report & top 5 Den Haag tourney May9 (MUD flaunts)

[Tindemans]

nice tourney, 27 players, i guess about ten fully powered decks.
I hope to get some decklists soon, when the judge'll post 'em somewhere.
anyways, i remember the top 5:

1 Arthur Tindemans, playing Mud. (monobrown control)
2 Patrick Fransen, playing green landdestruction
3 Koen van der Hulst, playing Mud. (but splashing red for the mirror)
4 Stefan Gussenhoven Sr., playing Mud.
5 Steffen ter Veen, playing oath/reclamation.

since I was nr 1, my decklist:

1) Arthur Tindemans - MUD
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Powder Keg
3 Winter Orb
4 Grafted Skullcap
3 Karn, Silver golem
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Metalworker
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Memory Jar
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
3 Petrified Field
4 Mishra's Workshop
4 City of Traitors
1 Tolarian Academy
sb:
4 Jester's Cap
2 Null Brooch
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 The Rack
3 Crumbling Sanctuary
1 Thran Foundry


this puts my deck on 10-0 last ten matches, 6 from Eindhoven two weeks ago, 4 form Den Haag. and games 20-2 in two weeks time.

see below for report.

[Tindemans]

Tournament report Den Haag May 9th

Well, we, me and Koen van der Hulst (thug), proved our personally created decks good, by finishing 1st and 3rd , and Stefan, who copied our deck, finished 4th. We’re quite satisfied.

Short report with some gaps sometimes, I didn’t take any notes.
I wasn’t quite sure if it was good to play here, I knew quite a lot of experienced 1600ranking players could be here. These are quite dangerous for you’re ranking, like mine of 1815.
However, I went, after sideboarding 3 crumbling sanctuaries extra against sligh, which is a deck 1600 players, but still skilled players, but who are new to type 1 tournament, tend to play.

For my decklist see above.

First round. I was paired against a sligh deck, which somehow played green, and blue for ancestral. First game he began, and got out lackey. I got to choose between a first turn smokestack, or a sphere, maybe even a keg, but I wasn’t to go for the last option. However I went with sphere, which was a good option since he was low on mana and I could waste his only other land. Second turn smokestack, and slowly he bled to death. He got two flunkies out with lackey, but after a few attacks I killed the lackey on turn four with the keg, and he wasn’t able to attack anymore. A few direct damage cards came through, but that didn’t matter. Karn finished the job.
Second game. I sided in the sanctuaries. Starting hand was workshop, two fields, karn, jar, and sanctuary and some card.., which I could play first turn, which made me decide to keep. Could be scary against a wasteland, but I still decided to keep. He played land and mox, and a critter. I played that one card I forgot, and drew another workshop.
He had wastelands, but decided not to use. How painful that would turn out to be. I played another workshop, and went for sanctuary. Well, end of game. He still never used wasteland, which he draw 3 of later on. I grinded his deck with a karn, a 5/5 sanctuary and some card I later got from my jar.

Matches 1-0
Games 2-0

Second round, game 1. I played versus black. I don’t recollect to much of this game actually, but after my first turn sphere he told me he heard from the guy I just played, he was f*cked. That was his spirit. He got a cursed scroll out, but tangle wires kept him busy. Karn finished the job.
Second game, he asked me not to sideboard, to make it even worse, but I stared at him without answering. I didn’t sideboard anything though, I don’t have anything extra against black. I saw him sideboarding 4 disks.
First turn smokestack. Yup, finished. He kept a hand with 3 rituals, a hippie and some crap. He hoped to draw into a disk a suddenly play it. I didn’t draw any spheres so it would be an option. I kept him at no lands with my smokestack/skullcap, and he didn’t draw into a disk. Finally Karn finished.

