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Author Topic: White Weenie article for review  (Read 7458 times)
Bastian
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« on: September 07, 2003, 01:41:41 pm »

Playing White Weenie in Vintage
by Pedro Godinho


Introduction:
White Weenie is one of the oldest archetypes there is. It exists since the very first sets and is a simple yet versatile deck to play. Combining small efficient white creatures with efficient white utility you have a deck that can give many decks a run for their money.

The deck always existed and although it gave some of its power over with time, about when Urza’s Saga came out and made combo and control even better than before. Can White Weenie prevail in the metagame in which type 1 has become? First of all we must ask ourselves what kind of metagame we are playing in. Is the deck meant for casual or competitive play?

I assume that casually playing anyone can make a WW deck and play it since winning or losing won’t make much of a difference. Since I’m aiming at a more competitive environment, and thus aiming for victory or the best performance possible, my concern was to further test and develop monocolored White Weenie as far as it could go.

Basic structure:
I’ll start with the classic built of White Weenie, the monocolored version.  For reference a sample deck which made me restructure all of my builts of the deck:

Wilkinson White Weenie by Eric Wilkinson
2 Devout Witness
4 Savannah Lions
4 Soltari Priest
4 Soltari Monk
4 Icatian Javelineers
4 Mother of Runes
4 White Knight

4 Land Tax
4 Null Rod
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
14 Plains

SB:
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Samite Ministration
3 Conversion
1 Pacifism
3 Armageddon
4 Seal of Cleansing

Eric Wilkinson came up with this decklist to face a fully powered type 1 environment at Neutral Ground. His decklist revolutionized my standard built of monowhite White Weenie. It introduces a larger number of one drop creatures, and a smaller basic land count. This allows for fewer dead cards in hand. Devout Witness was a metagame specific decision since at the time artifact decks (most specifically TNT) ruled the metagame. (they still do for that matter...)

With the new design in mind I built my own version of the deck:

A maze’ing White Weenie
16 Plains
1 Strip Mine
2 Maze of Ith
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl

2 Devout Witness
3 Mother of Runes
4 Savannah Lions
4 Silver Knight
4 Soltari Monk
4 Soltari Priest
4 Icatian Javalineers
3 Weathered Wayfarer

4 Land Tax
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Null Rod

SB:
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sacred Ground
1 Aura of Silence
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 True Believer
4 Seal of Cleansing

The Mana Base:
Although it’s quite viable to play as few as 14 plains, the set of strip mine/wastelands that Eric packs can also be tapped for mana, so if he draws into those he won’t be mana screwed, since he only needs as much as two plains in play.
Land destruction can be quite disruptive, but it won’t win you games on its own, nor it will stall them for long enough for you to win them. This is one of White Weenie’s major problems: it can sometimes race for the damage and get near to kill the opponent, only to lose before that happens, thus the inclusion of Maze of Ith which is discussed later on.

The artifact mana is essential to keep a low land count and make Land Tax work, which the deck should be able to. No Mox Diamond is present because it can screw up mana production.
If you have two plains in hand then you can have two mana available in a couple of turns.
If you have a Diamond and a plains in hand you will be able to play the Diamond but you might not draw into a land the following turn, or you could play the plains and not having a land to discard to the Diamond next. Either way you’re losing tempo and playing with the Diamond would demand the use of even more lands which would take up too many useful slots.

The Creatures:
One thing that white lacks is decent creatures at 1cc. Besides Savannah Lions there have been few decent 1cc creatures. Some cards like Mother of Runes and Ramosian Sergeant have been tested and although they’re quite good 1cc creatures, they don’t always make the cut.

Mother of Runes
There are two periods that can be considered in type 1. Modern type 1 as it stands today and type 1 before, when control dictated the rules and the format was ruled mostly by control and aggro-control or aggro decks designed to beat it.

Before Mother would have been a bad 1cc drop. It can’t attack if it uses her ability and it can’t attack and use it. Also, before there weren’t as many aggro decks besides Sligh and Suicide Black and some other random decks.
However, and even though artifact decks are very popular in the format, Mother has found a place back in WW. It can serve as a blocker vs creatures from which your weenies won’t usually have protection from, be used as a blocker, essentialy gaining you the time you need to kill the opponent.

