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Author Topic: Report and Result of T1 - 11/09/2002  (Read 1349 times)
leviat
Guest
« on: November 11, 2002, 11:11:55 am »

Sat. 11/09/2002 Type1 Unsanctioned
(P10 Proxy's are allowed)
14 Players

Swiss Results (4 Rounds) - Top 8

# Deck (Win/Lose/Draw)
1st. TnT (3/0/1)
2nd. 4c Keeper (3/0/1)
3rd. TurboLand (3/1/0)
4th. The Hype (3/1/0)
5th. Sui-ish (3/1/0)
6th. Sui (2/2/0)
7th. Mono-Green (2/2/0)
8th. Mono-Black (2/2/0)

Top4
(TnT) vs The Hype
TurboLand vs (4c Keeper)

Top2
((Draw))

Notes:
- I was playing the TnT deck, I'll explain more below.
- CrazyCarl was playing 4c Keeper. He dropped green, added 3 fetchlands, and went to two Wishes. He seemed happy with the results.
- The kid playing Sui-ish doesn't have Sinkholes and seemed to replace them with Unearths to get Negators and Hippies back.

I thought I would list my matches because I think I won games with TnT that I should have lost. I was playing the R/G/u version of TnT. I'm not going to list my deck (unless anyone really wants me to), but I'll outline the items of notice.

- I play two Squees and sideboard Genesis.
- I play two Trikes, one Masticore, and one Karn.
- I play Quirion Ranger, not Mana Birds.
- I replaced Land Grants with Windswept Heaths.
and ...
- I play FOUR Jester's Caps in my sideboard (ph34r combo).

ROUND 1 - TurboLand

I thought he was playing Academy so I started the match off pretty worried. I quickly found out he wasn't playing Academy, but it was still combo.


Game 1: I got a total of two turns. I lose.

SB Out: 1x Shaman, 1x Karn, 2x Trikes, 1x Wonder, 1x Squee, 1x Masticore
SB In: 4x Caps, 2x Emerald Charms, 1x Druid Lyrist

Game 2: I drop a first turn Jug and say "Go". He drops a first turn Horn of Greed and says "Go". Play continues as I drop fatty after fatty and he just keeps dropping Horn of Greed w/o a Fastbond or Exploration. Easy win.

Game 3: He drops a land and says "Go". I drop a first turn Cap and have the mana to activate it. He scoops.

1-0-0

ROUND 2 - Bad Sligh

Game 1: I survival for Trike and go off like a Tommy Gun. Lots of dead Pups.

SB Out: Squee, Gorilla Shaman, Karn
SB In: Genesis, 2x Bottle Gnomes

Game 2: I drop Trike, Rinse, Repeat.

2-0-0

ROUND 3 - Sui

I started off pretty happy because I didn't think I needed to worry about Sui.

Game 1: He rips my hand up pretty back and doesn't leave me with much. I drop a Jug into an Edict and then we spend a couple turns topdecking. He then drops Hippie and then a Nantuko by tapping out. I have the Trike in hand but I'm one mana short. The top-decking gods were good to me and I rip a Mox off the top. I then drop the Trike and eat both the Shade and the Hippie. The beef then starts coming and he shortly concedes.

I got a little worried at this point as it sinks in just how devestating a 1st turn: Ritual + Duress + Hymnn can be.

SB: Nothing, I don't have anything to deal with Mono-Black as I thought the matchup would be in my favor.

Game 2: He rips my hand up pretty bad again, then drops a Hippie on the second turn. Then after a few more Hymns and a still active Hippe, I concede.

Game 3: I don't really remember much except that I had an active Welder and a Trike on the board. He conceded pretty quickly.

3-0-0

ROUND 4 - 4c Keeper (CrazyCarl)

We draw and then played a few unboarded games. He beats me pretty bad every game. I'm not sure if I'm just that bad, Carl is just that good, or TnT is that bad against keeper. Probably a mixture of the first two items I listed.

