Parfait Idea Mill

[Anonymous]

I thought I would just post my deck for kicks... Remember, it still needs A LOT of testing so don't be to hard on it...

SuiParfait (sui because I discard like crazy for my benifit)

Engine #1
4x Land Tax
3x Scroll Rack
2x Claws of Gix

Engine #2
3x Anvil of Bogardan
2x Solitary Confinement
3x Squee, Goblin Nabob

Kill
2x Spirit Cairn

Creature Control
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Humility
1x Balance

Enchantment/Artifact Stuff
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Aura of Silence
1x Seal of Cleansing

Recursion
2x Replenish
2x Feldons Cane (counters Tormod's Crypt)
2x Argivian Find
1x Soldevi Digger

Misc.
3x Orim's Chant

Land
1x Strip Mine
3x Wasteland
1x Mox Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
13x Plains
1x Mountain

Sideboard
2x Bloodmoon
1x Mountain
2x Wrath of God
1x Moat
1x Orim's Chant
1x Solitary Confinement
1x Karmic Justice
1x Replenish
1x Feldon's Cane
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Aura of Silence


There are 63 cards in the mindeck, but I can't decide which 3 cards to take out! Help! This is a very rough draft, please don't yell at me... but all comments are welcome! Soooo... What do you think? (I also need help with the sideboard and Recursion part...)

[MoreFling]

Urza : If you want to build a deck that runs around that, fine, but I don't see how it has ANYTHING to do with parfait?
Why not ask Puschkin if you can start a new thread, and possibly close this one?
Seems like a way better option then filling this one up with the dirt that it's currently filling up with.

[Anonymous]

@MoreFling - Noobs say Necropotence sucks! Are you saying you trust noobs?! "I have to pay life to get a card!?!? What a rip!!1!1!!!! This card Sucks!"* Please don't use noobs opinions as reasons to why cards suck...

The noob quote is something i actually herd once at a tourny...

I believe spirit cairn has possibility, sorry if you don't. Without people thinking outside the box GroATog would never be viable in type 1 "Pphht, like a type 2 deck could beat my keeper! Kept dreaming noob!"*

Again, a real quote... even the great Masticore has been hated by many a noob.

So please, don't hate until you've tested the deck...

[MoreFling]

Again, you completely went past the issue and meaning of the post.

I won't even bother returning the favor, buddy.

[Anonymous]

MoreFling: I've played a netdecked Parfait on and off for awhile now, but never long enough to become familiar with all its complexities. I'd really appreciate it if you would shed some light on why the deck I designed has nothing in common with Parfait. I could be missing some huge mistake I made, but would like to see what it is. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Sorry about the double post, but this is really bothering me and I would really like an answer from someone who has experience with the archetype, and was feeling as if my question was being neglected.

[Anonymous]

I guess morfling just ment that even thought the same concept and many cards were the same, it wasn't K-Runs Parfait, thus it wasn't Parfait... Don't know though... you'de have to ask morfling.

[MoreFling]

I'm not a firm believer of K-Run's build, if you actually bothered to read past the newbie forum and look into the vintage and extreme vintage.

Muzzo : your deck doesn't even have tax/rack, which I don't mind, but your deck is completely different, in terms of strategy and power.

[Anonymous]

Now that your little pms spout is over can we get down to actual ideas.

@MuzzonoAmi, the reason that your deck is not really parfait is because you have lost a key element of the deck, tax/rack.  Your deck looks interesting, but I don't think that it will have the same (can't find good word) that parfait has.  I am guessing that the entombs are supposed to be duress because well...  Also you have null rods, why?  Are you trying to lock down some moxen, or what?  If you could explain some of your card choices it might make more sense.  And if your trying to make more of a combo version of parfait(with the bargin+words) why not use academy rector or some other jank like that.

@Urza_Insane, Just looking at spirit cairn, it does not have the explosive bitch slap that sacred mesa does.  In the long run, both enchantments kill your opponent, but you will be like "spirit cairn, go" and on your next turn you will have what, like 3 tokens at most, while I will go, "sacred mesa"(I tap my serra's sanctum and other lands)"making many ponies, which run you down on my next turn or two, not 5 turns later.

General Questions...
    Does anyone run karmic justice in their MD, or is it always sideboard, for when your opponent brings in destruction?
    What about whitetrash and his thing with 4 ivory towers?
    Can we be civil?  Or are you guys going to erupt into another war over who is yelling at who and whos ideas suck because I thought that the point of having a discussion/idea mill was so that people posted new ideas for parfait without total flames.

