Tournament Report: Saturday, July 27th

[CrazyCarl]

Well, today was another Fat Cat type 1.  I decided to add a Skeletal Scrying to my sideboard to wish for.

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Misdirection
1 Counterspell
2 Morphling
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Cunning Wish
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 The Abyss
1 Mind Twist
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Balance
1 Dismantling Blow

1 Regrowth
1 Sylvan Library

1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Fire/Ice

1 Zuran Orb
1 Jayamdae Tome

1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Sol Ring
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Underground Sea
4 City of Brass

SB:
4 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dwarven Miner
1 Shattering Pulse
2 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Circle of Protection: Black
1 Allay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Misdirection

10 People entered the tournament which ment first prize was $20

ROUND 1: Rob playing Sligh
Game1: Rob gets a turn 1 Cadet, followed by a burn spell and a scroll.  I really don't have much.  I get out some Moxes and a Jayamdae Tome, but he gets a Gorilla Shaman through.  He eats my "lands" and smashes me.  He's able to burn me out pretty easily.

I sided in 2 Circle:Red, so maybe this game'll be easier for me.

Game 2: I get out an early Circle:Red followed by a Zuran Orb.  I sit there for a looooooong time because I had pitched one of my Morphlings, and the other had died due to getting burned up.  So, when I have 3 cards left, I Vampiric for Regrowth, getting back my Mind Twist.  I Twist his hand, and he unloads some burn which I prevent.  Next turn I Stroke him for 20, and he only had 17 card :B. I DECKED SLIGH  

No sideboard changes.

Game 3: Rob drops three creatures in 2 turns().  I procede to draw THREE Cities of Brass and counters whilst he smashes away.  My circles were 2 cards down when I lost, but I only had one non-City land, so they would have made no differance.

Round 2: Glen playing U/B control(unpowered).
He seemed like a nice enough guy, but his deck wasn't very well thought out(2 counterspells, Portent, Agonizing Memories...)  He's going to be showing up to the Deck Clinics some of the local players and I are going to put on, so maybe he'll improve.

Game 1: He puts on no pressure, so I pretty much go nuts and end up YawgWilling him out of the game.

I don't sideboard vs little kids; It makes me feel bad:dead:

Game 2: I take a ton of pain from my Cities and Sylvan, but I'm able to win as he only casts one spell that matters(a Fear Hyppie without flying) but I fire it away, drop Morphling and win in a few turns.

Round 3: Jason playing R/G/W Pandemonium/Aluren/Gating Creatures combo.- His deck was pretty good, it could go off pretty fast(he's almost fully powered), but it just isn't consistant enough, and doesn't have enough threats to beat a control deck.

Game 1: This game drags on forever as he doesn't draw an Enchantress for a LONNNNNG time(after I countered one early on).   And we know Keeper benefits from the waiting game, so I Cunning Wish for my Allay and demolish his side of the board, countering any Sterling Groves he plays.

No sideboarding.

Game 2: I get out an early Sylvan after Ancestralling turn 2.  I go into Turbo-Allay mode, kill off his enchantments, play Morphling, and kill him just in time to go to the bathroom and get sick(I have no idea how I was sick, but I felt AWFUL).

--Ten Minutes Later--

I still feel horrible, but I begin Round 4 anyways.

Round 4: Ben Playing R/G featuring Mountain Goat.

Game 1: He gets turn 1 Kird Ape, turn 2 Rancor, Mox Monkey.  I don't do much of anything.  Turn 3 he plays TWO MORE RANCORS on his Ape, drops mountain goat, and swings for 9.  I play a Morphling to chump with, but I still lose in short order because I'm unable to find either Balance, Abyss, or a good Tutor(I had a Vamp, but I had no black mana somehow :<) he finishes me with a Barbarian Ring.

I side in a Plow for the Tome.

Game 2: I get turn 1 Library, turn 2 Mox Land(He doesn't eat the mox with his shaman) Turn 3 Abyss.  He can't get out of it and loses.

No changes.