3-0-1

NOTE TO WORLD: Could someone please teach me how to play TnT against a really good Keeper player? Please?

TOP 4 - The Hype

This was my most feared match up. The Hype has really been ripping it up lately and I had no idea how to play against it with TnT.

Game 1: I drop a quick Jug and a Welder, which both get removed the from the game very promptly. I start dropping more beef and Bryce doesn't get the TaxRack engine going. I win!

I felt very lucky after that match and started to doubt my
original strategy. My plan was to sideboard in the Caps and just thin his deck to nothingness. After much inner debate, I decided that I just got lucky the first match and decided to stick with the plan.

SB Out: 1x Squee, 1x Masticore, 4x Su-Chi
SB In: 4x Cap, 2x Emerald Charms

Game 2: I drop a first turn welder and a second turn cap and started the deck thinning process. This was a very long match so I'll just try to explain what I capped.

Cap 1: 2x Mesa, 1x Humility
Cap 2: 1x Humility, 2x Aura of Silence

At this point I should have been smart and gone for the Scroll Racks, since my win condition at this point was by primarily decking him. My plan was to wait until he started to use a Rack to keep himself from being decked and then use Ancestral for the kill.

Cap 3: (Don't remember)
Cap 4: 3x Rack

Yes, I actually lucked out enough that all three of his Racks were still in the deck by the time I realised that I should have gone for them. W00t!!!

Now at this point he still hasn't conceded and I was starting to get worried as to why. His life was somewhere up in the 30's or 40's due to active Ivory Towers and he mumbled something about Wishing for an enchantment. For some reason I started to fear a Test of Endurance, although I really should have feared another Sacred Mesa. I was scared to use survival as I wanted to ensure that I didn't deck myself out before he did so I decided to risk going for some more Welders so I could start swapping Ivory Towers with Zuran Orbs.

A few turns later, Bryce realises he's been using his Library to draw more cards and finally concedes as the Wish he was waiting to use was just a Jedi mind-trick he used on me. He was just playing the game out in hopes that I would survival a lot and deck myself before him.

After the game Bryce explains that he sideboarded completely wrong as he actually sideboarded OUT all his graveyard hate (4x Tormod's Crypt). Yep, Bryce was smoking something good. Anyways, I move on the finals and happily draw with Carl as I ph34r him and his keeper.


That pretty much covers everything.

EDIT: Fixed some spelling errors and updated some sideboarding that I forgot about.
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Fishhead
Guest
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2002, 03:36:55 pm »

Quote
Quote ROUND 2 - Bad Sligh

SB Out: Squee
SB In: Genesis

Why Genesis in?  Just for fat?  Because he's going to be way too slow to use effectively.  (Unless Bad Sligh is really bad. Wink  I usually keep the second Squee in and bring in Masticore; while sideing out some Su-Chis.  Blocking stuff, getting Su-Chi bolted and still taking 4 sucks.  But Masticore is just game over for Sligh; maybe even better than Trike.  

Quote
Quote I started off pretty happy because I didn't think I needed to worry about Sui.

Generally, the games go pretty much like you described.  Its not a cakewalk, but its not a bad matchup either.  Its surprising how little having your hand ripped up hurts if you just can topdeck a Jug (or a Survival) and start swinging.  MD Null Rod can be an inconvinience.  Lots of Sinkholes and Wastelands are a problem too, but the deck is about half land, so not as much as it might seem.

Quote
Quote Could someone please teach me how to play TnT against a really good Keeper player? Please?

If you fear Keeper, put 3 Blood Moons in the side to go with the ReBs.  