Something else...
I am sorry if anyone thinks I am flaming, or yelling, because I am trying to remain civil and not total ruin your days.
oh yeah, MoreFling, shut up if you won't say anything nice, or civil all I can remember you doing is making fun of peoples ideas without a reason beyond, "you can't run null rod, it shuts down your scroll rack!"  When people obviously thought about what it would do.  If they did not think about it stopping the combo then...

Right, my ideas...
There are very few times that I worry about that last moxen or whatever, because if their lands are shut down a single pony maker will crush them.  But if you really worry, and since your running red, mox monkey?  I know its a creature, but if its the last few moxen then he does the trick in one turn.
     If you say that he won't work with humility then just shut up now, because well, if you have a blood moon and a humility, probably along with a bunch of other stuff, you should have won by now.

[Anonymous]

nice post martel, this is what this thread wa ssupposed to be like... then it got twisted into something ugly... but, to the points...

1. I totally agree that spirit cairn is at least 10x worse than sacred mesa, but in the deck that I made it has much more synenergy with the rest of the cards in the deck, plus, if you read my new parfait thread you will see that I HATE using other peoples decks/ideas... It was actually weird because me playing Parfait was an evolutionary thing, my deck actually evolved into Parfait (never knew what it was untill somebody told me my deck was a lot like it and I should just play it) I am a rogue (I can NEVER spell this word right!) player at heart... who has a love for parfait.

2. @Ivory Tower... I was actually playing with 4 for a little while and it is great against fast aggro, like wennie decks... but I found in the long run it wasn't worth it, well, unless your meta has a lot of aggro because this card soes very little but prolong games against control. In my opinion it is a win more card like so many before it. I actually don't run any now.

3. @ Mox Monkey... I have tried VERY hard not to add creatures into Parfait, and I think in the long run it will help... some such creatures are... Mox Monkey, Confessor (in my deck = the tech),  Hanna, Ship's Navigator, Devout Witness, Masticore... + many more... but I find that in the end they are not worth it. They make your opponents creature hate do something, the many times are hurt by your deck (sorry) like humility and wrath, and to vaulnerable in this deck. I never find the extra (at max) 5 moxes to be a problem. If they have all 5 and I have a blood moon, I'm am usually not worried and have an wura or seal to take care of some. add a powder keg if you are still worried.

...can't remember if you had any more questions... sooo... ok then

[Anonymous]

Oh, sorry to double post, but thank you martel for not yelling... unlike some people. I appreciate that A LOT! everybody should us his (her) post as an example of how to post ideas!

[Gabethebabe]

Quote (j_orlove @ Feb. 16 2003,01:15)Lotus would also work, but it's one-shot, and you can always chant in response to the sacrifice.

Ouch!

Under the current rules it is not possible to respond to a mana ability.

Anyway: if you have Blood Moon out, you should go for the moxes: Sapphire first, to stop Cunning Wish, then Jet(YawgWill, Demonic) then Pearl. Ruby: don´t bother. If the Keeper player is holding back moxes, you should hold back on Chants and try to squeeze Aura of Silence(s) into play. They only have 4 FoW. At the moment they have found their stuff you can go chanting in response to them playing a Mox/Lotus. After that you kill the Mox with Aura.

[Anonymous]

About chanting or abeyancing(sp?) in response to your opponent using their black lotus.  I know that you can't e like ok in response to you tapping your lands i am going to chant you, but black lotus is not a land.  And tapping and saccing the lotus it part of its activation cost, and then you add the mana, otherwise it would be like you couldent respond to any tap ability.  Unless I am totally wrong, someone say something.  Actually either way say something.

And for clarification I'm a guy.

Mox monkey was a long shot, and I don't really like creatures either, except the random serra avatar thing, but even then, that was weird.  And really what can your opponent do with 5 mana, 1 of each color, well a bunch of red, so he/she might fire you(be afraid).  Ok so he can cunning wish for his/her alley, or some other crap, but you have time, and a magical pony making machine.  So he can do a fair amount, if he(or she) and his(or her) artifacts live that long.

[Radjammin]

Ya guys lets get this clear,

You can only respond to a spell or an effect when you could play an instant.

Times you can't respond -
When someone is paying any type of cost for a spell or effect.
When someone is playing a land.

You gotta have a stack to stack your spell onto.  During these times in the game, there ain't no stack to stack on.

Your comment about the lotus, what exactly were you tring to respond to?