Matches 2-0
Games 4-0

Third round. This would be scary. Koen and I both played Mud, along with Stefan, who copied our deck, and played it here for the first time on a tourney. We all feared the mirror. This round is when it happened. A paired against Koen, while Stefan, the copier to make it worse, could secure a easy win, while one of the creators of the deck would die here. We decided drawing would have any use, since there were only four round, and 27 people, so for one of us to win, that one would need 4 wins. Koen twisted the deck a bit, because of a possible mirror, and he added some red, along with welder. Mud doesn’t like a welder against it. I played the Rack sideboard to kill him.
First game, I began. I got workshop mox sol ring, Karn. I didn’t have much more, just a skullcap, but I thought it would be quite enough, since Karn is a legend, so I would deny his main kill method, by getting this baby into play. I played Karn, and he goes ‘fuck!’. He only played one mountain one his turn. My second turn went Field, cap, go.  He played workshop metalworker. I attacked him next turn with one 4/4 cap, and played some artifacts to be able to kill him. His turn, he played another metalworker, and got skullcap out with his other one, to be able to block. I attacked him with everything, he blocked Karn, and I got him to 2 life. His last turn he played jar with one metalworker, and had to play it to finc something usefull, but no bridges were found.
Second game. Sided out 4 spheres and three winter orb, and since I really wanted 8 spots, I sided out one smokestack, since smokestack against a deck with only permanents, just as mine, would have to be good for me at some times. I sided in 4 jester’s cap, 3 Rack, 1 Karn.
I had a workshop, vault, karn, keg, metalworker, tangle wire, and something I forgot. He played Jester’s cap out first first turn, but couldn’t use it. I decided not to play the karn just yet, so went for metalworker, and he wasn’t able to activate the cap on his next turn, because of only one mox mana and three workshop mana. He played a second turn welder, and I played Karn, keg and the skullcap I just drew into, killing his mox, discarding mana vault and some other useless card. At this time I thought damn, I should have played only keg and kill his welder, now he could use it. But too late. He switches Karn for Vault, and played workshop. I drew into Karn and the Rack. And played them. It became a very close fight, maybe he can all explain it better in the report he’s also going to write (at least that’s what he says), because I was just angrily looking at his first welder, along with his second welder he drew into next turn. Just hoping it would turn out okey. Th rack severely hurt him, a few turns, and it boiled don’t to the next deciding scene.
He killed a few cards in play for dead cards out of my graveyard, and nicely switches one card for the second Karn, which kills itself as it comes into play, being a legend. However, he was at six, no card at hand, and decided to let me have the Rack in play. He removed the remaing two Karns from my deck, and the second of the three Racks. So I had to draw into a Rack, otherwise it would get really scary. I draw. 4 cards. Yep, three skullcaps in play at this time! Well, first reaction, damn, this sucks, no rack. Wait, look again! Jar! I played jar, and guess what card number 7 form the jar was? So, end of game.

Matches 3-0
Games 6-0

Last round, round number four. I played against one who would or wouldn’t be pretending he was really dangerous for my deck, so offered a draw multiple times. He played a slightly keeperish Oath/reclamation/power artifact/grim/ cunning wish. Well, hell no! I played. He threatened me with the fact he playtested more than 30 times against Stefan, playing Mud, but still, I played. First game got smokestack out first turn. No counters. I kept his land long this way, he tutored for lotus. Now he just had mox, lotus and one land. I played tangle wire, he sacrificed every land and made my wonder why he searched for lotus, since he didn’t use it. So he had to tap it. Along with his moxes and one more land he played. My turn, draw into keg and mox, play keg, blow up his mana, and play mox. His turn, hes sac’s his only land, and slowly bled to death. I killed with Karn.
Second game, I sided in four jester’s cap’s and 2 null brooches, for three bridges, one keg, one city, and one other card. I was just máking place. So he began, land, go. I went, with workshop, land, jester’s cap, skullcap, karn on hand, and one other card, since I mulliganed once. I drew, Lotus! I played, workshop, lotus, cap… counter? ‘hmm… okey…..’ and activated cap, removed the power artifact, and two of the three remaining morphlings he apparently sided in. so with only one morphling in his deck as killcard we went one, and the game proved to be obvious.

Matches 4-0
Games 8-0

So after 4 rounds, 4 to 0, 8 to 0 in games, I was really quite satisfied.

However there was one person this tournament with 4-0 as well, but I apparently had the better what’s-it-called.
This made me win the tournament, for the second time here, since I won the only other tournament here in Den Haag 1 or 2 months ago as well, also playing Mud.

Arthur

[joeeeee54]

Really nice report! I really love your version of Mud.

 I was also curious about the deck that finished second place.  I was amazed a green land destruction deck performed so well.  Is there a decklist?

Great job!

