Unpowered decks in Type 1 tournies.

[Anonymous]

Okay, so I'm about to attend a Type 1 tournament full of Power.
But I don't have any of the P10...  How do you think I'd fair?

 

[Anonymous]

It depends a lot on the metagame and the deck youre playing. I would play Suicide Black unless you see a lot of aggro. Sui Black works well without power and has good chances against most control decks and can disrupt combo enough to swing for lethal damage. Choose the right deck and crush them   

I wish you luck!

[dan_hellspawn]

Sctuffiez,

Check out the Primers on Nether Void, Suicide Black, Stompy, and Sligh.

All of these decks can be made cheaply (if you dont add the lotus and appropriate moxes).

Also, check out Legend's AnkhSligh discussion in the Extreme Vintage forum for another deck that doesn't cost too much to play.

If you get the right matchups and a little luck, you can do respectable with an unpowered deck.

Good luck if you play!
Dan

[Anonymous]

hehe thx

I thought about netdecking...  But even if I did netdeck SuiBlack, I lack Sinkholes and most sideboard cards.

I don't know my metagame, but I should expect Keeper, TnT and combo.  Maybe even Mask.

I'm reluctant to post my rogue deck due to embarrassment...  But here it is:


Schtuffiez

17x Swamp
4x  Mishra's Factory
4x  Wasteland
1x  Strip Mine
4x  Dark Ritual
4x  Duress
1x  Vampiric Tutor
1x  Demonic Consultation
4x  Hymn To Tourach
4x  Diabolic Edict
1x  Demonic Tutor
1x  Mind Twist
4x  Hypnotic Specter
4x  Phyrexian Negator
1x  Yawgmoth's Will
1x  Necropotence
4x  Nevinyrral's Disk

Sideboard:
4x  Powder Keg
4x  Nantuko Shade
4x  Contagion
2x  Zuran Orb
1x    (Disenchant against Null Rod, but I have no Scrublands)

The Kegs could be mainboarded, but they're often dead draws against rogue decks.


 

[dan_hellspawn]

4 Nevinnyrals Disk in a (essentially) suicide black deck are too much. Im not sure why you'd sideboard the Nantuko shades. What would you bring them in against? For this reason, i would drop the 4 nevy's disks then main deck the nantuko's.
This gives you a 12 creature base. The only problem with Nantuko's though is that you have a lot of colorless mana sources (factory, waste,strip) so you can't pump him as much as you'd like. Playtesting will help you find the right balance though. Even if you use Nantuko, i'd suggest 2 Null Rods. You can side them out when playing against non-artifact wielding decks but they shut down moxes, lotus, etc which your deck doesn't have.

You also have too much card draw in my opinion.  You have Vamp Tutor, Demonic, Necro, AND Consult. I would only leave in Demonic and Necro (at least you can Demonic for the Necro if you really need it).  With 4 Duress, 4 Hymn, Mindtwist is no longer needed.

You really need Sinkholes in this for the disruption to work. If you can find 50 dollars somewhere pick up an unlimited set.


I am not a fan of Mishra's Factorys. With Nantuko Shades you want as much black mana available as possible, and already having 4 wastelands and a strip makes it worse.

I would drop the Diabolic from 4 to 1 maindeck because with 12 creatures and 3 edicts, either you've already won the game before you draw the 4th, or dont deserve to win. The modified deck would look like this:

Mana 28
`````````
19x Swamp (17 if you had Lotus and Jet)
4x  Wasteland
1x  Strip Mine
4x  Dark Ritual

Disrupt 10
````````
4x  Duress
4x  Hymn To Tourach
2x  Null Rod

Utility 9
```````
3x  Diabolic Edict
1x  Demonic Tutor
1x  Yawgmoth's Will
1x  Necropotence
1x  Demonic Consulation (may be overkill)
3x  Powder Keg

Beats 12
~~~~~
4x  Hypnotic Specter
4x  Phyrexian Negator
4x  Nantuko Shade

[Anonymous]

It's not a SuiBlack deck.

The entire sideboard is against Sligh.
-4x  Phyrexian Negator
-4x  Hypnotic Specter
-4x  Diabolic Edict
-1x  Vampiric Tutor
-1x  Necropotence
+4x  Powder Keg
+4x  Nantuko Shade
+4x  Contagion
+2x  Zuran Orb

The Shades replace the Negators as the only kill in the deck.
I used to use Volrath's Stronghold to recur the Shades, but not anymore.


It's a rogue deck with very little focus.  Essentially, that's why it's won against Power so far.

[dan_hellspawn]

Quote (Guest @ Jan. 13 2003,12:40)It's a rogue deck with very little focus.  Essentially, that's why it's won against Power so far.