Game 3: I don't get much action in the early turns while he has his amazing Turn 1 Kird Ape, turn 2 Rancor AGAIN(He got it game 2 as well) followed by a bolt to my dome. I get Abyss and play Zuran Orb, BUT he has a Mox Monkey in play, so I lose my ZOrb(I was REALLY out of it, playing when your sick sucks   ).  He doesn't eat my Mox for some reason  .  But, while I kill all of his creatures, I'm at only 2 life and he draws Barbarian Ring to kill me.

I had a good time up until the time I got sick.  I'm starting to lose confidence in the deck, but I'll give it a go tomorrow at the Syracuse tourney(Ill write a report if I can remember anything).

Carl

[Zherbus]

I really hate artifact drawers like tome and scrying glass in keeper. Ask yourself how much better you would have done with a swords and tome swapped from SB to maindeck.

I REALLY think you may have relied on cunning wish a bit too much for critter kill, and the fact of the matter is...keeper cant forget too much about crappy/good aggro.

I mean sure it wants to minimize bad cards against control mirrors, but keeper runs bear minimum critter kill as it is.

I also noted that you run academy. Thumbs up, in the right environment, its abolutely great. There seems to be a lot of moxen hate to run into there, so maybe its time to put the volcanic back in its place?

Anyways, my 2 cents.

[CrazyCarl]

Zherbus: You're right

I hate Tome now.  It's incredible vs control sometimes, but god damn its bad vs. aggro.  A plow is definately going back into the MD.  As for the Academy, I'm still unsure, but it probably will be cut, I think for an Island.  I may also cut the 3rd Tundra for another Island.  I'm going to give it a try tonight(i'm going to do a bit of playtesting).  But having the duals in those slots may be better.

I'd add a Geyser, but with the Skeletal Scrying in the sideboard, it's unneeded IMO.

[Fishhead]

I agree with Zherbus in everything he said (though I'd replace the Tolarian with a 4th Tundra; you really want to cast StP and Moat quickly in this sort of environment.)  

A lot of my Keeper theory is based on the fact that I will face lots of random Aggro and strange combo in a wide open "real life" metagame before I get to the tough decks at the top of the standings.  Your deck is clearly tuned to a control metagame; you almost certainly need to scale it back to deal well with Aggro - its no good to have a 3 card advantage in the mirror if you get cut down by Jackal Pups before the T4.

I've cut Green from my deck which allows me to be more comfortable with less Cities of Brass (less pain!) and to dump Regrowth and Sylvan; since neither are very good in the critical first 4 turns against fast beatings.  I also run 3xImpulse which is very strong in the Aggro matchup where finding Balance or Abyss and enough land *in time* is the key to winning.  

I miss the Sylvan a lot when I face another control deck, but thats really the only change that I feel really hurts there.  And the rest of it more than makes up for that tradeoff by being better in the Aggro matchup.

[Razor]

I support Z's recommendations.

Why does no one seem to ever run Reflecting Pool in Keeper?  It's so tasty when you're running so many duals and Cities.

I find Academy too unreliable a mana source especially when you're expecting Mox Monkies.

I don't like Skeletal Scrying much because the life is paid up front as opposed to on resolution.  Since Tome is a card you really only want to see in a Control mirror, isn't Scrying Glass generally superior?

I really would like to see a copy of Ben's R/G Goat deck.

[Matt The Great]

Because Reflecting Pool is just about strictly worse than another blue dual (fourth Tundra, or a Tropical) unless you have a City of Brass/Undiscovered Paradise out, because nothing requires more than a single off-color mana. It also doesn't interact well with moxen, and leaves you further susceptible to Wasteland.

In short, it does nothing to smooth your mana base over the lands already played, and so it's essentially a City without the pain but only when you already HAVE a City.

[Razor]

Quote (CrazyCarl @ Posted: July 27 2002,17:22) I'm starting to lose confidence in the deck, but I'll give it a go tomorrow at the Syracuse tourney(Ill write a report if I can remember anything).