With the raising popularity of decks like Madness and Vengeur Masqué and the use of more diferent colored creatures Mother has been quite useful in saving some games that would have otherwise been lost. It also smooths the mana curve giving you more creatures at 1cc to cast on the first turn.

Icatian Javalineers
The Javalineers are a great card. They’re the equivelent to a white Mogg Fanatic. Whereas the Mogg is sacked the Javalineers are not, allowing it to be kept in play for longer although it can’t make use of its ability the turn it comes into play.
The Javalineers ability gives White Weenie another card to deal with creatures beyond Swords to Plowshares. It can deal with random 1-toughness creatures, namely Goblin Welders, unpumped Quirion Dryads or Nantuko Shades, Mox Monkeys, etc...

Weathered Wayfarer
Weathered Wayfarer is a very understimated weenie. Many people suggested the use of Ramosian Sergeant and Whipcorder mainly because of Phyrexian Dreadnoughts and Psychatog. Weathered Wayfarer can tutor for Maze of Ith much the same way the Sergeant does for Whipcorder, at a smaller price and without the disadvantage of Maze of Ith being countered or be destroyed by Pernicious Deed, Smother, etc... like Whipcorder is.
Since you should keep yourself with a low land count at most of the time it shouldn’t be hard to use it. The ability to tutor for Maze of Ith has been great. Otherwise the cleric can be used to at least thin your deck a land at a time, as an early attacker or a late chump blocker.

Savannah Lions
Do they really need an explanation?

Soltari Monk/Priest
The shadow creatures are there because they’re nearly unblockable, allowing me to deal those final damage points needed to win the damage race.
I haven’t used Order of Leitbur/White Shield because of their 1-toughness which makes them more vulnerable to several sources of removal. I had replaced them with White Knight first when Fire/Ice started to became popular, since using the 2-toughness creature meant only losing a creature instead of two 1-toughness guys.

Silver Knight
The Silver Knight is mostly a metagame call, since you can use White Knight if you’re expecting to run into more Suicide Black or going to find Abysses... Since that’s not my case I opted for Silver Knight.

Devout Witness
Devout Witness is an answer to the increasing dominating artifact decks: TNT and Stax. The Witness is a reusable disenchant which can kill any threat this artifacts can throw at you. I used to play three but as TNT started to appear less I dropped down to two. In the Mask Matches dropping a Witness can pretty much win you the game since you can deal with either the Dreadnoughts, the Masks or Survival of the Fittest (in Vengeur Masqué’s case), over and over again.

The Spells:
First of all I’ll talk about the spells I’m NOT using:

When most people think about WW they think about Crusade, Empyrial Armor or even Glorious Anthem, all of which are or were great in other formats but not quite so in type 1. At 2cc you’d rather being playing a threat rather than an enchantment that won’t do anything on its own.

To have a Crusade/Anthem deal as much damage as a normal creature at the same cost would takes you at least two creatures in play. So you’d be better off actually another 2-power threat.
To have a Crusade/Anthem deal more damage than a normal creature at the same casting cost would you need to have more than a couple of creatures in play, and from that moment on you start to overextend and you risk losing your creatures to a Balance or a Keg. This is the main reason why Crusade isn’t good. You’d rather much more playing actual threats.

Empyrial Armor is better than Crusade but it’s always Mana Drained or the creature you’re targeting with it is destroyed, which makes a pretty short life out of the armor and results in card disadvantage. There may even be cases where you have it misdirected to one of your opponent’s creatures! The armor makes a great combo with Land Tax but, once more, you’d rather much more being playing an actual threat.

I’m also not playing the Land Tax-Scroll Rack because:
-it takes two cards to setup and the combo doesn’t automatically win me the game.
-it’s also easily destroyed or countered much like Armor is, resulting in loss of tempo and other resources.

It’s not that it’s a bad combo, but it’s that the deck can’t afford to lose time trying to set it up to then lose it. If Enlightened Tutor was unrestricted... then it would be different.

Balance is also not here. When playing an aggro deck you’re expecting to have more or just as much creatures as your opponent is if they’re playing control/combo or aggro respectively. Then you have a card that’s dead most of the time and which is only good when you’re in a situation where you have less creatures than the opponent.