If that's the case, why are you asking if it will win against power??

And how is Nantuko shade good vs. sligh? At end of turn, Lightning bolt and he's dead. Leaving you 4 factories, 4 nantukos, all 8 which are boltable to death.

[Anonymous]

After the first game, my opponant would know exactly what I'm up to.  So the element of surprise is gone.

What do you mean the Shade will be Bolted off?  Yes he can be burnt off, but so can any other creature.

All my tests against Sligh show that 4 Kegs and 4 Contagions are able to buy me enough time to get set up with enough Swamps to hopefully give Shade a chance against Bolt+Blast...  If necessary.

If you're suggesting loading the deck with more creatures than Sligh can burn off, then I might as well play Sui-Black...  But without Sinkholes, it's not quite adaquete.

[Captain Cannibus]

Any black deck with your standard discard and rituals that comes out strong, should have a chance.

Quote The Kegs could be mainboarded, but they're often dead draws against rogue decks.

When is a keg a dead draw?  Most decks I've ever played in type 1 run artifacts or creatures whether they were 'rogue' decks or not.  Plus keg is a lot less likely to get mana drained and if you're playing in a field full of power, you're going to run into those.

I think you're making a mistake by only preparing your sideboard for the sligh matchup.  

Also why aren't you running masticore?  They are amazing against sligh.

I would make these changes to your maindeck:

-1 demonic consultation
-4 diabolic edict (before you scoff, hang on)
-4 nevinyrral's disk

+3 chainer's edict
+2 powder keg
+4 nantuko shade

I think it's all pretty self explanitory, except I would play chainer's over the diabolic simply because you are running 26 lands and 4 dark rituals.  You are going to have a lot of excess mana laying around (hopefully less with the maindecked shades), you might as well use it.  

Actually you might want to run more than just 2 kegs...

[Anonymous]

loool  The deck can't be critiqued so easily.
I didn't list the decklist in the topic post because I wasn't looking for improvements.  But suggestions on stratagies on how to get around the lack of explosiveness that the P10 give.

Speed is clearly _the_ substitute for Power.  But netdecking Sligh and SuiBlack aren't very fun.

My Schtuffiez deck is just a Johnny deck that turned out to do well against real T1 decks.
It's called "Schtuffiez" because it's loaded with staples.  

[Captain Cannibus]

I'm not suggesting that you make any changes to the deck, just to consider other possible options.

One of the main points of my post was in fact to address your lack of explosiveness.  Keg is fast, disk is not.  In the environment you describe, this should be heavily considered.

Consider a masticore for your 1 iffy sideboard slot.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the advice, but the deck can't be understood because it lacks focus.  
Taking out all 4 Disks would make me vulnerable to Abyss and...  Light of Day.    

The Kegs would mainly be used as Moxen wipers...  They wouldn't help me win against Sligh.  So that's why I just sideboard them.
The deck has too many dead cards against sligh to expect to win just because there's a few Kegs mainboarded for game 1.

The more I think about it, the less enjoyable it would seem to attend a Powered T1 tournament.
Hopefully, there'd be loads of newbies sporting green.

[Puschkin]

Kegs can also wipe out all their creatures at once AND Cursed Scrolls at the same time, is that nothing? And Bottle Gnomes are definately better vs. Sligh than Shades.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Puschkin @ Jan. 14 2003,04:36)Kegs can also wipe out all their creatures at once AND Cursed Scrolls at the same time, is that nothing? And Bottle Gnomes are definately better vs. Sligh than Shades.

How are Bottle Gnomes better than Shades against Sligh?

[Puschkin]

The Shade swings once and is then bolted (or bolted immideatedly when summoned). The Gnomes are 3 life for sure and thus "cancel" a bolt, much like Shade "draws" a bolt. But, since the Gnome can block any creature usually played by Sligh, he would have to toast the Gnome. If he does, you can still sac it for 3 life and he wasted virtually two bolts, understand?\n\n

[Anonymous]

That's what I was thinking.

I'll try to put 4 Masticores in the sideboard rather than 4 Shades.
The Shades were successful so far against T1 Sligh...  But I'll see how Masticore fairs.

[Radjammin]

Well it depends on your megagame <Bla Bla>...
and there are no tier one deck <Bla Bla>
and weather your field is fully powered <bla Bla>

Just play Sligh, Sui, or Parfait.  You will do fine and have fun.
The deck listing in the primers are great against any format for a beginner.

Just don't be Joe Original, bring every restricted card you own and make some awefull deck out of them that does nothing.  We have primers for a reason.  Play the primers a few times and after you see why these deck do well, maybe start designing for yourself.  Your original decks will do better and you will be prouder of them.