But really, I find it to be a favorable matchup (though me and the Dulmen crew are apparently the only ones on this board who feel that way!)  You have 3.5 different classes of threats; 1) Welders: if this resolves, then countering your Juggies etc becomes a problem because they can just be welded back; and Keeper cant afford to counter every artifact you play. 2) Survival: Game over, Keeper must deal with this immediately or lose.  Get Anger, make your Welders un-summoning sick and start swinging with angry men. 3) Angry men.  In the same way Swamp-Rit-Negator scares Keeper, so does Workshop, Mox, Juggy.  4 Turns to deal or die, while TnT sets up its next wave of threats.  3.5) Wastelands.  Put the pressure on Keeper by destroying their lands.  Good in the Keeper mirror, still good here.  Keep an eye on their colors, you fear White for Balance more than a lot of other things.

But basically, the way I see it; you are going to have 2 or 3 threats to start the game with.  If you start with a Jug they must seriously consider FoW'ing it if they dont have a way to deal in hand.  Ideally, they want to save the FoW for Survival, because Survival is the backbreaker in the matchup, but they dont always have the option.  So, lead with Jug or Welder and try and draw counters to resolve Survival.  Dont expect that Jug to go all the way; Keeper is too flexible a deck to die to one big creature in general, but the point is the pressure; make them dig for answers while you keep posing questions.

With Cunning Wish, Keeper has some really good tricks at their disposal; moreso Ebony Charm than Shattering Pulse.  Remember that a single Welder negates Shattering Pulse.  So does a Trike, which can kill itself (or a Jug) in response.  If they Wish for the Pulse, the Welder goes on the defensive.  Just sit back and threaten to fizzle their Pulse by swapping out the artifact they are aiming at.  But Charm is painful; it can clean out your Squee, Anger and Wonder all in one shot.  

Also, how many Caps did you side in against Keeper?  Keeper has maybe 4 win conditions, so a first turn Cap can be a dangerous threat too.  (Be wary of the Stroke-Cunning Wish interaction if you go this path.  Wink

Anyway, hope this helps.  If you find yourself still losing, you might want to just trade decks with Carl for a couple games and see if reversing the matchup helps you out.  I do this every now and then, just to watch other people play my deck; you never know what you might learn.  (OTOH, you can feel confident that you have the hang of a deck when it hurts to watch someone else play because you see all the errors they are making.  Wink
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leviat
Guest
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2002, 06:00:46 pm »

Thank you very much for the excellent reply. I'm really glad you mentioned attacking the white mana base because that really never occurred to me as well as attempting to counter Shattering Pulse.

Quote
Quote Why Genesis in?  Just for fat?  Because he's going to be way too slow to use effectively.

I guess I figured he would be good to bring back killed Welders, but now that you mention it, he was to slow as I don't think I ever used Genesis once in any of the matches. Taking out a few of the Su-Chi's for Bottle gnomes probably would have been the way to go.

Quote
Quote Also, how many Caps did you side in against Keeper?

Well, all our games were pre-sideboarded but I didn't really consider trying to Cap out Keeper's win conditions. The problem is that I have to bring in at least 3 or 4 Cap's to really make them worth while, and if I do that... what do I take out?

More to the point...

What is a proper sideboarding strategy to use against Keeper?

Every card in TnT is already designed to beat on Keeper. The only cards that are expendable are the Su-Chi's and Jugs, but that's the main driving force in TnT.

I'm almost wondering if I should try to bring in 4 REBs, 4 Caps, and 3 Blood Moons which basically transofrms TNT into a deck that kills Keeper through 1/1's and Cap's. (Using Trikes to kill Morphling once Blood Moon resolves).
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Fishhead
Guest
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2002, 09:33:08 pm »

Quote
Quote I don't think I ever used Genesis once in any of the matches.

Genesis is there to put an infinite amount of fight up against control decks.  In practice, MonoU will play BtB on you and make your Genesis useless, but against Keeper, the ability to recur the Welder over and over is just a brutal beating.  (You dont want your games to go long against Keeper, but if they do Genesis is very sweet.)  

Quote
Quote What is a proper sideboarding strategy to use against Keeper?