[Tindemans]

thnx! and about the decklist from the green landdestruction, i'll try to get find the decklist if the judge doesn't post the decklists somewhere soon.
the only thing about i know about the deck that it won in the final round against Stefan with Mud using Null Rods, form his sb, so practically i know nothing actually...

 

however, I have to add, you say you like my version of Mud, and thnx for that, but this isn't a version of Mud.
This IS Mud.
Koen and I designed the monocolored (or no-colored) Mud ourselves, about half a year ago, during our summerholidays, after a lot of testing. the only things changing tourney after tourney within the deck are maybe the number of bridges/kegs (namely 3/4 or 4/3, sometimes 3/3 with one extra SB-card main) and the number of cities/fields (Koen plays 3/4, I play 4/3) and of course the SB changes due to the metagame.

(so yes you can argue Koen didn't play Mud this time, since he splashed red, that was mainly for the chance of running into a mirrormatch)
 

Arthur

[dicemanX]

Congrats on another excellent result. I love this deck, and have put together my own version of it. I decided to run Icy Manipulators main with Rishadan Ports over the Fields to go for an additional lock centered around Winter Orb (I run just 28 mana sources over your 30 and I run one less Keg). My only concern is that more and more players are starting to play powerful anti-Stax SB cards such as Pulverize, Viashinos, Serenity, Energy Flux, and Hurkyl's Recall (strong vs Skullcap), which hurt MUD more than the Stax decks themselves. I run Caps and the mighty Phyrexian Processors in the SB to give me non-artifact win conditions, and so far they have worked out very well. Also, I have been surprised by how rather ineffective the Ensnaring Bridges have been thus far, and have strongly contemplated replacing them with other anti-aggro cards like Triskelions (or even Serrated Arrows), which can remove the utility creatures like the problematic Welders in TnT and Stax or kill multiple 2/1s in Sligh.

Just some food for thought.

[Thug]

well, here's my report as promised.

As Arthur said already I played a slightly different version, splashing red. But this wasn't only for the mirrormatch. I also just wanted to try it out once in a tournament and this seemed like the perfect opportunity.

Onto the tournament:

Round 1, Casual "Steal" Deck

This guy constructed some really wierd takeover deck, it futured all kind of steal cards. Control Magic, Blating Thievery (I had to reread this card twice) , you name it, he got it. Im theory it shouldn't be really scary, but the games proved the opposite.

Game 1

I had quite a good hand, but it was lacking either Karn or Smokestack. So after a few turns of wire lockdown I kind of stalled. At some point I drew a Winter Orb, and together with a new Wire I loocked him down for a few more turns. And when I finnaly drew my Smokestack he saw his permanent dissapear in a few turns.

Game 2

I sidebaorded in two Null Brooches for some random cards. He started with a island and I went Workshop - Metalworker. He proceeded to produce another island - go turn. Next turn I revealed a Skullcap and a Null Brooch and played both, he scared me by draining the Brooch, and with his three island and the 4 mana drain mana he played a Thievery (Yeah, a turn 3 Thievery...) on my skullcap. Since I had to discard my remaining cards last turn I was forced into topdeckmode. I came back into the game with a Wire and a Welder, but when he was able to steal my Welder. When he changed my Wire end of turn I scooped.

Game 3

No changes to my sideboarding. I played a first turn Welder followed by a second turn Smokestack, which got FoW'ed. But I was able to welder it back a little later. But somehow I couldn't lock him down and he even proceeded to play some 5/5 flyer with a misdirection effect attached to it. Nevertheless I putted the thirth soot counter on my smokestack and his part of the table was clean soon after.

Matches 1-0, Games 2-1

Round 2, U/B Trix

Arthur told me that he tested some against this deck and went something like 10-3 against it. So I could look forward to this matchup with some convieniance.

Game 1

He went first with a land and mysticalled for a donate end of my turn. But after I wasted two of his lands he was stalled and I kept drawing into more and more welders. I locked him down with a smokestack and proceeded to beat him down with two welders. I got him down to two with three welders and waited one turn so I could kill him with all four, since I just drew the 4th. He asked me how the welders could kill him. I explained him that they would swing with their hammers and bash his head and he nodded in agreement and started sideboarding for game 2

Game 2

I didn't even bother sideboarding in bottle gnomes or cap's since I felt that it wasn't needed. The only thing I sided in where Null Brooches. On turn 4 or 5 I had an active Welder, Smokestack, Null Brooch and Sphere on the table. There was no way he was gonna force somethig through. Even his secret 'annul' tech wouldnt work anymore. A Karn finished the job soon after.