You can't respond to them paying the cost of tapping and sacrificing and you can't respond to the mana being added to the mana pool as it is still just paying a cost. The closest thing you can respond to is whatever they choose to do with the mana.

edit : I guess you could respond to them casting the Lotus too, I just wanted to note this, not that you would actually want to ever do this

Also note that Abayance states non-mana activated abilites so that won't work either, even if it has already resolved on a previous stack during that turn.

Remember Chant isn't a counter spell.  It just means they can't announce any more new spells, once it resolves!!!

[Anonymous]

This looks like an interesting deck, White control, who'd a thunk it This didn't exist last time I played Type 1 seriously. Now that I'm playing again I think I'll give it a try.

As far as kooky ideas go has anyone thought about adding green as another color? It gets you another enchantment tutor and some very nice support enchantments.

Sterling Grove (WG) - Enchantment. All other enchantments you control can't be the target of spells or abilities. (1) Sacrifice it and tutor for an enchantment. Put it into your hand.

The other obvious one's are Sylvan Library and Compost. Library might be kind of redundant with the Tax/Scroll but if you play Ivory Tower it is certainly some nice card drawing. Compost would probably be a sideboard card of course.

Enchantress's Presence would be some serious card drawing as well and is G2 casting cost. This might be moving Parfait towards Enchantress though so might not be a Parfait change you'd want to do.

Also Holistic Wisdom is a re-useable Arigivian Find if you really need 1 enchantment over another one. Also works really good with the Land Tax/Strip Mine action. It is GG1 casting cost though

On the very silly end of the Green enchantments is Night Soil (GG Pay 1 remove 2 creatures cards in a single graveyard from the game, put a 1/1 Saproling token into play). Might do something against TnT and Dragon. But like I said it's pretty silly This is probably just my desire to play Thallid's/Saprolings again though.

With Green you also get some hate against the mirror match (Ray of Revelation flashed back, Ground Seal, Krosan Reclamation). They work pretty good against Dragon and TNT and the Ground Seal can also protect you from some graveyard hate (course most people just run Crypt or Planar Void in Type 1). Cleansing Meditation/Crypt is probably alot better in the mirror though.

Also since you have a large amount of mana available once the Sanctum is in play has any thought been given to actually try and use the worse wish (Golden) since it could get to your sideboard first game?

[Radjammin]

Michael McConnell,

    Funny reading your ideas, these question have come up in the past and I will try to answer as many as I can with what are considered today's standards.

There is a GWB deck that spawned from Parfait called Enchantress that contains alot of your off color ideas. You can find many articles on this site about it.  Most of your recommended cards are already in it.

Concerning Color splashing, currently there is ALOT!! of non-basic hate in type 1.  Most people fine the simpleness of Parfiat and it's basic plains to more stable vs. this type of hate.  About the library, most people use it.  Most people consider it worth it even with all the non-basic hate.  Actually the only thing people splash for in parfiat is red, for Blood Moon.  I guess if everyone else is doing it then... join the party.

[Anonymous]

Yeah. Just thought I'd throw the ideas out there since I didn't see them in this thread. I do like Solitary Confinement alot as well but couldn't come up with a really good card-drawing machine that would continue to replace itself fast enough (Tax/Scroll is nice but if you can't actually Tax anymore your not netting more cards to pitch) without altering the whole thing Parfait seems to do.

I probably wouldn't run duals if splashing Green since you have tax to get basics. Heavily splashing Green while still supporting the Blood Moon would be inconsistent though.

Forgot one good enchantment in Green as well. Multani's Presence would, I think, help the control matchup alot. It's only G casting cost as well.

I really do like the Sterling Grove/Holistic Wisdom plays. I guess maybe in a more of an old style Replinish type lock they would work better. You'd have to run to much control in Type 1 to get the Replenish through. Then it wouldn't be White control.

Any thoughts on the Golden Wish? It seems to go along with the idea of generating alot of mana once a good lock is down. You make alot of Pegasi and win but you could alternately get a different card (maybe another Mesa if yours were removed).
Or even an Ivory Mask or Solitary Confinement if you need it to last a couple more turns (Scroll or whatever is hitting you).

[Anonymous]

Its funny that you should mention solitary confinement, because I recently contructed a Parfait deck revolveing around it! Here is my current decklist.

