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Author Topic: Tournament in Toronto  (Read 7638 times)
dicemanX
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« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2002, 01:16:32 am »

Quote
Quote I won against such a "formidable" combo deck exposes the inherent weakness in playing combo: you're not always going to get a god draw and go off right away. If you don't, you're most probably in shit.

I must say though, that Bargain deck you played seems way too reliant on good draws/topdecks. It also runs pinpoint discard only, so it's more vulnerable to top-decking by opponent (like your Aura Fracture, although I'm not sure I understand why it's so good against Bargain?).

I wouldn't say U/W is sub-optimal in T1...it's white component is very strong at handling aggro (especially after SB), and it's better in contending with combo decks than mono-U. The deck was capable of winning against the field - it's only disadvantage (albeit very slight) would probably be vs mono-U due to some dead cards and being outnumbered in the Morphling department...

I myself piloted the Dragon deck, and didn't get to face a single aggro deck. First round I played said U/W deck (probably my worst match-up), and managed to get my Grids out early games 1 and 2. Game 1 I went off no problem, game 2 I had to go for a tie (Animate on Worldgorger without kill) as I was getting beat down by a factory and had lost 3 straight Mana Crypt coin flips to put me at very low life . Game 3 was not kind to me, as Library of Alexandria came down first turn followed by a third turn Aura Fracture. I was forced to wait for Wish (for Abeyance), making a ridiculous error along the way (seemed inconsequential in the end), but by that time I couldn't quite bust through the wall of counters.
Match ends in a tie.

Second match I face Gro, a little less fearsome than the U/W deck but scary nontheless with it's massive amount of free-counters. First game goes according to plan - I set up and whittle his hand away by forcing him to counter my threats + disruption, until he is down to one business spell in hand and I have a Mox and Animate in hand with Gorger and Caravan in the graveyard, and two mana on the table. I play animate WITHOUT playing the Mox (old habit of sandbagging artifact mana), and he has a Daze  It's all good as I draw into a win soon thereafter, although I dodged a bullet there...

Second game I get a quick Grid, and I have a Gorger in the graveyard and animate in hand but no win condition or disruption. I settle for the draw when my opponent is tapped out, fearing his free counters after he untaps.

Third game was a bit ridiculous. I start off slowly after being forced to mulligan to five cards, but my opponent has a bit of trouble after keeping a Mox Sapphire/Ancestral hand with no other source of mana (and not finding any lands after Recalling). I build my hand, resolve a Grid, get Dragon and Caravan into the graveyard, while my opponent finds mana after much cantripping and drawing off an early Ophidian. He gets himself to 6 mana JUST before I'm about to go off, which is absolutely crucial...on my turn, I Animate with Pyroblast back-up, but he has the double FoW, and is able to pay for the Grid with 6 mana . Next turn I try Animate again, and it's met with another FoW . He dodged a BIG one that game. I'm out of gas at that point, and get locked up by B2B followed by a Tormod's Crypt. Match ends in a tie.

Third match I obliterate a Gay Fish deck. I win on the 2nd and 4th turns (after slow playing it to ensure counter back-up), with FoW protection both times. This is not an easy match-up actually, since my opponent was running FoWs and Mis-D main and had 4 Rootwater Thiefs.

Fourth match was that dreaded Dragon vs Rector-Bargain match-up. I'm 1-0-2 at this point so I must win to make top 8. No problem, I'm with the much faster and more consistent deck.

Game 1: typical 2nd turn kill. I even FoW his Duress on his turn, and go off on the second turn. Game 2, I cut his deck into an unbelievable draw: 4 Mox + Land + Bargain. He top-decks ritual second turn and that's all she wrote. Who draws like that? Third game is an absolute nightmare. My starting hand: Lands, Crypt, Buried Alive, 2x Dance of the Dead. This is a second turn kill, even if he duresses me. I play land, Crypt, Buried Alive for Gorger/Caravan, and say go. My opponent whips out: Lotus, 2x Moxes, Land, whiffs with Cabal Therapy (naming FoW I think), but then drops his Academy Rector and sacs it to therapy to nail BOTH my dances, and get his bargain for the win. Who does that??? That's like losing a four King hand in poker to 4 Aces. Man, that really sucked . I own this match-up, but it was not to be today...