What am I using then? Besides the obvious staples Null Rods are there since I’m aiming at fully powered environment. If it wasn’t so many of these deck choices would probably be different and instead of Rods I’d be packing Seals of Cleansing maindeck.

One of the major changes in this deck is that Enlightened Tutor passed from the maindeck to the sideboard. This is because it was a dead card most of the time and having a fifth or second copy of any enchantment or artifact, respectively, in the deck wasn’t going to make much more of a difference. But after sideboarding in some hosers it does. Enlightened Tutor allows me to pack enough copies of the spells I need on the sideboard and acts as a copy of any of those enchantments games two and three.


The Sideboard and match up analysis

Hulk
-4 Silver Knights
-2 Devout Witness
-2 Icatian Javalineers

+1 Enlightened Tutor
+3 Tormod’s Crypt
+4 True Believers

The psychatog match is one of the most, if not the most difficult one for White Weenie to win. You should race for victory, because when they have the tog on play, if they have enough cards in the grave and they wish for a berserk, you’re as good as dead.
Why True Believers? Simple... Are the Silver Knights better? No, because the Psychatog can be easily pumped and if you have a True Believer in play you can avoid being hit by a duress that could otherwise take you a precious card from hand. It’s small details like these that can make a difference, so it’s worth to replace the knights for this match.
Getting a Maze of Ith in play as soon as possible is essential to keep you alive. It doesn’t mean that the tog player can’t still kill you, but I’m yet to see a tog deck ready to deal with Mazes and it takes them some tricks to deal with it. It was essentially because of the way a Maze of Ith can affect this match and because it can be tutored for with Weathered Wayfarer that I decided to pack the combo instead of the rebel chain- Sergeant-Whipcorder.

TNT
-1 Strip Mine
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Land Tax
-3 Mother of Runes

+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Aura of Silence
+4 Seal of Cleansing

With the downfall of the popularity of TNT I decreased the number of Devout Witnesses maindeck. Having an active Witness can be game winning against the TNT player. Side in four seals to deal with random tubbies and most of all Survival of the Fittest. Always keep Goblin Welder out of the board and if possible kill it with the Javalineers and keep StP for other threats like Masticore.

Stax
-4 Null Rod
-3 Mother of Runes
-1 Maze of Ith

+1 Enlightened Tutor
+4 Seal of Cleansing
+1 Aura of Silence
+2 Sacred Ground

Some people ask why should I just remove the Null Rods in the Stax matchup. Null Rods come out because the Stax deck’s most threatning artifacts don't have an ability that demands an activation cost. Smokestack, Sphere of Resistance, Tangle Wire are dangerous on their own with or without Null Rod in play and I'd rather much more draw into any of the cards I'm siding in for that match than a Null Rod.

Sacred Ground is there to counter the ability of the Smokestack. Sacrificing lands because of the Smokestack while Sacred Ground’s in play means that your lands will come back to play. There are no efficient ways to deal with Tangle Wire present in the deck, but the ammount of 1cc creatures in play is one of the possible solutions to provide targets for Tangle Wire while leaving your attackers alone.

Vengeur Masqué
-4 Null Rod
-4 Land Tax

+1 Enlightened Tutor
+4 Seal of Cleansing
+2 Tormod’s Crypt
+1 Aura of Silence

Just like in the Stax match it may seem unreasonable to side out Null Rods because they can stop Illusionary Mask.
The Illusionary Mask/Phyrexian Dreadnought is fast enough to come out before you can pull out a Null Rod so relying on those is not a good idea. What good is it that you stop Illusionary Mask from working if they already have a 12/12 trampler in play? Even if you do play Null Rod before that happens they can always get Volrath’s Shapeshifter to copy the Dreadnought.

So it’s a better idea to replace the Rods with disenchant effects that allow you to deal with the Mask or with the Dreadnought after it comes into play. Getting a Maze or even two if necessary is a good way to stall the opponent until you get an ansewer. Ideally a Devout Witness comes through and allows you to kill Dreadnoughts, Masks or Survival.

Suicide Black
no changes

Silver Knight isn’t White Knight. It can’t block or go unblocked vs Suicide Black, it won’t kill a Nantuko Shade or a Phyrexian Negator unless the opponent doesn’t pump the first or sacrifice a couple of permanents to the second, so you’re better off by using a creature that can improve your ability to not be targeted by discard
or random edicts.
Moms should provide you with the protection from black your creatures may need while you attack. Mazes are also a good way to prevent the damage from unblocked Negators or Shades.

