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Author Topic: Primer: Beating Control with a Combo Deck  (Read 1954 times)
Anonymous
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« on: February 20, 2003, 12:12:13 am »

This primer is about one of my favorite decks in Type 1, Speed Worldgorger. DicemanX has written a very good primer about Dragon.dec but it did not address this version of the deck which I feel is far superior if played correctly. So here goes.

0.The Combo

For those of you who don't know the combo or the background of this deck you should first read Primer: Dragon Combo by dicemanX



1. Decklists

Worldgorger_Dragon.dec (by dicemanX)

2x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Aerial Caravan

3x Entomb
3x Buried Alive

3x Intuition
3x Cunning Wish
1x Read the Runes
1x Scrying Glass

4x Animate Dead
3x Dance of the Dead
-----------------------------
24 combo cards
        10 creature “buriers”
         7  animate effects
        11 win conditions

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Timetwister
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Ancestral Recall
-----------------------------
6 tutor/card drawing

1x Abeyance
3x Defense Grid
3x Mana Leak
-----------------------------
7 disruption


1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt

4x Underground Sea
4x Underground River
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Undiscovered Paradise
2x City of Brass
-----------------------------
24 mana sources


SB:

1x Stroke of Genius
1x Rushing River
1x Abeyance
3x Red Elemental Blast
4x Powder Keg
2x Verdant Force
1x Defense Grid
1x Read the Runes
1x Scrying Glass


This build focuses on trying to protect the combo as much as possible and then going off when you have established this protection. It tries to make sure control (Its main threat) will not be able to counter any part of the combo but sacrifices some speed and consistancy in doing so. In a combo deck, speed and consistancy make it easier to go off earlier and lower the number of poor hands, which makes this sacrifice a signifigant one. Usually goes off Turn 3 or 4.

Rating (out of 5)

Speed: 3

Protection: 3

Consistancy: 2

Overall: 2.7


Speed_Dragon.dec (by Roland Bode)

2x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Aerial Caravan

4x Entomb
3x Buried Alive

3x Intuition
3x Cunning Wish

4x Animate Dead
3x Dance of the Dead
4x Necromancy

-----------------------------
27 combo cards
        10 creature “buriers”
        11  animate effects
        12 win conditions

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Necropotence
1x Deep Analysis
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk (doesn't really fit elsewhere and you do get to draw on your next turn )
-----------------------------
6 tutor/card drawing

1x Abeyance
-----------------------------
1 disruption

4x Dark Ritual
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring

4x Gemstone Mine
3x Underground River
4x Underground Sea
4x Undiscovered Paradise
-----------------------------
26 mana sources


SB:

2x Abeyance
1x Blue Elemental Blast
4x Duress
1x Hoodwink
4x Hypnotic Specter
1x Mana Leak
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Whispers of the Muse

Kudos to Bode on this one, his strategy is to play enough threats that control simply gets overwhelmed. Main differences are the addition of Necromancy and Dark Ritual to improve both consistancy and speed. Usually goes off turn 2 or 3 and frequently goes off on turn 1. However there are still some inefficient card choices here.

-Necropotence is often uncastable without a Dark Ritual in hand
- 1 Abeyance is not worthy enough of running a shakey mana base with 4 Undiscovered Paradise
- Deep Analysis (which was put in to use extra Entombs) is often a dead card if drawn, excess Entombs can still be used to remove unwanted lands.
-The lack of Timetwister is pretty severe. Seven cards is far more useful than a nice trick to use Entombs on.


 Still this deck gave birth to the modern Speed Worldgorger Dragon.

Rating (out of 5)

Speed: 4

Protection: 1

Consistancy: 4

Overall: 3.0


Speed_Dragon.dec (by toast)

2x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Aerial Caravan

4x Entomb
3x Buried Alive

3x Intuition
4x Cunning Wish

4x Animate Dead
3x Dance of the Dead
4x Necromancy

-----------------------------
27 combo cards
        10 creature “buriers”
        11  animate effects
        13 win conditions

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Timetwister
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
-----------------------------
6 tutor/card drawing

4x Dark Ritual
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt

4x Gemstone Mine
2x Underground River
4x Underground Sea
4x Poluted Delta
-----------------------------
26 mana sources


SB:

1x Stroke of Genius
1x Abeyance
1x Kaervek's Torch
1x Capsize
1x Mana Leak
1x Brainstorm
1x Whispers of the Muse
4x Duress
4x Hypnotic Specter

In this final build for Speed Dragon the inefficiencies mentioned above in Bode's deck have been removed and the following cards have been added.
 