Matches 2-0, Games 4-1

Round 3

I was quite dissapointed to be paired up against Arthur, first of all it's not an easy matchup and second of all I would rather see us both going 4-0. Oh well...

Game 1

This game started very bad for me, Arthur won the dice roll. and I had to mulligan my hand. My second had was very slow, something like Mountain, Wasteland, Metalworker, Jar, Mox, Skullcap. Things even got worse when Arthur played a first turn Karn. I struggled to survive but whatever I tried I never was able to find an answer. Guess what I drew, mountain, mountain, moutain with a metalworker somewhere in between. Even a last effort Jar didnt show my a solution.

Game 2

I had to mulligan again but this time the six cards showed me a very good hand: Workshop, Grim, 2x Jester's Cap, Mox Ruby, Welder. So I was able to play a Welder and a Cap first turn. Arthur started with a scary Workshop - Metalworker start. I was unable to draw into a Land or Mox next turn so I want able to active my Cap. But I did draw a Skullcap, so I played that, discarding my second Jester's Cap. The metalworker made arthur able to play out most of his hand, including a Karn, Skullcap and some other stuff. And he Wastelanded my Workshop. over the next turns he was able to hurt me severly before I really could get rid of his Karns. I also used my Jester's Cap taking out two Karns and a The Rack. At some point, as also descriped in Arthur's report, I decided to let him keep his Rack over another Jester's Cap. He would only kill me if he would draw the last Rack in his deck. But he drew a Jar which led to the lethal The Rack.

Matches 2-1, Games 4-3

Round 4, Goblin Combo Beatdown (no kiddin')

Game 1

First game was really easy, he got out a lackey but I was able to black it with a Karn all game and two Smokestacks finished him off before they could consume all his permanents.

Game 2

This one was really amusing. He got out a lackey first turn and it was soon followed by a horde of goblins. but over two turns I dropped Skullcap and Bridge and held back his whole force. I has some trouble finding a Karn, but I did have three Bottle Gnomes  

Matches 3-1, Games 6-3


Overall I wasn't really disappointed, I only lost to Arthur something I can live with, since he did win the tourament. And MUD did very well this tourament, taking places 1, 3 and 4.

I did like the red splash, but if splashing a color, why not twice...

Koen

[Thug]

My decklist for reference

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
8 Mountain
2 City of Traitors
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy

4 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
4 Metalworker

4 Goblin Welder

4 Sphere of Resistence
2 Winter Orb
4 Tangle Wire
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Smokestack
4 Grafted Skullcap
2 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Memory Jar

Sideboard:

3 Blood Moon
4 Jester's Cap
3 Bottle Gnome
2 Powder Keg
2 Null Brooch
1 Karn, Silver Golem

[Tindemans]

first of all, thanx for the congrats. now my thoughts.

icy's, i think they're quite expensive, with a 4 mana cost. me and Koen decided in the early stages of the deck there shouldn't be too many 4 mqana artifacts in the deck, which make the chance on a screwed start much bigger. but further, what real use has icy without orb? of course you can tap some lands and maybe moxes, but it costs you one mana, to tap 'one mana' further it stops creatures, but most decks which run creatures, run a lot of em, like sligh, you don;t wanna cast a big 4 mana artifact to be able to tap one 2/1 creature. maybe black can run some big creatures, and of course GAT. but you can better stop these with bridge. to get to the bridge, a lot of decks, like sligh, black, tog, and let's say all tier 2 decks which always seem to pop up sometimes, just die against a bridge drop. also in the mirror you really need these.  
about the fields, I really love them, stefan decided to run factory's over fields, but throughout this tourney, the factory's never proved itselves, even better, the times he had a factory out, 1 out of two times, he really could have used a field to kill some land. and winter orb tends to be useless against some decks, like sligh (if they get out much land, they can still play instants and GAT (gushes enough, it's much better to kill the lands, with wastelands, and possibly fields.)
against black a winter orb can work, but they have to have played something before it'll work, and you can better prevent black from playing stuff.
Sometimes they even hurt yourself, when you have a 'muchland' start. (like with two workshops) at that times you can't even use a icy, if you even got one.

