Dragon Primer II

[Dante]

Quote (dicemanX @ Oct. 29 2003,10:05)The Bazaar-Dragon version of the deck is already built to handle control - there is no need to bulk up on additional disruption apart from 4x Xantid Swarm in the SB. What I think CH was referring to was the MD inclusion of Defense Grids in addition to Duress and Cabal Therapy in his build. This is his metagame call as he faces more control decks in his area.

I would not put any counterspells or Therapies in the SB. Either run the Therapies MD, or don't bother with them at all. Getting UU for a counterspell is too difficult, but if you have full power, then Mana Leak is a very decent option. Even so, don't bother with reactive disruption in the SB against control. That plan never works, as you'll never be able to outcounter them with such a  small manabase. Instead, the SB should feature *powerful* proactive disruption rather than the relatively weaker 1-for-1 cards like counters or Duress/Therapy. Xantids are the best option if you can splash green, otherwise you can give Defense Grid a try. If you look at the SB of the Bazaar build in the primer, all I include for the control match-up are 4 Xantids. This is sufficient. I would also consider siding in Verdants against control, and Crypts for Hulk specifically.

About the Symbiotic Wurm: In my opinion, there is no room in the SB for such luxuries. I'd stick to the superior Verdant over the Wurm, and wouldn't put in any more fat in the SB beyond 4xVerdants. The Wurm pales in comparison to a Verdant vs Tangle Wire or Smokestack/Keg combo in wMUD, while the Wurm+Therapy play vs control is really not significant enough to matter.

Edit: I've updated the primer to include the 2 Animate trick to draw the game when in trouble (with multiple creatures in grave).

since this part of the primer has the card selection, in the Mono-black build, what about 2-3 Zombie Infestation??  It's another way to drop creatures in graveyard (8 sometimes isn't enough) that can come out turn 1-2 and with Squee's can be a recurring threat every turn.  It also gives a win condition that does NOT depend on creatures in graveyard, so hate like Purge or Crypt can be avoided.

I've tested a couple in a build similar to the one posted on the 1st page (mono-black) and with all the disruption, I often found a discard outlet lacking, so 2-3 zombie infestations hit the spot.

Bill

[Desert Fox]

Quote (Desert Fox @ Oct. 28 2003,16:47)First off, great primer and insight into Dragon, Diceman.

However, given the rising costs of Bazaar of Baghdad (I'm seeing them run for around $60 each on eBay right now), I'm not sure how budget the budget build is anymore.

I guess what I'm asking is if it's possible to play unpowered Dragon without Bazaar of Baghdad, and if so, what would you (read: anyone) play?

Would including more ways to get the Dragon into the graveyard work? How about something that allows you to dig deeper in the deck as well, like Read the Runes (which I know is used in some other builds)?

Since it wasn't answered before, I'd like to quote my own post and ask again. Some advice would be much appreciated given the impact of the B&R list!

Also, I want to note I play in a relatively unpowered metagame, so I still think budget Dragon without Bazaars can be effective (although I do have one Bazaar laying around somewhere).\n\n

[Ric_Flair]

First, let me say that I am truly impressed.  This is a very comprehensive and well organized primer.  The choices that you made that are different from the archetypal Dragon deck are well explained.  You have a very good grasp on how the deck works.  

My only possible criticism, which is a small one, pertains to this quote:

Quote Combo decks typically have three types of cards: combo pieces, search and/or card draw, and disruption.

I believe that this statement is 2/3 true.  I think that combo decks CAN run disruption, but more commonly run protection spells.  High Tide, Trix, and even the new incarnations of Dragon have run countermagic.  Furthermore even Duress is used as a proactive counterspell in most combo decks, a distinctly different role for the spell than its disruptive use in Sui, for example.  Look at it this way, when one Duresses a card when playing Sui, the chosen card and its purpose is often vastly different from the chosen card when playing combo.  Thus, the elements that you label disruption, I believe are more appropriately labeled "protection."  It is a small point, but I think it is important.

[dicemanX]

Again, thanks for the kind words.

@Dante

Quote since this part of the primer has the card selection, in the Mono-black build, what about 2-3 Zombie Infestation??  It's another way to drop creatures in graveyard (8 sometimes isn't enough) that can come out turn 1-2 and with Squee's can be a recurring threat every turn.

There is no reason why ZI can't be included in the primer. I generally have avoided listing cards that have a goal outside of the combo. Verdants were an exception because they are almost game over when animated against a number of decks, so they still have the "combo feel" to them. ZI is much slower and hardly game ending, and can also be quite dependent on multiple Squees,which is not a good thing. However, it might be difficult to find enough good discard outlets, making ZI a possibility, especially in mono-B. ZI does have some competition though: Jalum Tome and Last Rites, and perhaps even Undead Gladiator. All of these cards, including ZI, are difficult to compare because they each have a unique purpose: Tome and Gladiator are win conditions for the Dragon combo, Rites is a potentially powerful discard spell, and ZI is an alternate kill card.

I will still add it as a possibility for mono-B budget players.

@Desert Fox

Quote I guess what I'm asking is if it's possible to play unpowered Dragon without Bazaar of Baghdad, and if so, what would you (read: anyone) play?

Would including more ways to get the Dragon into the graveyard work? How about something that allows you to dig deeper in the deck as well, like Read the Runes (which I know is used in some other builds)?

I was waiting for Crater Hellion to supply me with a working Bazaar-free T1 Dragon deck. I might just borrow an example build from the newbie forum. Here was one of my suggestions:

Budget WGD (initial build by Morphon, with suggestions by DicemanX)

4x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Ambassador Laquatus
3x Verdant Force

4x Animate Dead
4x Necromancy

3x Buried Alive
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Entomb
4x Jalum Tome
2x Scrying Glass

4x Duress
4x Last Rites

4x Dark Ritual
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
14x Swamp
3x Ancient Tomb
1x City of Traitors

SB

4x Defense Grid
4x Powder Keg
3x Tormod's Crypt
4x Null Rod

Morphon has since altered his build. You can find the relevant thread here. I also included some more advice there about the directions that budget-budget-Dragon can take, but I doubt there is one optimal build. I'll probably c/p that advice into the primer.


@Ric_Flair

Quote I think that combo decks CAN run disruption, but more commonly run protection spells.

Protection spells are in fact disruption spells, although I can see that the term "disruption" might conjure up the wrong interpretations. I will define "disruption" in the primer to remove ambiguity. "Protection" is a good term too, but disruption is the more commonly used and understood term.


Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys, it's appreciated!

EDIT: Primer updated. PTW's T1.5 deck list is there now. I will make more comments on it, or perhaps change the MD after we get some more playtesting/tournament data on this very new deck.\n\n

[Desert Fox]

Thanks for the help, Diceman! Muchly appreciated.