1x Cunning Wish (upping the count to 4),1x Mystical Tutor, 1x Timetwister, 1x Mana Crypt, 4x Polluted Delta.

This maximizes both the speed and consistancy possible in the deck by increasing its kill, stabilizing it's mana base, and using better card draw, but the major difference comes in the sideboard cards.

Kaervek's Torch was added to prevent some situations that would otherwise end in a draw (explained later), Capsize is also a superior card to Hoodwink (especially with infinite mana), and one of the most important yet overlooked cards Brainstorm was added.

Brainstorm has two main uses other than what it is normally used for.

- When you are going off and you draw into a caravan you can use this to put it back into your library so you can bury it and end the combo. (either by having a bury effect in your hand or by casting it, drawing your whole library, capsizing it, and then brainstorming).

- It is also useful in situations where your opponent is also playing a combo deck and ends up decking you first, you can brainstorm end of their turn and then deck them during your turn or even just draw out that last counter and then torch them during your upkeep by using Necromancy.

This build wins consistantly on turns 2 and 3 and wins slightly more frequently on turn 1 (and has a better chance against control)

Rating (out of 5)

Speed: 5

Protection: 0

Consistancy: 5

Overall: 3.3


2. The Basics[/u]

Now that we have an idea as to how the deck evolved we can begin to discuss how to play it. You should know the combo if you actually read the top half of this post so let us discuss important things to remember about it.

-If the only creature(s) in all graveyards is/are Worldgorger Dragon and you have no way of changing this (yes you are required to try) this is an infinite loop and the game will end in a draw. Only instants can be played during this loop and dealing leathal damage (via torch) will also end the game.

-If you draw a dragon but no bury effects you can always opt to go second, not play anything, and then discard it during your discard phase.

-If any situation occurs in which the dragon comes into play effect goes on the stack and then the dragon leaves play effect goes on the stack before it resolves, you will lose all of your permanents permanently. (commonly caused by a swords/edict on dragon in response to it coming into play or a disenchant on Animate dead in response to dragon coming into play)

YOUR TOP ENEMIES
1. Force of Will (the only thing that can stop you when you try to go off turn 1)
2. Swords (the most commonly played instant speed creature removal)
3. Any instant speed disenchant effect (for the reason above)

3.Strategies[/u]

The main thing that is missing in the ratings listed in section one is playstyle. Of the 3 builds I think the last one has the most room to become devastating if in the hands of the right player.

Important points to remember :

- you are running enough threats that it is ok to have your opponent counter when you are trying to go off, there is a very good chance that you will draw something that will allow you to go off again or draw something that will allow you to draw something that will allow you to go off.

-this combo does not have to be done all at once which is part of the reason why you can do the above

-few good decks in Type 1 run any cards that don't have an immediate use, Force of Will cripples your opponent almost as much/more than it cripples you.

-when in doubt force a draw (drawing is always better than losing)

GAME 1

Don't be shy, If you can go off Turn 1 DON'T HESITATE

-your opponent will not always have force of will in his/her opening hand, alot of what makes control good is your opponent never knows if you are going to counter his stuff, call the bluff, go off anyways.

-you are consistant enough that being stopped is not the end of the world

-going off Turn 1 scares the opponent, most likely he will keep/mully into a subpar hand game 2 just because it can stop you from going off turn 1 again.

-turn 1 kills look cool/ give you bragging rights.

game 1 you basically want to play sui and try to overwhelm/scare your opponent. This gives you a huge advantage for game 2 as your opponent will play very conservatively.

GAME 2 and 3

If you saw that your opponent was playing control side in the hippies and the duresses, if you saw whatever else your opponent may be playing side in whatever you see fit. Your playing style for this game can probably be less aggressive now that you know what your opponent is playing. If you went off turn one and didn't see a thing, pat yourself on the back and repeat the steps for game 1.

The Conclusion

I think that about covers it. If you have any questions feel free to post here, and if you like my work please recommend that I get an account here at themanadrain.com.

    
Peace out

    


-toast
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j_orlove
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2003, 10:38:05 am »

Quote
Quote yes you are required to try

Where did you get this from? Because whoever told you that is incorrect.
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Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2003, 06:23:46 pm »

Thanks for the imput, let's check the exact rules:

102.6 If the game somehow enters a "loop," repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don't result in a draw.