further, i agree about the upcoming SB-shit plenty players run, but could you explain what you mean with the Cap-argument? further processors could be fun, but you first have to get it out, then be able to activate the 4 manaeffect, and then kil in a few turns with tokens? why not just kill with one massive karn attack, as soon as you drop Karn? and most of the time, if he's able to destroy some artifacts, it will be an artifact which supports the lock in play. Kqarn is just the finishing card.
 triskelions and arrows could be usefull, i agree. but as a Sb card that is. triskelions i think are too expensive, six mana can be a problem, but arrows are ok. there are more creatures to stop from attacking with bridges then utility creatures played in decks, to stop with some other card.

well, my food for thought.

(moderators, if you think i'm getting off topic, feel free to replace, or say so and I'll start the topic somewhere else.)

[dicemanX]

Regarding the Icy, your assessment is what I was initially thinking too, but in practice things turned out surprisingly differently, so far at least. For instance, there would be occasions where Winter Orb would be out, and an Icy or two (or a Rishadan Port) on the table would give me a lock, especially if a Sphere was out as well. Tangle Wires also have good synergy with the lock. For Moxes, there are 3 Karns and 3 Kegs. Icies are also good against some decks that rely on getting that one big attacker through. They are also good in messing with control decks early on by tapping critical mana that they need for hardcasting counterspells. A single Icy can actually control two mana (one on their turn, one on yours) to get something past their non-FoW counters.

Regarding the Bridges: Very surprisingly, they have helped me very little so far vs Sligh, although I haven't faced many good aggro decks yet. Nevertheless, I have stuck with them main deck, because, like you say, they can lock out creature decks completely. The problem with Sligh is that sometimes they can sneak in a few hits with their 2/1 and 1/1 creatures before you get the Bridge out AND whittle your hand down to 1 or 0, and murder you with burn - especially Price of Progress, which can be quite devastating. Against Suicide, I know that Bridges are amazing, although I crushed three Suicide decks in tournament play without their help at all so far...

Also, a note about Tog: I play GAT myself, and have found after tons of testing that Bridges are not good enough against it. Perhaps your experiences have been different, but I find that with the proper SB, GAT couldn't care less about any Bridges you might drop. What I discovered is that as long as GAT is given the time to develop its resources in the early game and stop the various locks, they will beat you. Once they reach enough mana, they can Cunning Wish for Hurkyl's Recall and that's all she wrote usually.  Of course, a lot of GAT decks don't run Recall in their SB, so the Bridges are much more problematic for them.

Quote further, i agree about the upcoming SB-shit plenty players run, but could you explain what you mean with the Cap-argument?

I just meant that Caps could be used to eliminate their devestating SB cards if they haven't drawn them early in the game.

Quote further processors could be fun, but you first have to get it out, then be able to activate the 4 manaeffect, and then kil in a few turns with tokens? why not just kill with one massive karn attack, as soon as you drop Karn?

Agreed, but I wouldn't take out Karn for the Processors. Processors come in for the Bridges against control decks, along with Defense Grid back-up, so that the overall number of win conditions increases - the massive attack with Karn is still an option. The problem with Karn is that it can be Plowed or Edicted if you play him too early, while it might otherwise take you some time to build up your artifacts and the mana to play and activate Karn for that one lethal turn. A Processor can come out quickly, and simply spells doom for the control deck if they can't deal with it right away. Processors can also be interesting for the mirror as anti-Smokestack tech, although I don't put much faith in using them this way.  Finally, in theory, Processors could be good to outrace combo, if an opportunity arises. In my limited testing/tournament play with MUD, the Processors have really worked well so far, but of course I need to test more.

In any case, I'm having a lot of fun with this deck testing out all of the options. I'm sure that there isn't one optimal way to run this deck, and a lot of the choices are obviously metagame dependent. I look forward to your future tournament reports with this deck and to seeing how certain tech works out (like your Crumbling Sanctuaries - very interesting idea, and I also liked Thug's idea of splashing red for Welders and SB Blood Moons).

[Thug]

Quote The problem with Sligh is that sometimes they can sneak in a few hits with their 2/1 and 1/1 creatures before you get the Bridge out AND whittle your hand down to 1 or 0, and murder you with burn - especially Price of Progress, which can be quite devastating.