Engine #1
4x Land Tax
3x Scroll Rack
2x Claws of Gix

Engine #2
3x Anvil of Bogardan
2x Solitary Confinement
3x Squee, Goblin Nabob

Kill
3x Spirit Cairn

Creature Control
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Humility
1x Balance

Enchantment/Artifact Stuff
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Aura of Silence
1x Seal of Cleansing

Recursion
2x Replenish
4x Argivian Find
1x Soldevi Digger

Land
1x Strip Mine
3x Wasteland
1x Mox Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
12x Plains
2x Mountain

Sideboard
2x Bloodmoon
2x Wrath of God
1x Moat
4x Orim's Chant
1x Karmic Justice
1x Replenish
3x Tormod's Crypt
1x Aura of Silence

This deck plays MUCH better than it looks... try it out and see if you like it! I love how this deck plays... more stable in my opinion than regular parfait... Whatever... tell me what you think!

[Anonymous]

Yeah. I saw that build in this thread or the one about the Dark Parfait one. As I think someone else mentioned it looks alot slower (the Cairns versus the Mesa) unfortunately.

If you like Solitary Confinement though you could play it as a long enough lasting soft lock. I have a tendency to like hard locks but really I think just dropping Solitary Confinement and making tokens for 2 or 3 turns is going to win the vast majority of the time.

You don't really need the Squee's at this point nor the Cairns and could go back to the Mesa's for the kill. I don't see a big problem with a soft Confinement lock if you're beating down with 5 or 10 tokens a turn. The hard lock (Squees and Cairns) seem to be overkill or what people seem to call 'winning more' now.

[Anonymous]

I was that guy, who said that spirit cairn is a ton slower than mesa, but really your general build of this deck revolves around your metagame.  My problem with the cairn is that while solitary confinement makes a great lock on sly, everyone seems to be putting sly aside for new decks, all of them running enchantment removal main, so using a single enchantment for the lock doesn't work as well.  Of course I just shelved Parfait to play this enchantress mutation I invented, that for some reason is doing well, sterling grove makes a lockdown permenant.
    And since you mentionded that duel lands don't work with land tax, that is true, which is why enchantress doesn't run land tax and uses a mass of duels and other non-basics.
    Urza_Insane, you deck is fun, and I did try it and it was pretty cool, but I guess I am stuck with my enchantress mutation, till I change my fickle mind about which deck to play.
     About parfait again, golden wish.  It is just bad.  they killed it with a casting cost of 5, because they thought that if it was 2 it would be broken, and It would have been, but instead of 3, or at most 4 (which is still high) they went to 5, which is just dumb.  While it has some of the best targets (in my opinion) the casting cost makes it just to crappy for even my random decks.
    Anyone want to post a general sb, and what matches each card is for?

Sorry if there are any stupid spelling errors, or problems with my writing, and Thx in advance for posting sb stuff.

[Anonymous]

Do not compare this mostrousity to Dark Parfait....

[Anonymous]

UGH!!! How dare you call it a monstrosity! I didn't insult your deck (w/ the abyss)! I'm telling you to play the deck, I'm just saying that the deck isn't THAT horrible... I REALLY like the Anvils in the deck, as it actually speeds the deck up and spirit cairn is much better than it looks as you can just throw it down whenver you have it and start pumping out creatures w/ your anvil/solitary confinement. The reason I have 3x squee is because I have 5x cards that are discard... whatever... back to parfait... Oh, and Whitetrash, I didn't name my thread black parfait, i named it suiparfait but a mod changed it for some reason... sorry...

Back on topic...
I agree that golden wish is bad... lets talk about phyrexian processor... K-Run has been playing it and I was wondering what you people thought of it...? I'm not to sure about it as I usually don't have much life to spare... u?

[Anonymous]

oops... I meant to say...

I'm NOT telling you to play the deck

sorry, but that was harsh whitetrash! I like my deck!

[Anonymous]

Your deck is amuzing, but anyway...
      Phyrexian Processor, I have it in my sb, and you only side it in against control, because it adds another threat.  I think that is right.  I mean, if you side it in against sligh, you would have to be a total dumbass.  Any quick deck, would take too many chunks from your life total early game, to make it effective, so I just bring it in against control, so you have another reaccurable threat, while not replenishable, findable, so it can happen again.  And control can't exactly deal "quick" damage.  Oh well I ahve to finish cooking dinner, and my sister is.... ggggrrrrrr!!!!!
   Ok well that is all I can say about Processor, any other ideas?

[Anonymous]

Ok I'll play nice, but to prevent flames I wouldn't even refer to this as parfait.  Adding Abyss was adding one card, this is changing the whole deck.  Its like it I said run mask and nought in keeper, it just ain't keeper anymore.