421.4. If the loop contains only mandatory actions, the game ends in a draw. (See rule 102.6.)

this really comes down to the definition of "no way to stop" one can argue that Entombing a creature is a way to stop. However it can also be argued that it means no way built into the loop to stop.

I honestly don't know, I'm not a judge. I also know that judges don't know everything, but a judge did rule in my case that I had to do everything in my power to stop the loop. At the same time I know from reading the boards that you generally know what you are talking about, so I am still undecided.

can anybody shed some light on this matter?
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Nova
Guest
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2003, 10:45:52 pm »

I have 2 minor issues:

Quote
Quote -If the only creature(s) in all graveyards is/are Worldgorger Dragon and you have no way of changing this (yes you are required to try) this is an infinite loop and the game will end in a draw. Only instants can be played during this loop and dealing leathal damage (via torch) will also end the game.

How do you cast torch while the infinite loops is going?  Isn't it a sorcery?

Quote
Quote -If you draw a dragon but no bury effects you can always opt to go second, not play anything, and then discard it during your discard phase.

Unless my rules knowledge is rusty, you choose to play or draw before seeing your hand  
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Anonymous
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2003, 11:26:31 pm »

Those are two very good catches, unfortunately I can't edit my posts. Replace torch with Volcanic Geyser (the tax ability on torch doesn't matter much considering you wish for it first, torch is just cooler to use   ) Also, the basic point of the second error you mentioned still is valid. If you have a dragon in your opening hand, you can hold out on playing cards so you can discard it if you don't have a bury effect.

By the way, after posting I realized that parts of this may be interpreted as an attack on Bode. This was not my intention, In my opinion Bode's build was ingenious, I was merely modifying it in an attempt to be more quick and consistant.


   

Thanks for the input!
   

-toast
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Nova
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2003, 11:54:02 pm »

If there must be an X-damage spell, I suggest Ghitu Fire.  That way you avoid the awkward RR in the casting cost of Volcanic Geyser.  Personally, I think that a direct damage spell isn't needed, but it's your deck  
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Andreas
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2003, 05:04:34 am »

In my opinion Wheel of Fortune is far superior to Timetwister in this deck. It can bury a dragon you have drawn and even more importantly it does not shuffle back into the deck all the Worldgorger Dragons and Aerial Caravans that you have gone to such great lengths to get into the graveyard in first place.

Still, I probably would play neither.

Also Necropotence is such a strong threat (and you have an around 50% chance to have either a Dark Ritual or the Black Lotus in your opening hand) that I would keep it in this deck. Goldfishing with Bode´s version has made that clear.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2003, 06:42:05 am »

Toast, that was a very well thought out write-up and analysis. Keep it up!
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2003, 07:36:21 am »

That's not a bad analysis. However, your synopsis contends that your build is more "consistent" and "fast" than the aforementioned builds. I think you need to explain exactly on what basis your deck is more consistent. Is it consistent because it consistently goes off faster than the other Dragon builds, or is it consistent because it generally wins more than the others? If your deck has a "protection" rating of 0, then that degrades its performance immensely in terms of consistency.

Furthermore, if the purpose of your argument is to propose a Dragon variant that is designed for a control-oriented metagame, then how can you justify a build with a "protection" rating of 0? The absolute worst approach to beating control is to try and resolve your combo in the early game. I guarantee you that it is a recipe for disaster. The reality is that the necessary elements for Dragon to beat control are cards such as Defense Grid, Duress, REB, Orim's Chant/Abeyance. The other legitimate option is to have a transformational sideboard with Hypnotic Specter and Phyrexian Negator as your win conditions.

You are definitely right, your build is faster than the other versions because it has a higher level of overall redundancy. However, I think you have either used the word "consistency" out of context or you have not clearly explained exactly what is more consistent about your deck.

Is it wise to sacrifice protection of the combo for added speed and redundancy? I vehemently disagree with this approach, and I have done a sufficient amount of playtesting with respect to this issue to warrant the inclusion of my opinion. If your goal is to win quickly, then your build will yield optimal results. To achieve a higher overall win percentage is a completely different approach (and this is what most players are after). From this perspective, your build has some shortcomings, especially against control.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2003, 10:16:04 am »

WOW!!! So many things to address!!