In my opinion Bridge is excelent against sligh. The scenario you described here, does happen from time to time, but it's something you have to keep in mind while playing. Always leave a wasteland untapped so you can dodge up to 4 damage from a PoP.
The thing is, if you only rely on kegs and karns (in a lesser extent) to stop creatures, you are taking to many damage from creatures and the burn spells suddenly become very dangerous.
After sidebaording the bridge strategy works even better. After dropping one, all they have left in some burn-spells (cursed scrolls shouldn't deal more than 2 damage) And if you can drop some king of lifegain than, it will assure victory.

Quote Also, a note about Tog: I play GAT myself, and have found after tons of testing that Bridges are not good enough against it. Perhaps your experiences have been different, but I find that with the proper SB, GAT couldn't care less about any Bridges you might drop. What I discovered is that as long as GAT is given the time to develop its resources in the early game and stop the various locks, they will beat you. Once they reach enough mana, they can Cunning Wish for Hurkyl's Recall and that's all she wrote usually.  Of course, a lot of GAT decks don't run Recall in their SB, so the Bridges are much more problematic for them.

It is true that the main thing your trying to do againt GAT is stopping their resources, 'cause if you succeed their creatures will never become a real threat. But there are some times that GAT can drop a dryad very soon and pump it before you can deny their mana-sources. In these situations I just like the Bridge too much to cut it.

Quote Finally, in theory, Processors could be good to outrace combo, if an opportunity arises. In my limited testing/tournament play with MUD, the Processors have really worked well so far, but of course I need to test more.

They are actually very slow in outracing combo. Imagine this:

second turn - play processor (for 19, or whatever is enough to kill them)
thirth turn - active it
forth turn - kill them

In most circumstances karn will be as fast as this and it also kills moxes. And, whitout a Metalworker the 4mana for the activation of the processor is actually pretty hard to pay for. I don't think this card would be a improvement in any way, but if you think the opposite, feel free to convince me  

[dicemanX]

Quote It is true that the main thing your trying to do againt GAT is stopping their resources, 'cause if you succeed their creatures will never become a real threat. But there are some times that GAT can drop a dryad very soon and pump it before you can deny their mana-sources. In these situations I just like the Bridge too much to cut it.

I suppose that in my version an early Dryad is less of a problem if I have an Icy as a back up plan. Still, I have to stress that in playtesting drawing a Bridge was surprisingly not very desirable. After SB I still keep 2 Bridges in the deck "just in case".

Quote They are actually very slow in outracing combo. Imagine this:

second turn - play processor (for 19, or whatever is enough to kill them)
thirth turn - active it
forth turn - kill them

A fourth turn kill is quite good these days - combo is quite slow lately with the loss of Dragon. Still, I was thinking of something faster, like 1st turn Metalworker, 2nd turn Processor AND create token, third turn kill . Plus, Spheres can buy you lots of time in any case if you get them out early. This is by no means a great plan, but it could steal some games IF you can't lock them or win quickly with Karn. In any case, Processors are there mainly vs control, not combo .

Quote And, whitout a Metalworker the 4mana for the activation of the processor is actually pretty hard to pay for.

I haven't had much problems so far, and even if I have to wait a bit, that's OK too.

[Tindemans]

okey dicemanX, i absolutely agree with you on what you say about the matches against sligh and GAT. sligh can hit you a few times with small creatures, and then puch some burn through. but still you have to stop the critters, with keg or bridge, after which you can take control. a combination of bridge and sphere usually secures the win. hoewever, since it is possible to lose, i tested the sanctuaries, since when you get them into play against sligh, they say something as "you gain 30 life" or just "you win".
sometimes they're win-more cards, but they secure the win in a great way.

about the GAT match up, most of it is said above. it's true they usually win, the moments they can get a good start, and do something like wish for a recall. true. but as Koen said, you have to stop the creatures, whih sometimes come out in a flash. but bridges work the same way here as icy i think.

about the processors, i just don't have to much faith in them. also, what you said last, about it being fast with a first turn metalworker and a few artifacts in your hand. with that start, you'll win anyhow. sphere, tangle wire or skullcap can give you enough advantage, if pushed through.
but maybe the processors just have to really prove theirselves first.

however, you mentioned the triskelions and the arrows, and i'm beginning to think they could work out very nicely. in combination with totems (i know, it can get a little high i amounts of SBcards, but maybe it's needed in the metagame) you an pretty much kill TnT and even Stax, i guess. with 3 triskelion and 4 totem for the spheres and orb, maybe TnT finally dies against this deck.