So I finish out of the top-8, but I'm still happy with the deck's performance. It was holding its own vs the three decks that packed lots of counters, and would have won instead of drawing if I had a bit of fortune come my way in both game 2s (by drawing the win condition - there are 10 in the deck, + 3 tutors). I think if Dragon can hold its own vs control decks like this, its going to be quite a major force in T1 if it can survive the hate cards. It would have been nice to get some byes against the aggro decks, but it was not to be. And the fourth match was completely ridiculous. Who draws like that? Ah, live by the sword...
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2002, 02:36:47 am »

Quote
Quote I must say though, that Bargain deck you played seems way too reliant on good draws/topdecks. It also runs pinpoint discard only, so it's more vulnerable to top-decking by opponent (like your Aura Fracture, although I'm not sure I understand why it's so good against Bargain?).

I completely agree about the Bargain deck. Sure, if it gets a killer hand, like it did against you, its over. If not, it is going to take until turn 3 or 4 to go off and will have to go through the counter wall to win. Aura Fracture proved to be extremely troublesome for Bargain because after a few factory beatings, the Bargain became ineffective. My opponent did not have enough life to draw into his kill cards, and with fracture on the table, I was only giving him one turn to go off before the Bargain was destroyed. Furthermore, there was no hope of the bloom ever seeing more than one main phase of play, so the fracture eliminated the possibility of putting the combo together piece by piece.

Quote
Quote Fourth match was that dreaded Dragon vs Rector-Bargain match-up. I'm 1-0-2 at this point so I must win to make top 8. No problem, I'm with the much faster and more consistent deck.

Now I've seen some broken draws, but two get two in a row like that was rather ridiculous. I was hoping you'd win that matchup as there's nothing worse than losing to a cocky opponent.

Quote
Quote So I finish out of the top-8, but I'm still happy with the deck's performance.

I wouldn't even consider giving up on the deck, despite the poor result. One more aggro matchup would have meant the top 8, and I doubt you'll play against Rector/Bargain and see consecutive draws of that potency again. I mean, you crushed him handily in testing after the match was over.
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bebe
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« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2002, 01:15:11 pm »

I think I left to early. I missed all the fun. It was Chris playing my Fish deck ( curious Fish not Gay Fish) that you beat. He had a Misdirection and FoW to stop you but had never played a MisD before ( he admitted he comletely blew both games) and could have dropped a first turn Thief but never thought you were playing combo. Whatever, I liked your deck and you are a class player. Come to the next one ...

OCT 13 - Hairy T's Big Type 1 Tournament... Who's coming?
We need to get prizes.

I will tell you now that I will be playing a Stacker deck with three Tornod's and two Obstinate Familiars sideboarded...
Just kidding... I'll play Toronto Stompy...
I never saw the Sui deck...
Who played that? Great metagame deck for the field although Land Grant Sligh is also good and I got smoked ( first losing record I ever posted...  

BTW, I asked Leon to post top four deck lists. Maybe he'll get around to it if we all bug him.
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chad
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« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2002, 11:34:56 pm »

Hi, I'm the guy who played Grow on Sunday so I thought I'd throw up a quick report.  I was going to play Emerald Alice but after a few playtest games I wanted to take out a couple mana sources and add Ophidians.  That pretty much left me with Pat Chapin's version of Grow so I just used that.  However, I noticed I was getting reemed by Suicide and other random aggro decks (like my brother's OBC birds deck).  So I killed Chapin's
whole  wish SB idea and went with a transformational one.  Here's what I ended up with:

4 Dryad
4 Ophidian
1 Morphling (for an Opt)

4 FoW
4 MisD
2 Foil (a lot better than I thought)
2 Daze
1 Disrupt
1 Divert

4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Merchant Scroll
1 Ancestral Recall

2 Powder Keg (1 Regrowth, 1 Cunning Wish)

4 Land Grant
4 Tropical Island
4 Island
6 Mana Artifact (Chapin's list had no Jet, I trust him)
1 LoA

Hmm, that seems to be 59... if I come up with what #60 was by the end of this I'll let you know.

SB:
4 Oath
2 Blessing
1 Weaver
1 Feeder
3 Back to Basics
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Fact or Fiction (I thought it would be too slow against aggro)
1 Timetwister
1 Powder Keg

So I bought the two Daze that I needed to fill out the decklist and I was off.  I pulled the Elvish Ranger (pr0n) and bebe pulled a Disintigrate so we set off to round 1.  I'm only going to talk about the major happenings of each game as that's all I remember.