Nova: while ghitu fire is again a better card than volcanic geyser it is a sorcery meaning that I still can't search for it with cunning wish. Also remember that when the combo goes off I can get infinate mana of any color my permanents produce so the RR is negligable.

Andreas: while wheel of fortune has much better abilities for this deck than the twister, it has a casting cost with red in it I tried to minimize the maindeck cards that had anything other than B or U in their cost. So I would be able to ditch the undiscovered paridise for a more consistant mana base. I still think that a new hand for 3 mana still warrants being run even if it does shuffle your graveyard into your library. This card has helped me go off turn one on multiple occasions.

Zherbus: Thanks for the positive comment, and you keep up running the best vintage website on the internet!  

Shockwave: Very good questions...

yes, I suppose I was sort of using consistancy and redundancy as synonyms. My definition of consistancy in a combo deck is more hands that you can keep that will still allow you to pull of the combo relatively fast. Using this definition I increased consistancy by increasing the redundancy of the deck, stablizing the mana base, and minimizing off color card choices.

My main argument about how this can still beat control without any protection is that dragon combo is different from most combo in that it doesn't need a string of spells to go off. Once it has a dragon in the yard it has 11 different cards that will singlehandedly start up the combo and many more cards that will find them. Most control runs 8 counterspells very few run more than this number. I feel that protection decreases redundancy and redundancy is its own form of protection because it can allow you to overwhelm the opponent.

lets look at what going off turn 1 would do in a keeper match up:

Keeper loses instantly as does any other deck without its pitch counterspell, force of will.

If keeper has force of will and another blue card in hand then it will have lost 1 counterspell and one of the following.....

-another force of will
-mana drain
-misdirection
-braingeyser
-stroke
-ancestral recall
-time walk
-fact or fiction
-merchant scroll
-mystical tutor
-morphling

obviously some of these would be more preferable than others but still losing any of these cards hurts keeper against a deck that can go off with so few cards.

Also necromancy is key in the fact that it forces your opponent to tap out on his/her turn, leaving room for another spell to get through on your turn.

I understand that many people will be reluctant to say that this deck will do good against control but in my experiences, using my playing style, I have beaten respectable players playing respectable control decks often with this deck.

I hope this answers most of your questions but still keep 'em coming!

   
   
-toast
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iceman
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2003, 10:50:55 am »

How well can your deck compete? It really has no way of getting around counters or disruption in game 1 (unless you fetch a Duress with a Wish), and in game 2, how much are 4 Duress going to help. I'm also surprised you don't sideboard any Defense Grids, they are one of Dragon's best defense against counter. But otherwise, it was a well-written primer even though I find several points which I disagree with you on.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2003, 11:29:26 am »

Thanks iceman:

once again I can't emphasize enough the importance of trying to overwhelm your opponent as a way to stop control. While defense grid is a great card to protect the combo, hippie specter is another win condition and it keeps control at a heavy disadvantage. The main point of this post is to discuss a much more aggressive version of the combo, if you want protection stick with the 5 color dragon, there is plenty in that and it is also a good deck.

The reason why I think this deck is superior is simply that it does better in both the mirror and against most other combo. I think that if played in the above fashion its percentages against control are very similar which would make this a better tier deck (I cringe at the word tier but can not think of a replacement) Control is a bad matchup anyways, and in my experience, maindecking hate cards does not drastically improve the match up and ends up diluting the deck. In general, cards that would be dead in certain common match ups are what the sideboard was invented for, Type 1 is competitive enough that these cards are simply not worth running main deck.

By the way here is an explanation of why this deck is better against the mirror for those who are wondering....

-Goes off turn one more frequently

-Runs necromancy which allows it to go off in response to your opponent going off
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2003, 02:10:45 pm »

Quote
Quote My definition of consistancy in a combo deck is more hands that you can keep that will still allow you to pull of the combo relatively fast.
Quote
Quote lets look at what going off turn 1 would do in a keeper match up:

Let's not get too hypothetical. For the sake of brevity, this type of analysis is inconclusive and very arbitrary. You can't present a scenario which epitomizes the ideal draw for your deck; of course your results will be favourable.  

If you goldfish 100 draws, you will find this: Yes, you do have first turn kills more often than the less redundant builds. Yes, your version does go off a turn (or maybe even 2 turns faster). However, you can't overlook statistical fact: When you are playing against control, the odds of your opponent having a playable FOW in hand are much greater than the odds of you drawing into a first-turn kill.