Carl, Does anyone ever win with "Keeper" anymore?  I have won more games than I've lost to Keeper.  Mind you I've only ever piloted various rogue decks against Keeper piloted by: Mako Satou, Rakso, and Marco Toso.  Even that "Beautiful Mind" Enforcer deck did better than Keeper in SoCal.

Online players' general view that both Keeper and mono-U are the top decks right now is seriously flawed in my humble opinion.

Thanks for posting your report Carl.  I hope you're feeling top-notch today.

[Rakso]

Razor: But you play a nasty Bazaar-Gaea's Blessing-Time Walk with no cards in library combo!

Carl: However did you get the mana for a 20-point Stroke? Whoa.

[CrazyCarl]

Rakso: I had Cop: Red and Zorb,the game went for "a while".

Razor: Thanks, i'm feeling much better ;D

As for the tourney tomorrow, I think i'm gonna play bad combo

Carl

[Morphling]

Quote Carl, Does anyone ever win with "Keeper" anymore?  

The tier one control decks (Keeper, OSE, monoblue) are the best decks IN THEORY, assuming an ideal, hypothetical, balanced metagame.

In practice, they're not "best decks" in the sense that they're always the best choice for any situation. In an all or mostly-random aggro situation like you describe, for example, I would actually go with some kind of high tier two combo, also.

This doesn't mean that the control decks are bad (in fact, they're tier one because they're almost never, strictly speaking, unviable), just that they're not always the ideal metagame call. No deck is.

[Razor]

Quote (Rakso @ Posted on July 28 2002,00:57)Razor: But you play a nasty Bazaar-Gaea's Blessing-Time Walk with no cards in library combo!

Rakso, I was unable to recall what deck I was playing then when I went infinite against your Keeper deck somewhere in fall 2001.  It was Pandeburst/Intuition/Squee/Masticore/Attunement/Bazaar/Replenish/Pandemonium/Saproling Burst Combo thing.  Funny, since Control decks are supposed to own Combo decks.  If I recall though, I forced you to use your freshly-Y.Willed Morphling to chump-block a Saproling due to a City of Solitude or something.

Quote Razor: Thanks, i'm feeling much better ;D

You're welcome Carl.

Seriously though, has anyone even see a Mono-U or Keeper deck win anything serious in the last few months?

Quote (Morphling @ Posted on July 28 2002,05:46)The tier one control decks (Keeper, OSE, monoblue) are the best decks IN THEORY, assuming an ideal, hypothetical, balanced metagame.

In practice, they're not "best decks" in the sense that they're always the best choice for any situation. In an all or mostly-random aggro situation like you describe, for example, I would actually go with some kind of high tier two combo, also.

This doesn't mean that the control decks are bad (in fact, they're tier one because they're almost never, strictly speaking, unviable), just that they're not always the ideal metagame call. No deck is.

I have doubted the widely-accepted so-called Deck Tier Model for awhile now.  I have not seen a Void, Keeper, or Mono-U excel in a tournament in quite some time.

I agree that the Tier 1 and 2 decks are all strong and rarely really suck at a tourney.  However, they rarely even make the top 8 or whatever in Swiss around here or online that I have seen.

Maybe people are playing around the silver bullets these days with cards like: Null Rod, Mox Monkey, Mishra's Factory, Nimble Mongoose, Mystic Enforcer, City of Solitude, etc.  Or, maybe I'm dead wrong.

[Zherbus]

The last two tournaments I played in, I went 6-0 with Keeper.

At Origins, Mono-blue did very well.

Keeper is considered to be the best, but not the best against anything. It just has a way to deal with just about any matchup. This, in theory, is what makes it tier one.

Void? Since when did Void come up? Im the biggest pusher of Nether Void, and *I* say its a high tier 2 at best. It really has no horrible matchups outside of workshop decks.

Remember, Carls version is very experiemental. He is an OSE player by heart, and he keeps trying to tailor his Keeper to his playing style. I have a feeling that if he doesn;t find the glove that fits, he will just go back to running OSE. I mean come on! He wants to run Mishra's, scrying, and Kegs.

