that's playstyle and insurance on my part.

I've got only one thing to tell you : "Test it". When Steve suggested to cut a Karn from the maindeck, I was really reluctant too. Having only 1 primary win condition is something that made me feel uncomfortable. But I gave it a try, and started playing with only 1 Karn (Time Walk over it). You've played the deck a lot, and you know that, most of the time, you just drop Karn for the win, when your lock is going on. The only real threat Karn has to face is Swords to Plowshares, thanks to Welders. Even if you lose Karn, you still have Triskelion has a strong win condition. It will put your opponent on a 5-turn clock. I've already been in a situation where both Karn and Triskelion had been RFG. Welders are not only utility critters, they are still 1/1 critters that can kill.

I've won 11 games in the last tourney where I played Stax. I've killed 4 times with my single Karn, once with Triskelion. And the other 6 times the opponent scooped once caught in a hard lock. You can kill with Karn, you can kill with Triskelion. But most of the time you won't even need to kill.

Matt

[Thug]

@David Hernandez

I'm sorry to say so, but I don't really like your attitude, your like telling me what to change, without much furthur explanation. Sure, you can suggest things, but this goes a lot further than that.

Quote i think you should run 1 basic island, even if it's only to defend against an opponent's Blood Moon.

I would be very surprised if my opponent sided in Blood Moons against me to nullify the grant total of 6/7 cards. And even if the Blood Moon hits, Sapphire and Lotus still will produce blue.

Quote I would drop the City of Traitor's completely, and replace the 5th Fetch Land with the Basic Island.

I like the single City of Traitors, it's like running a little more acceleration. It speeds up Smokestacks and Tangle Wire's, but can also pay for Meditates. And I would rather replace the Reef with an Island if I was going to include a basic Island.

Quote Don't run a Metalworker--he's suboptimal. And, drop the Mystical for the 4th Meditate since you aren't running a Time Vault.

Metalworker can be suboptimal from time to time, but it can also be the bomb. Looking at my aim to get maximum consistency I would probably be better off with the Monolith than the Worker, right.
As said before I didn't really like the 4th meditate in testing, and it's not a given that you need to run 4 skip-turn cards. I have been doing fine with 3.
I really like the mystical, but I'm still not sure if it deserves it's place. The thing is, it's very cheap and can get so much different things: Fire/Ice, Ancestral, Meditate, Twister and Tinker are common targets.

Quote I think you should drop 1 Fire/Ice in favor of Windfall, and move the Fire/Ice to your sideboard.

I really dislike Windfall, it's too situational, and I really want to keep two fire/ice's in the maindeck, since they help in your toughest matchups.

Quote Drop 1 or 2 Cap's from the side also, and add back a 4th REB.  I added a Masticore to my sideboard, and i was VERY happy that i did.  When he hit the table, it was Game Over for the opponent. I suggest you add one.

I won't drop a Cap, since (as also said before) it can steal games to easily. It's your main weapon against keeper, trix and other combo. I didn't really like the REB's since they are useless against Rectortrix and only really good against Bluebased control, which is something I don't really see much.

Masticore could be pretty good, but would it be better than adding the second Triskelion to the sidebaord? I'm not sure, I think the both have their pro's and con's.

Quote I still think you should run at least 2 Blood Moon's in the SB, but i dont know what your metagame is like.  You're still likely to run into Hulk, Modified GAT, Academy, Keeper, etc., and i think you should re-consider.

I'm not sure of what's the metagame is exactly going to look like, but if a lot of GAT or Hulk shows up, Blood Moon can come back again. Against Keeper and Academy Jester's Cap does it's work just fine.

[David Hernandez]

Hi Thug,

please dont get me wrong--in NO WAY was i trying to have an attitude with you.  I thought you were asking for an opinion, and based on your build (which i happen to like), those were the changes that "I" would make.  So, i shared that with you for consideration.

sorry if i came across as having an attitude.  That certainly was not my intention.

dave.

[Toad]

Koen,

Windfall is probably the most controversial card in our build, along with the Mox Diamond. I prefectly understand why you don't run it, as it's somehow situational. Could you give me additionnal thoughts about your Mystical Tutor ? I've tried it for a little while, but I found that getting a draw7 or a Meditate was not worth the tempo loss and the tremendous card disadvantage.

I've been running 4 Red Elemental Blast since then, but the worst threats you'll have to face (counters excepted) are not blue. Naturalize, Swords to Plowshares, Smother, Artifact Mutation, etc... are all worse than a counter effect. I'm considering dropping a couple of them for more polyvalent solutions.  My sideboard is changing almost every day in order to adapt the deck to July's metagame.

Once again, great build. I've goldfished it a couple of times yesterday evening, it's really strong and consistent, even if a little bit slower than our, imho.

Matt.