Quote
Quote obviously some of these would be more preferable than others but still losing any of these cards hurts keeper against a deck that can go off with so few cards.

Just to clarify: If you attempt to go off on turn 1 and are foiled by a FOW, you are in much more dire straights than your opponent, especially against Keeper. Also keep in mind that because you have no disruption, a Diabolic Edict or Swords To Plowshares will send you directly into game 2.

It is for this reason that optimal Dragon builds (with respect to overall win percentages) pack disruption, generally in the form of maindeck Defense Grids. Have you ever resolved a first turn Grid against a control deck? If you have not, let me enlighten you on what happens:

a) Your Defense Grid turns into a Hymn To Tourach for a Force of Will and another blue card.

b) Your Grid resolves, and gives you *at least* 2 turns to set up comfortably, barring the scenario where your opponent is holding a handful of moxes and a few counterspells.

Quote
Quote Control is a bad matchup anyways, and in my experience, maindecking hate cards does not drastically improve the match up and ends up diluting the deck. In general, cards that would be dead in certain common match ups are what the sideboard was invented for, Type 1 is competitive enough that these cards are simply not worth running main deck.

If you read the Worldgorger thread, you'll come to understand the reasoning for running maindeck control "hate". The aggro matchup is so favourable that the drawback of having "dead" cards against aggro is negligible.

Let me present this question to you: Against aggro, does it really matter if you win on turn 3 or turn 1? The fastest of aggro decks crumble to Dragon, so speed is hardly an issue. Against control, you will not win consistently from first turn kills or "overwhelming" your opponent with animate effects. Because you pack no disruption, removal spells doom for you. Not 5 removal effects, not 10, just *1*.
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dicemanX
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2003, 04:25:11 pm »

First off, that was a very nicely written primer toast.

I have the following imput:

1. I think that you're being a bit hard in terms of the consistency and speed ratings of the control builds of WGDragon. I have been working on my version quite a bit, and I have found that the average goldfish kill is 3. The core differences between the control WGD and speed kill WGD are:

1. Using Dark Rituals for acceleration.
2. Beefing up your Animate effects (from 7 to 10-11).

This difference is not enough in my opinion to drop the consistency and speed ratings from a "5" to a "3" or "2". Those differences are greatly exaggerated. The control version is still lightning fast and very consistent, and it gets high marks for flexibility and disruption. It's goal is to attack control in two ways: 1) win quickly, or failing that 2) win the long game by stocking up on disruption/mass advantage cards like Grids. Speed WGD doesn't have the second option available, so it's even capable of losing to non-control decks that use the appropriate disruption spells. By the way, I've tested speed WGD decks, but I've always been dissatisfied with the results. That's why I prefer control versions.


Incidentally, there was already a discussion about speed WGD builds. You can find it here.

In the speed version posted in that thread, I go with Read the Runes over more Animate effects, to give me even more kill cards/creature buriers. However, as you and Bode mention, more Animate effects are superior vs control. Still, I'm not entirely sold on the philosophy that the way to battle control is through sheer speed. Furthermore, there is a critical mass of combo cards that is usually reached, beyond which you start seeing a drop in the  benefits of redundancy.

I also have a few things to add beyond what Shock Wave and others have said in this thread:

1. You should run a Verdant Force main. This is a total requirement without question. It gives you a potentially game winning two card combo against decks like mono-U, Suicide, and Ankh Sligh. With Rituals you can have a Verdant out on turn 1. The main point though is that you will not get randomly hosed by stuff like Ankhs, Edicts, Capsize etc.

2. You should think about running at least 1 Abeyance main in case of emergencies (while incorporating one fetchable Tundra into the mana base). A single Abeyance will be enough to hose any non-blue based disruption. You don't want to be losing vs things like Elvist Lyrist, Naturalize, StPs, Edicts, Seals of Cleansing etc.  game 1, or Tormod's Crypts game 2. Bode very wisely ran one in his build, and I never play a deck without an Abeyance MD and one in the SB. Non-blue based decks are usually aggressive, so it's not like you have a lot of time to tutor-chain up to a Cunning Wish for an answer. A MD Abeyance doesn't go against the deck's philosophy either, as you are devoting just one slot to disruption.

Incidentally: an Abeyance will single handedly shut down Parfait, something that the speed gorger deck would otherwise have a TON of trouble against. However, this requires running an Ambassador Laquatus if you want to win. A Caravan nets you a draw instead.