As for other keepers...I stand by the perversion of online metagames. For a while, everyone was running 'their keeper' and in general thats all you would see. A lot of player got sick of it and in my opinion, they have all but hated keeper out.

Everyones running keeper hate up the ass now, and now playing keeper in an online metagame is just silly. But you know what?

Keeper in the hands of a good player STILL does well in a field full of hate.

Of course in real life, where you only see maybe 1 or 2 keepers, if that, these online monstrosities wont do as well.

Keeper players are also worsening their decks by worrying about the control mirror. Look at Carl. In retrospect, he wants that critter control back in his maindeck.

Mastering your game against control is a grand achievement, but I find you definetly sacrifice your well-roundedness.

Hell I've been even entertaining the idea of putting more white in keeper for moat or playing something closer to what CF plays with oath maindeck.

[Leshrac]

Quote (Razor @ July 27 2002,20:17)I don't like Skeletal Scrying much because the life is paid up front as opposed to on resolution.

Sorry, but I just had to chime in: It's actually the other way around. You remove cards from your graveyard as part of the cost, and lose life as part of the resolution.

[CrazyCarl]

Quote Remember, Carls version is very experiemental. He is an OSE player by heart, and he keeps trying to tailor his Keeper to his playing style. I have a feeling that if he doesn;t find the glove that fits, he will just go back to running OSE. I mean come on! He wants to run Mishra's, scrying, and Kegs.

So true, so true...  I actually didn't play Keeper in the T1 today.  I played Academy instead(w/o Candleabras. BIG MISTAKE :.  I think the deck is VERY solid.  I won a game vs a control deck with "Good Academy".  I still need to find another foil Impulse... No way i'm running the 4th non-foil .  Style :<.

Anyways, the version I played today used Fastbond/Trade Routes + MoMa(of course) instead of Candleabra(It was the best substitue I could think of).  I did kill someone once with the Fastbond/Routes combo, but I normally killed with MoMa.  I did OK vs control. I ended up losing to a poorly built, but VERY lucky R/U deck running Goblin Vandals isntead of Shamans, but I was very artifact light every time, so he wreaked me with them in the 1st round of the Top 8.  I'm going to give Academy a try for a few weeks.  I've noticed(in like, the 10 games i've played with it) people HATE playing against it.  Some people don't like losing to Keeper, but they HATE playing against Academy, and i'm even pretty fast playing it.  SO, to keep magic "healthy" around here, I may need to restrain myself :<(Sorry this a totaly differant topic ).

But anyways, I think Keeper is a fine deck, I'm just not having fun playing it.  Even with all of the 1 ofs, you do the same thing every single game.  It's just getting old for me.  I may go back to OSE.  I don't think it's as strong as Keeper, but I had ALOT more fun with OSE than I have with Keeper lately.

Carl

[PsychoCid]

I'm very glad to see that the points necessary to stress already have been.  Yes, Keeper is best, in theory, because it is always viable and can take on anything.  Can being the key word, nobody said it would own absolutely everything you run into in random fields.  Mono-blue takes on Keeper and other control nicely, and, tks to kegs and Misdirection, etc., can also ownz0r|ze aggro and combo, respectively.

Most importantly, though, most people hear that Keeper is the best deck without understanding why, assume it's just awesome, and play with it.  A lot of people will say Keeper is difficult to play.  I greatly disagree with this, but I'll admit it's difficult to master or even play well at all.  Keeper takes practice and familiarity with both your deck and theirs.  The player makes the Keeper, the Keeper doesn't make the player.  IE, if you suck, so will your Keeper deck, barring the random fluke that's bound to appear at some point

[kl0wn]

I just need to point out something here...

1) The tournament had 11 participants, not 10.

and

2) Carl, you wanted me to remind you, so I am...

YOU LOST TO A RANCORED MOUNTAIN GOAT!!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

ph34r t3h 604t!!!

MWA HA HA HA HA!!!

MOUNTAIN GOAT 0WNZ J00!!!!