Sligh
No changes.

The sligh match should be an easy one to win. Between eight protection from red creatures and Moms you should be able to win this match fairly easily.

Fish
-3 Weathered Wayfarer

+3 Seal of Cleansing (In case the opponent packs Mishra’s Factories. None otherwise.)

This match should be in White Weenie’s favour. The fish deck can be good vs control and combo but it usually does poorly vs other aggro decks. Their creatures will hardly be bigger than yours, unless they manage to play enough Lords of Atlantis. Icatian Javalineers are great to deal with most of their creatures and Silver Knight’s first strike makes a great creature in this match.

The only problem I can see in this match is the possibility of them packing Mishra’s Factories amongst a set of Faerie Conclaves. The conclaves won’t probably win the damage race in the long term since you should outrun them, but the factories, if present, can deal with just about any of your creatures. If such is the case a lonely Null Rod is enough to stop them.

Grow
no changes

The gro match can be a pain similiarly to the one versus Psychatog. Dryads can grow huge in no time, the only way to deal with them being to block them with Moms or using Mazes while killing with Shadows or something else with protection from green (granted by Mother of Runes).

Void
I can count three possible void decklists. Two monoblack and one black with a splash of green for Naturalize and Pernicious Deed.

The oldest version usually packs three Nether Voids and the usual assortment of land destruction spells and about eight creatures and, possibly, Mishra’s Factories.

The most recent monoblack version makes use of several “mini voids”, Sphere of Resistance and a lonely Nether Void to lock the game.

The third, that uses a splash of green for Pernicious Deeds, and for that, quite possibly, the worst match of them three.

Monoblack Void

-3 Weathered Wayfarer
-2 Maze of Ith
-1 Strip Mine
-1 Icatian Javalineers

+3 True Believer
+4 Seal of Cleansing

Whatever deck you’re playing against Land Tax is one of the most important cards in this match. Land Tax provides you with a very cheap way to deal with land destruction and random discard, since it increases the chances of you discarding a land instead of a valuable spell in case you’re targeted by a Hymn or attacked by an Hypnotic Specter.
Another equally important card is Null Rod. Usually some void decks pack Masticore in the SB and Powder Kegs either maindeck or also in the SB and sometimes even Mishra’s Factories. All can be stopped by an early keg since the deck should have no way to deal with it after you drop it.

Seals can help you destroy voids before they hit and deal with those annoying Spheres. True Believers further increase your ability to deal with targeted discard.

B/G Void
SB changes are same as above.

I consider this to be the worst void match because of Pernicious Deeds. Not only that but the deck usually packs Naturalizes in the SB. A single Deed can destroy all your creatures, Null Void, Land Tax and allow them to keep Void in play along with Hypnotic Specter so keep the deeds off the table by destroying them before they go out and try not to overextend too much so if they do, you won’t lose as many creatures/enchantment/artifacts.

Madness
-2 Devout Witness
-1 Null Rod

+3 Tormod’s Crypt

This deck has grown in popularity enough to be worth mentioning just how dangerous it can be. Relying on the Bazaar of Baghdad and Squee combo this deck has a powerful card drawing engine which also allows it to fuel powerful creatures into play. All of the deck’s creatures (except for Squee) are or can be larger than yours and they have counter magic backup.

Getting an early Wayfarer and tutoring for a Maze or two or dropping Mom can give you some time while beating them down with something else (usually shadows). Remove their graveyard from play so you can remove Squees along with it are the two things you should be aiming for.
Basking Rootwalla can be dealt with Icatian Javalineers before it’s pumped but Mongrels and Wurms are a problem a bit more difficult to deal with. Plow either one of them since your creatures shouldn’t be able to deal with them.

The most dangerous threat are the Wurm tokens since they can be the largest creatures they have, allied to the power of a buried Wonder. If they have a 6/6 flyer and you don’t deal with it fast it’s game over.