Round 1: Paul (bebe) playing Land Grant Sligh.
He was also running Dryads which I thought was very cool.  We play every tournament and all our games are always very interesting and fun, as well as close.
Game 1: He just rolls over me in about 3 minutes.
Game 2: I drop Oath turn 2 which catches him Hull Breachless and with a creature on the table.  I win about 45 mins later as he has a rather large Dryad out that makes me afraid so I played it safe.  I eventually find a Keg and fly over with a Morphling.
Game 3: This game never really starts as we run out of time and go into extra turns very early on.  Bebe has a creature out and I have an Oathed up Weaver.  We won't finish in 5 turns so Bebe concedes to me.  This was extremely nice of him, he said he had all the cards he needed so he wasn't too worried about the prize and he just came to play.  Like usual we had some very good games.
2-1, 1-0

Round 2: Peter playing Dragon.
Check out his above report.  Let's just say that it takes a lot of will power to keep 6 mana open with this deck.
1-1-1, 1-0-1

Round 3: Richard (Shock Wave?) playing UW control.  He plays maindeck Moat and StP which are very disagreeable to me.
Game 1: I blow my hand in the first couple turns with pitch counters and for some reason this doesn't net me an Ophidian or Dryad.  He's been hitting me with a Mishra then drops Morph.
Game 2 & 3: These games have blurred together in my mind so I'll just list events I remember from either of these games:
- I lock him out both games with BtB.  Game 2 he sided out his Aura Fracture, game 3 he sided them back in but by the time he found it, the game was as good as over and I just let it hit.  He had out at most 1 plain, 1 island and a Sol Ring.
- I cast a Timetwister while I'm holding 6 cards and he's holding 5.  I'm either a bad player or I was holding 3 Land Grant and an Island.
- I "lose" a counter-war letting him get a second Keg into play knowing that he has to blow his first Keg at 2 in order to live.  I also know that he doesn't know he'll lose both his Kegs.
- Watching him shrink to about 3 inches tall after pointing this out Smile.  We both agreed after that this cost him whatever game this was.
- Him blocking my two Ophidians with 2 Mishras and a Sol Ring while under BtB over and over and over.  These were his only two mana sources so he was loathe to pump them to take out a Phid.
- Him at 6 life and me with a 4/4 Dryad out.  I topdecked a Mox Ruby for the win.
- I may have tried to throw the game away by Foil'ing the Ruby then MisD'ing the Foil, emptying my hand and pumping the Dryad to 6/6.  He had a Plains untapped.  He also had cards in his hand.  None of aforementioned cards were StP.
Those last two games were very close and tense, well played on both sides I think except for that one little mistake with the Keg on Shock Wave's part which turned the game in my favour.
2-1, 2-0-1

Somewhere around here I convinced Lam that I was playing Oath with a Grow SB.

Round 4: Jon playing UGW zoo'ish type thing.  Jon was playing what I believe was a type 2 deck with the 12 appropriate duals topped with a smattering of random restricted cards like Sol Ring and Stroke.
Game 1: I made a pretty bad mistake here because I wasn't familiar with my deck at all.  He had two Call tokens out and a Mongrel with one card in hand and I had a 8/8 Dryad.  He was at 7 life.  My mistake was attacking, he chumped with everything and pitched his last card to the Mongrel.  This left him with a 3/3 elephant, one more to flash back next turn, and me with a 1/3 Ophidian.  Usually a 3 for 1 trade is a good thing, but the only way I can deal with creatures is by giant Dryads and 2 Kegs (one was in my graveyard).  I dug for the last Keg, found it, cleared the board of elephants and went in with Phid.
In the middle of game 1 and 2 Jon turned and asked his friend, who had been watching, for SB help.  I figured Jon was new to tourney magic as he played out his cards before asking about mulligans and had to read most of my cards, etc, etc.  I figured he didn't know that asking other people for SB help was a big no-no, so I let it go.
Game 2: I didn't side in the Oath engine, so I kept creatures off the table with counters and Kegs and killed with a big Dryad while locking him out with BtB.
We played a fun game after this and he just rolled over me with elephants and dogs and bears.
2-0, 3-0-1
Three of us are 3-0-1, myself, Lam's friend Rob who is at his first type 1 tournament and is fairly new to magic, piloting the only SuiBlack deck, and the man himself, undefeated in games and matches, Lam... cut to top 8.