[Grand Inquisitor]

This should probably be posted in another forum, but since you guys are debating various matchups, I thought it appropriate:

What are the bad matchups for MUD (or any wire/stack build)?  It looks like suicide or combo might be problematic, but I've seen it role over almost everything.

Are its inconsistent draws its only drawback?

[Tindemans]

Quote (Grand Inquisitor @ May 14 2003,18:16)Are its inconsistent draws its only drawback?

yup, probably  

seriously, it can really handle anything, sometimes depending on some sideboarding, but it had great chances against any deck, even without. it just totally disrupts opponents deck, or is able to, from turn one. against black, the problem with black can be, like almost with any serious type 1 deck, it can com out with some moves, in a really explosive way. that way it can totally disrupt you, or like GAT must have to beat you, it has really broken starts now and then. but the problem for those decks is, Mud, or any Mud-like deck, has more dirty explosive starts then, I think i can say, any other deck.
about combo, it can be its broken starts which can make them win, but often combo just dies against spheres, or just cap's, after boarding. maybe even defense grids, against massive counters. at least with SB it can adapt in any metagame.

however, the monobrown Mud, we are yet to find a way to beat TnT, since TnT uses welder and can search for a lot of em. these are very painful. somehow it can always squeeze some painful cards thru. however I think with with around 7 SB cards it should be able to beat TnT, but that's quite a lot.
so Stax decks, with red for welders, and blue for more cards, are more matched against TnT, and also against Mud. but this of course makes the deck lose some speed, which can be problematic.

overall, Mud just is a very good deck.
note, from the last three Dutch tournaments, Koen finished 2nd in one, and I finished 1st in both other ones, like I said above. and you saw the three Muds in the top 4 here.

and with some intelligent mulliganning, the inconsistent draws can be oppressed, mostly all of the times.
only with one game lost by bad draws, and one game lost by opponents explosiveness, the deck usually loses a match.
(with exception of a TnT-match-up probably)
only draws do happen, because the deck doesn't have to be fast all the time.

what can I say, I'm glad the deck the deck turns out to work so well.

[Thug]

Quote What are the bad matchups for MUD (or any wire/stack build)?  It looks like suicide or combo might be problematic, but I've seen it role over almost everything.

People keep calling combo a problamatic matchup for wire/stack decks, but I think this is where MUD really shines compared to the coloured options.
Because of the very high amount of disruption MUD runs, its a real headache to most combo decks out there. The only really dangerous combo-deck would be Turboland, since it can sometimes just spew out too much permanents.

And suicide shouldn't really be a problem either, bridge is golden in this matchup as is sphere. If a suicide deck doesn't run Null Rod it shouldnt be a problem, but you still can get unlucky from time to time.

The main problem for MUD is TNT, as Arthur and I already mentioned several times, but if we do some more testing and find out the correct strategy things should get more even there as well.

Koen

[urza's child]

I have a question about the deck (I am very new to MUD, but not to smokestack oriented decks)

What are the ensnaring bridges in for? what do you cast them against? and when you have casted them, how do you win? just rely on smokestack??? its a very interesting but i see a general smokestack approach, and then an ensnaring bridge/skullcap part with no 2 power creatures other than the karn animates, kinda confused

[Tindemans]

okey. first, where the bridges are in for is totally mentioned above, just scroll up. almost any creature deck is just finished against a bridge, with some mana-disrupt in play.

further, how you get rid of em. yup, this is why matches actually can take some time. when you have decided you really needed them in one particular game, and thus playing one instead of discarding it with skullcap, or, well, not playing it, it can be a time-taking work to get rid of em.
however, usually you'll have 3 options; or you'll draw into smokestack. problem solved. or, once you're in control, you can use a keg for the bridges. third option, you can get skullcap out, thus drawing more, which leads to more chances for option 1 or 2, or just gives you more possible attackers for each additional skullcap drawn, by giving you one more card in your hand each turn.