Keeper
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-2 Silver Knight
-1 Maze of Ith
-3 Weathered Wayfarer

+4 True Believer
+4 Seal of Cleansing
+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Aura of Silence

Versus keeper and combo keeper you’re better off using True Believer which can protect you from Mind Twist, Edicts, Duress and in case of The Shining, Tendrils of Agony. What made the keeper match so difficult wasn’t neither of its creature control measures: Swords to Plowshares, The Abyss or Moat but Morphling. With losing popularity to other kill cards (easier to deal with) and to Psychatog, you’ll rarely have to worry about Keeper. If so the only way to win it is to win the damage race. Dropping an angel and having it swing a couple of times can determine the outcome of the game in your favour.

Against combo keeper having a True Believer in play or dropping an early Null Rod can slow down the game until you win.

Combo (Trix, Tendrils, Academy, Dragon)
Trix/Tendrils/Academy
-4 Silver Knight
-4 Land Tax
-2 Maze of Ith

+4 True Believer
+4 Seal of Cleansing
+1 Aura of Silence
+1 Enlightened Tutor

Having a Null Rod as soon as possible can slow them down enough but ideally you’ll play have a True Believer before they can go off. The Believer makes you untargetable which means that neither Donate or Tendrils of Agony can target you unless they deal with the creature. Swords to Plowshares are golden vs Academy Rector. Land Tax goes out since the combo player should be keeping less lands than you in play.

Wolrdgorger Dragon.dec
-4 Silver Knight
-2 Maze of Ith
-2 Devout Witness
-3 Weathered Wayfarer

+4 True Believer
+3 Seal of Cleansing
+3 Tormod’s Crypt
+1 Enlightened Tutor

Having a True Believer before the combo player goes off is crucial to winning the match. Tormod's Crypt, Swords to Plowshares or Seal of Cleansing can be used when the moment comes into play to keep it from coming back. (In the case of the Crypt it would be used when the Dragon hit the graveyard).

Alternate Deck and Sideboard Options
Along the way there were some cards that were tested and worth their place in White Weenie. Some stayed others didn’t. Here are some honorable mentions. Some are more popular and other may seem like more obscure choices, but I assure you that they all are worth a second look if you’re looking to change the deck somehow.

Suntail Hawk: Before I started to use Icatian Javalineers I used Suntail Hawks. This bird is a pretty good creature at 1cc since. It’s a Soltari Foot Soldier that can chump block if needed. It’s also the second best offensive white weenie at 1cc. While the lions can attack for a couple of turns or more to then die to a larger blocker the Hawk can just fly unblocked meaning it may end up doing more damage than the lions in the long run.

Ramosian Sergeant and Whipcorder: Whipcorders are mostly good vs creatures like Dreadnoughts or Psychatog. It buys you time until you can deal with them or kill your opponent. I have found it golden vs Psychatog but not that much good in other matches... The Sergeants, although not very good on their own are virtual copies of Whipcorder.

Intrepid Hero: At the same price I can play Devout Witness I can have Intrepid Hero, which efficiently destroys Phyrexian Dreadnoughts, Su-chis, Juggernauts, large Psychatogs. Although it lacks the surprise element of Reprisal it can be reused. However it isn’t as useful as Devout Witness and it was discarded.

Exalted Angel: Finally Exalted Angel, probably the best white creature ever. The 3cc creature that came to replace what were before the slots occupied by Paladin en-Vec and later Phyrexian War Beast is now taken by the angel. The angel can be played turn 3 face down and start attacking turn 4. A successfuly resolved and morphed angel can often swing the game on your favour and turn a losing situation in a winning one. Furthermore if the angel is Mana Drained when you play it face down your opponent gets 0 mana, since a face down spell that’s played costs 0.

However if facing a Psychatog or a Mask deck I found that many times resolving and morphing an angel simply wasn’t enough. I could gain some life, but usually not on time for it to be enough in case the psychatog came for the final blow. And it’s really not very efficient in case you’re facing a Dreadnought either. It’s an excelent card vs any kind of aggro deck, but I decided it wasn’t good enough and at 3cc and in the current environment I’d rather run less 3cc creatures and keep the Witnesses.

Reprisal: White may have the best creature removal spell there is- Swords to Plowshares- but besides that one there’s really nothing more. Or is there? There have been times when this was actually quite a good removal card. It can kill any creature that has more than 4 power. It can kill Su-chi and Juggernaut, Wurm tokens from Madness decks, Phyrexian Dreadnoughts, Masticore (since it doesn’t allow the creature to regenerate) and even Psychatogs. It’s a great card and in case you’re lacking more creature kill besides StP, Reprisal is recommended.