Well, like I said, I'm having really good luck against Keeper; I dont consider it a matchup I have to side for extensively.  So I'm just bringing in 4 ReBs to help resolve my Survivals.

In my case, the first things to go out against Keeper are the utility creatures that dont mean much (Lyrist, Uktabi), the Masticore (because his upkeep is rough while pinging creatures and regen'ing isnt very useful against Keeper) and one Trike (because I dont want to get Mana Drained for 6).  I dont like to take out Jugs or Su-Chis because they are the problems that Keeper needs to solve.  

Sometimes I take out the Memory Jar.  I should love Memory Jar, but I dont for some reason.  (I think this is a quirk in my playstyle, rather than any real "wisdom" I am passing on.)  When I had Blood Moons, I was willing to take out stuff thats really really good in the matchup (like a Jug and a Su-Chi) because the Blood Moon is nearly an autowin.  

Quote
Quote The problem is that I have to bring in at least 3 or 4 Cap's to really make them worth while...

I look at them as just another early threat.  I probably would side 1 in against Keeper just for fun; when I used them it was to try and fight combo (with only moderate success).  I was mostly curious how you approached the problem; whether you sided any in or not.  

Quote
Quote I'm almost wondering if I should try to bring in 4 REBs, 4 Caps, and 3 Blood Moons which basically transofrms TNT into a deck that kills Keeper through 1/1's and Cap's.

I think 4 ReBs and 3 Blood Moons is a pretty brutal sideboard.  And, as you point out, even 7 slots is not easy to come by.  If you give this a spin, you really have to keep an eye on the White mana; Aura Fracture is suddenly a big help for him; killing your two biggest threats (Survival & Moon).  (Dont worry about their lack of synergy with each other, if you resolve either you should win.)
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hulk3rules
Guest
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2002, 10:06:11 pm »

Quote from: leviat+Nov. 11 2002,18:00
Quote (leviat @ Nov. 11 2002,18:00)(Using Trikes to kill Morphling once Blood Moon resolves)
maybe i'm missing something here, but i don't think this is going to work.  true, they may not have blue sources to make morph untargetable, yet they can still use their new mountains to pump morph up.  

on another note though, good report.  and congrats on makin top 2
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leviat
Guest
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2002, 01:05:12 am »

Thanks.

Quote
Quote maybe i'm missing something here, but i don't think this is going to work.  true, they may not have blue sources to make morph untargetable, yet they can still use their new mountains to pump morph up.
Yes they can, but it's definately in your advantage. If they try to attack and you have a Trike with all three counters, they will have to have to spend at least eight mana to have Morphling be useful:

1 mana -> Morphing becomes 4/1
(Damage go on stack)
7 mana -> Morphling becomes a 3/3, 2/4, 1/5, 0/6, 0/7, 0/8

And that's not even taking into account the fact that you might be able to "Weld" it right back into play and deal another immediate three damage causing them to scramble for another three mana.

But anyways, I was pretty much just thinking aloud.
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j_orlove
Guest
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2002, 09:52:05 pm »

Quote
Quote Sometimes I take out the Memory Jar.  I should love Memory Jar, but I dont for some reason.  (I think this is a quirk in my playstyle, rather than any real "wisdom" I am passing on.)  

Actually, I have the same problem. I always see jar either
1. get drained (and usually not come back    )
or
2. sit in my hand while I either win, or pray desperately for more mana.

I understand that I *can* do amazingly broken stuff with it, but it's starting to look more and more like Holistic Wisdom and less and less like Yawgmoth's Will. Plus, I already cut tinker, because I just hate it. Currently, I've just gone up to 2x squee, 1x genesis MD (which I've liked), but I'm still looking for something better.

I have 4x blood moon in my online SB, but that's because I see more academy than control on the internet. Versus control, I might cut stuff like Time Walk, in addition to lyrists. It's good, but not as good as your SB cards.
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