Ok if you are going to go the Processor route, you have to combo around it.  You need to run either mishra's workshops to get them out fast, or run ancient tombs.  Also run 4 ivory towers for life gain to make big tokens.  Altar of dementia might be a good option to sac the fat tokens and mill your oppenent.  Remeber that under humility you can pump out the fattys as little 1/1s then sac the humility to claws and make a surprise swing.

You have 17 cards in your deck that are your engines.  That is almost a 3rd of your deck.  I think tax rack is enough.  
Also I think digger is a bit too slow.  Most players I know have dropped it and do not miss it.  
I think you could consolidate some of your cards.  Solitary confinement and squee are a hard lock most aggro decks can't break quickly.  You need mask out to stop crypt, and humilty out to stop lyrist and such.  Then you need to kill them.  Maybe try zombie infestation?  you could run 4 squees and they would work for the infestation and the confinement.
Hell with the squee infestation, you could run contamination once you get them locked down, you won't need white mana after that.

[Anonymous]

My bad, the confinement is a mask to boot!  ok how about this for a contribution...

Padded Cell

Engine (9)
4 LandTax
3 Scroll Rack
2 Claws of Gix

Force Field (8)
4 Solitary Confinement
4 Squee Goblin Naboob

Tools (8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Orim's Chant

Goodies (6)
3 Spirit Cairn
1 Empyrial Armor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Balance

Recur (6)
4 Argivian Find
2 Replenish

Mana (23)
1 Solring
1 Mox Pearl
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
13 Plains

There you go rough cut, with confinement and squee, you shouldn't need humility or mask.  STP is for utility critters they have.  Confinement also keeps you immune to stuff like donate, stroke, and crypt.  I would try something like this.  Simple, redundant.  The armor is there for a quicker kill, multiple cairns with multiple confinement/squee, means you can start pumping out a lot of critters.  

Ok I did my part so you can't say I didn't try to help out.

[Anonymous]

Looks like it would work, and it would be even more agrivating if you played in a field of sligh since the sligh player can do pretty much nothing (sb anarchy possible but is possiblydead by then)
What about anvil of bogarden, that seemed like an interesting idea... I know urza_insane has it up there in his list...
Gotta love locking people down

[Project5]

Quote You can't respond to them paying the cost of tapping and sacrificing and you can't respond to the mana being added to the mana pool as it is still just paying a cost. The closest thing you can respond to is whatever they choose to do with the mana.

You can. Tapping and sacrificing may be part of the cost, but adding the mana occurs after the colon so it is an effect that can be responded to. From the oracle:

Text (ABU+errata): ,Sacrifice ~this~: Add three mana of any one color to your mana pool. [Oracle 2001/08/24]

Chanting someone in responce to the Lotus's activation is a good play, and forces them to be creative with the mana they receive. This trick also works with moxen if opponents accidently tap mana and then the mox.

--Ben

[Anonymous]

Ok I can see the anvil being interesting with 4 squee in hand, but since it occurs during your draw step you can't draw cards off it under the confinement since confinement makes you skip your draw step?   Seems like bad synergy...

though the anvil/squee engine seems pretty interesting and I have never seen anyone post it before.   Could be new tech?
2 squee in hand, with 2 anvils out means you draw 3 total cards and chuck the 2 squees, while your opponent draws 3 cards then has to pitch 2....   we could be onto something here.

[Gilthanas01]

Ok this isn't exactly a Parfait discussion anymore and I'm a little interested in the Solitary Confinement possibilities, so I'm going to weigh in with this piece of crap which addresses the draw engine problem just fine. Don't laugh, it could work:
        10 Plains
        3 Forest
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
        3 Serra Avatar
        1 Test of Endurance
        4 Argivian Find
        2 Ivory Tower
        4 Solitary Confinement
        2 Scroll Rack
        3 Land Tax
        4 Orim's Chant
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        4 Sterling Grove
        3 Replenish
        1 Words of Worship
        1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

With Argivian Find and Sterling Grove  you have plenty of tutoring to get the cards you'll need before dropping the Confinement. Bargain and Words of Worship should allow you to draw whatever you need, up to your whole deck if you wish (turn draws into life, life into cards when needed). It automatically protects it's draw engine with 2 Groves in play. Has the Chants and Plows for the early game, Replenish for control matchups, etc. Plus, it'll when a lot of games with Test of Endurance, which is so janky I just have to laugh......