Humble: Another card worth consideration. Instead of Reprisal you can use Humble. Humble provides you with a card that can shut down any creature and make it a 0/1 until end of turn with no abilities. This is quite good since it can be used to kill just about any creature that it can be targeted: Psychatog, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Masticore, etc… You can even destroy Academy Rector and not allowing your opponent to get the enchantment with it. The problem: you have to be blocking or be blocked with one of your creatures for you to kill it (unless you had something else to deal at least a point of damage).

Dust to Dust: I packed 2-3 Dust to Dust in the SB to bring in vs TNT or Stax. What Dust to Dust does is to remove two artifacts from the game meaning that they won’t be brought back by Goblin Welder. In a Mask match Dust to Dust can also be used to remove Illusionary Mask and Phyrexian Dreadnought at once from the game.

Cursed Totem: the totem was once in my WW deck. I used to pack about 3-4 totems maindeck as an answer to Goblin Welders and above all Psychatog, Triskelions, Masticore and Morphling. It's a great card but I ended up removing it since it was a dead weight on more matches than Null Rod can be. Null Rod may not shut down as many decks as totem can, but it can slow down a lot more decks than totem does.

Conclusions
White Weenie has strengths, and probably more than those its credited. The combat abilities of the deck along with other hosers are meant to make the deck as good as possible against several decks and giving them a run for their money.
Although not even close to be as the same level of many popular decks right now it can provide answers for any of them and it has the chance to prevail versus any of them given a solid built and play.
The last sets have been giving always something for White, trying to make it viable again, and with it, White Weenie. We can but only hope that enough good cards come out on the following sets to make it as competitive as it once was.\n\n

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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2003, 02:00:21 pm »

I am writing this article for several reasons. I have the time and I like to write above all.

White Weenie is a rather popular deck. Just about everyone knows the deck but there are many misconceptions about it, mainly about how to play it. The primer is meant for revision purposes and to clarify some old and obsolete ideas about the deck some people still have.

Depending on the response I may or not get from the article I intend on writing one, or possibly two others on a couple more versions I have splashing other colors.

I am aware of the deck's limitations on the current metagame and format. It is also aware of the deck's rather low popularity that I ask for constructive criticism and that bashing or flaming are best left alone.

Questions, comments and positive feedback are welcome.\n\n

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Matt The Great
Guest
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2003, 02:22:58 pm »

I don't know what madness decks you're playing against but the good ones don't use Squee. Against the good decks, Null Rod is actually important, because it shuts down their LEDs. However, it also shuts off your Crypts. So I don't know.]

Under your matchup with Dragon combo, you say Angels get sided out but angels are not in the deck.

Why are MoRs good? You say they're better with Vengeur Masque on the rise but that deck has the big nasty colorless creature as much as any deck.

Otherwise, good work.
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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2003, 02:35:22 pm »

I made reference to Exalted Angels because I used them for so long. My bad... I already corrected that mistake.

Madness is not a popular choice in my playtesting group, but I consider it a possibility and so we decided to test against it, using the Squee-Bazaar version which proved itself already difficult enough.

Mothers are good because they can provide me protection from which my creatures don't have, such as protection from black when facing suicide black or void, or protection from green when facing vengeur masqué or blue if facing an opposing Morphling.

Mothers allow me to push the final points of damage or sometimes have a permanent blocker while you have shadows attacking. With the decreasing popularity of control on the format and even though many popular decks are based on artifact Mother of Runes has been a great addition to deck, much like Weathered Wayfarer is, even though it may not look very good at first.
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Matt The Great
Guest
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2003, 02:37:09 pm »

Ohhhhh, it's for getting past blockers, not for stopping attackers. My bad!
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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2003, 02:59:22 pm »

Quote
Quote Mothers allow me to push the final points of damage or sometimes Mothers allow me to push the final points of damage or sometimes have a permanent blocker

Your bad indeed... you seem to have missed something.
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Diablos8
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2003, 03:01:57 pm »

I noticed that True Believers are coming in for a majority of the matchups. I'm not sure if it was mentioned, since I didn't read the entire article, but wouldn't it just be better if it was maindecked?
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Nova
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2003, 03:18:57 pm »

Quote
Quote I used to play three [devout witness] but as TNT started to appear less I dropped down to three.