Arend playing Lam.dec.. uh, I mean mono-U.  Arend is running BtB main over Mishras.
Game 1:  We both drop our hands to pitch counters early game and both of us only have lands out.  I topdeck a Lotus and drop Morph.
Game 2: This game goes like it should against mono-U.  I drop a Dryad, out pitch-counter to protect it and ride it to victory.  He goes: 20, 19, 18, 16, 12, 8, 0.
Phew, Arend's only loss up to that point was to Lam.

Top 4: Lam playing Lam.dec.
Game 1: I win the die roll and go land, Mox, Lotus, Dryad, sac Lotus, brainstorm (2/2) then Time Walk (3/3).  Untap, Sleight of Hand (4/4) and attack.  Eventually Lam kills it with a Keg but not before he's down to 3 life.  I drop the other Dryad I'd been holding, attack once putting him at 2 life then next turn Brainstorm for the win.  By the way, Time Walk was card #60.
Game 2: Lam plays Island and says go.  I play Tropical and Sleight of Hand, he Disrupts it, I Daze back, he says okay, Sleight is good.  Then says he forgot to draw off his Disrupt and does so.  I say that he doesn't draw as it was countered and he realizes his mistake.  I told him that I thought that drawing an extra card results in a game loss (this has been told to me a number of times, including a level 3 judge at Nationals who said that drawing extra cards is a game loss at any rule enforcement level, even casual REL1 used for friday night magic.)  So we call Leon over and deliberate for a while.  Leon goes and checks something, comes back and says he agrees with me, that this should be a game loss.  Not exactly the way I wanted to win but I try to follow the rules strictly and would expect a game loss if the roles were reversed and I drew the extra card.  I talked with Lam after and he said no hard feelings and nothing personal, which was very cool of him, and I felt the same way.  I think Lam is a good guy and a very good magic player.  He didn't win four in a row because he was lucky, no matter what anyone else says.  So I finally ended Lam's reign of terror*.
*not really.
2-0, 4-0-1

Anti-climax.

Finals against Rob playing SuiBlack.
Game 1: He rolls over me like my testing showed he should.
Game 2: I drop Oath second turn while he had two creatures out.  About 30 minutes later I won with a Morphling with Lam pleeding for Rob to concede the whole time.  Rob had never seen Oath before and wanted to see exactly how a Spike Feeder was going to kill him, I don't blame him, I wouldn't buy it the first time either.
Game 3:  For double the marbles.
Him - Wasteland
Me - Tropical Island, wasted, I Sleight of Hand into another Tropical.
Him - Wasteland
Me - Tropical Island, wasted, Land Grant for another Tropical.
Him - Wasteland
Me - Tropical Island, wasted, Brainstorm into...... no land.
Him - Swamp, Ritual, I FoW'd the Ritual.
Me - Draw go.
Him - Swamp, Ritual, Negator.
Game over...
I needed one of those lands to be basic, or have a basic forest in my deck to Land Grant for so I could have played the Oath off a Mox.  He totally wrecked me that game, Duressing my Oath and Sinkholing my last land after the game ended.. I mean after he did the swamp-ritual-negator combo.
1-2, 4-1-1

So the deck did pretty well, my only change would be to add a basic Forest for the Library of Alexandria which was mostly useless.  With the $100 in trade I got for second prize I nabbed the beat up Timetwister.  All in all a good day.  Thanks again to Leon for hosting another great tournament and everyone else for setting it up and for my brother for not having a good deck to play and lending me his power.

chad
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Razor
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« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2002, 12:44:04 am »

DicemanX:
Quote
Quote I myself piloted the Dragon deck, and didn't get to face a single aggro deck....Third match I obliterate a Gay Fish deck. I win on the 2nd and 4th turns (after slow playing it to ensure counter back-up), with FoW protection both times. This is not an easy match-up actually, since my opponent was running FoWs and Mis-D main and had 4 Rootwater Thiefs.
 Peter, I guess since you won so fast, you didn't get to see how Aggro Curious Fish really is.  *sigh*  Fish gets so little respect.

We all particularly enjoyed your beta.dec.  I was amazed to see two combo decks - both vulnerable to Plowshares.

I'll invite Phil (Bargain.dec) to this thread and see if he'll post.

Shock Wave, your deck is really effective.  I can't wait to see it after you tweak it again.  Blue-White doesn't get the respect it deserves nowadays, either.

Chad, great report as always.  Glad to see you and your brother come out to Hairy's again.