  Just a little typo it looks like.  Loved the article, though!\n\n

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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2003, 06:14:57 pm »

I packed True Believers in the SB for the same reason I'm not packing White Knights maindeck. It's a metagame decision. Where I use to play I find mostly Sligh, Mask and artifact decks and psychatog (fortunetely) rarely happens to appear.

If you know you're going to find more control and combo then True Believers maindeck would make more sense.
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Bastian
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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2003, 08:36:16 am »

EDIT: the following were added to the article:

-Changed the title. There is already a White Weenie primer and having an article with that name would be too vague. Now it's more precise about what I'm writing.

-Which spells are on the deck (and why).

-Entries for Cursed Totem and Humble on the Alternate Deck and Sideboard Options.

I have reviewed what I've written and it all seems fine. Since no one else has replied so far I think it's time to send it to where it's meant to go. Thanks for the help everyone.\n\n

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Ferrismonk
Guest
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2003, 07:25:08 am »

I just have a quick question,  I've seen you mention how the Cursed Totem is good in a lot of matchups, but null rod is essentially better.  I happen to agree with this statment, but have you ever tried using Glittering Cat and Glittering Lion with the totem?  I know that used to be a good WW trick, but none of your threads mentioned it.

Also, I've been messing around with the WW/r/u version posted in the other Vintage column and got 2nd place in a local tourney with a close rendition of it.  Since this is a thread for mono-colored, I won't go into it, but I just wanted you to know the the multi-colored WW decks are competitive.

-Travis-
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Bastian
Guest
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2003, 07:41:25 am »

As a matter of fact I had once used Glittering creatures in a WW deck. They had an excelent resistance vs Masticore pinging and I thought they would be good vs other threats, like Morphling as well.

I had only forgotten one thing, my opponents could just block and pay to disable the creatures invulnerability and thus kill them. It's a good combo, but having to play a two card combo to have creatures that otherwise are nothing better than near vanilla 1/1s and 2/2s is a bad deal.

But as I said I did test them. The deck and reference about it can be found on my White Weenie primer on the primers section.

Glittering White Weenie

3 Order of Leitbur
3 Order of the White Shield
4 Savannah Lions
4 Soltari Monk
4 Soltari Priest
4 Glittering Lynx
3 Glittering Lion

1 Aura Fracture
1 Enlightened Tutor
4 Land Tax
3 Seal of Cleansing

3 Cursed Totem
3 Null Rod
1 Zuran Orb

The most unorthodox choice is to use cards like Zuran Orb and Cursed Totem with Null Rod. At the time I thought that like this I could get the right card vs combo/control with Rod or vs aggro with Totem. Of course this makes too many dead cards in the deck and the creatures, as I said, proved to be worse than I thought.

I'm aware of the possibility of multicolored WW being viable. When I get the time I should get to write one or more times about the different splashes of multicolored WW.

Out of curiosity, what did have to fight against and how many people were in that tourney? (congrats on getting top 2)\n\n

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Ferrismonk
Guest
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2003, 05:05:34 pm »

It was only a small tourney, we had 12 I think.  I played against the following:
 
Round 1 - Suicide black (Smashed him)
Round 2 - Random blue creature deck (Smashed him)
Round 3 - GR Stompy with T1 hosers (Smashed him)
Round 4 - UB Mask (Lost this one, but after dealing with 1st turn mask, dreadnaught both games.  I was packing more artifact disruption than artifact kill.  That has since been changed and I feel better about the matchup.

Top 4
Round 1 - Sligh (I squeaked this one by.  I'm fast, but he's a bit faster.  I misplayed a couple turns (should have cast lions instead of pup first turn, etc.) that almost cost me games.  But I did win one of the games by bouncing back a chain lightning, he didn't see it a mile away.  

Round 2 - UW Phid (I lost this one.  He had Exalted Angel with counter backup and Meddling Mage.  I had a whole bunch of solutions to the angel, but he always countered them.  This could have been better I think if I used my mages a bit better.

It was a good tourney, nobody could deal with my VAST amounts of removal and my undercosted weenies.

-Travis-
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