Paul, that was a really honourable match concession to Chad.  Do you think 'Sly-Dryad' is a viable deck?

My Enforcer deck got owned by Fish, Disks, counterspells and Kegs.

Losing, I relearned a lesson about Blue-based-decks.  I am pretty sure if Enforcer resolves a quick Null Rod against (to stop mass-destruction artifacts) G-W can deliver winning beatdown.  City of Solitude is nice, too.  In concert with Null Rod, it means game for mono-Blue.
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bebe
Guest
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2002, 09:20:46 am »

Sligh/Dryad is a great deck but I had really bad draws a few times. Reckless Charge won me two games, BTW.
Great report by Chad.
I think it time we all stopped lambasting Lam and give him credit for winning three tournaments in a row. He is a gentleman and always a pleasure to lose against
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xrobx
Guest
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2002, 11:15:08 am »

 He really did exist to cease...  

For my first tourny I've ever played, let me tell you first off, the competition was great!  So many games were sooo close and I'd hafta say that anyone out there deserved to win it as much, if not more, than I did.  I saw so many great decks, and how the WG dragon deck is actually a very good viable deck, (I previously didn't see how it could be useful in a field of 1st turn bargain's, and soon learned, 1st turn oath decks).  Unfortunatly, I didn't get to play the WG deck (maybe this was a good thing?) but I did end up facing 2 combo decks - the bargain/bloom and, in the finals, the Oath deck.  I would have to say I had a good pull against the bargain deck, and basically that's what won me the games...which is pretty much how it is; usually if you give your opponent 4-5 turns, and they're still living/plentiful in resources, you lose.  Super fun deck to play though (sui); it makes you feel so evil wastelanding, sinkholing, and after they think you're outa gas, strip mining their last land away.  I'd hafta give credit though to Chad(?), who I played in the finals, for not going insane with my sick 3rd game draw.  I probably would have lost that one because (as i remember?) he had the oath sitting in his hand, and lands kept coming.  

I think the scariest thing I saw was a Mis.D or a Morphling.  You would not believe how annoying it is when you first turn ritual durress (gets countered- FoW) hymn (gets mis.D'd) and you're left with 1 bloody card! hehe...or even just a Mis.D'd sinkhole can mean game over...on to the morphling - when he's out, you're dead.  It's next to impossible for me to deal with him, even edicts don't get in (counters).  I remember one game, I think the second last, I played a W/B deck, and he cast a Morphling on his turn, leaving about 3 - 4 lands open.  At the end of his turn, I wasteland, edict (gets countered) and edict again to get rid of the stupid morphling.  Mind you, running 3 mainboard edicts, that is ALOT of gas to kill 1 of 4 death machines.  But anyways, overall, it was a fun tournament to play.  I will probably see most of you again on the 13th of October, hopefully with a deck that will put up a fight.  Cheers.

He exists to cease.
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specialk
Guest
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2002, 09:38:14 pm »

I'll be attending the next one that was a great tournament and the funniest thing is when leon made us start over because we started early and bargain combo almost went off or so he says.  Then when we started properly B2B went out early and won the game 2 was al him then B2B owned him in the third and I mana drain a mox jet and he was confused or something.
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dicemanX
Guest
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2002, 05:33:39 pm »

Congrats xrobx for your fine tournament win! Suicide is always a great choice and you always have a chance to go all the way, particularly if the Sligh numbers are down.


@bebe:
Quote
I think I left to early. I missed all the fun. It was Chris playing my Fish deck ( curious Fish not Gay Fish) that you beat. He had a Misdirection and FoW to stop you but had never played a MisD before ( he admitted he comletely blew both games) and could have dropped a first turn Thief but never thought you were playing combo. Whatever, I liked your deck and you are a class player. Come to the next one ...

Thank you for the compliment! I did end up playing around possible counters by having FoW back-up in both games, and that Thief did hit turn 2 in game 2. It hit twice and Chris ended up going after some combo pieces, but unfortunately (for him) I have 7-10 of each piece in the deck so you wouldn't be able to stop it so easily. He should have gone after my ultimate win condition (the Cunning Wishes - there are only three), but in the end he only ended up hitting me twice, not enough to prevent me from pulling it out...

I will try to come to all of the Hairy T tournaments from here on in - they are attended by a really great bunch of people and I really enjoyed the competition.
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PhOeNiX
Guest
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2002, 09:58:57 am »

Actually Peter, I did see you beatdown with the Worldergorger Dragon once!
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