3. The SB could be improved in my opinion. You have 11 animate effects, so use them to your advantage and run Negators in the side, even along with Hypnotic Specters. You can very rapidly overwhelm control with quick Negators that just don't go away because of the Animate effects. A total of 7 creatures in my opinion is optimal.

You should also strongly consider Powder Keg. This card will single-handedly take care of the most splashable anti-Dragon card of all: Tormod's Crypt.

Here is what I would consider running in the side for a speed WGD deck:

1x Stroke of Genius
1x Read the Runes (completely superior to Whispers)
1x Rushing River
1x Abeyance
1x hard counter (FoW or Counterspell probably)

4x Negator
3x Hypnotic Specter

3x Powder Keg


These are my suggestions for improving the speed build. Beyond that, listen to Shock Wave. The man speaks the absolute truth. While Speed builds are *great* because they diversify the Dragon deck and opponents just never know what to expect, control builds are really the way to go if you want to be consistent against a diverse field.
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Anonymous
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2003, 09:14:28 pm »

Shock Wave: I personally, playing one of the best aggro decks out there (TnT), know that aggro has no chance against combo, I have tried everything from ReB, Blood Moon, Jester's Cap, and Sphere of Resistance to a main deck Orcish Settlers and nothing works (haven't tried anything with Zherbus's black build though). I have come to accept that my win percentages will be 5% at best while playing TnT against Combo. I expect to beat aggro hands down with Dragon.

What does see drastic % increases is the Mirror matchup and the other combo matchups which is why speed still does matter.

Also, I have had a much larger number of fast wins than people have been giving me credit for with the vast majority being second turn and the remainder a 60/40 split third turn/ first turn. (I dunno, maybe I'm Just horribly lucky and yes I have done alot of playtesting)

dicemanX: You definitely have some good suggestions...

- you could very well be correct about the ratings being a little harsh as it is difficult to rate other people's decks along with your own and stay completely objective. Also, a scale out of 5 involves alot of rounding.

-I think that our decks are simply different methods of battling control and each has its advantages and disadvantages.

-I can't bring my self to run abeyance as it is a little out of place and I am a firm hater of mana screw.

-verdant force is definately a good idea to run and is very useful in many situations, i will find a slot for it.

-most of your sideboard advice is good, however i still do want to retain the volcanic geyser and the brainstorm because they really do make the deck more versatile (and they are my secret toast tech)

I will post the modified build ASAP since I still can't modify the original until I am deamed worthy of member status    
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Anonymous
Guest
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2003, 09:27:20 pm »

Ok here is the modified build....


ToastGorgerDragon.dec[/u]

2x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Aerial Caravan
1x Verdant Force

4x Entomb
3x Buried Alive

3x Intuition
4x Cunning Wish

4x Animate Dead
3x Dance of the Dead
4x Necromancy

-----------------------------
27 combo cards
       10 creature “buriers”
       11  animate effects
       14 win conditions

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
-----------------------------
5 tutor/card drawing

4x Dark Ritual
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt

4x Gemstone Mine
2x Underground River
4x Underground Sea
4x Poluted Delta
-----------------------------
26 mana sources


SB:

1x Stroke of Genius
1x Vocanic Geyser
1x Capsize
1x Counterspell
1x Brainstorm
1x Read the Runes
2x Powder Keg
4x Phyrexian Negator
3x Hypnotic Specter

Out with the twister (bad synergy) in with the force... Sideboard is also much better.

Now that the force is with this deck I think it will do much better against the control of the dark side. (  Yay!!!, corny Star Wars reference!!!)

Please tell me what you think about the new build.

   
   

-toast
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Anonymous
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2003, 06:37:08 am »

Call me newbie, but shouldn't Dragon worry about planar void and crypt?

If it gets popular, there might be more of those around, and there are other reasons to pack them in the sideboard (TnT, anything w/ Replenish, ReapLace if it's viable).
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Anonymous
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2003, 09:21:01 am »

good question, they definately are annoying to say the least, very few decks run these hoser cards main, so 2 powder kegs in board are sufficient, this deck also has another maindeck trick to get around these cards....Necromancy.

Since both cards use the stack, you can wait until you have a Necromancy in hand and then bury the Dragon. The removal effect then goes on the stack and in response you can use Necromancy. This causes the infinate mana loop to happen so the removal effect never resolves until you end the loop at which point you should not care.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2003, 09:23:30 am »

Toast, please email me at Zherbus@themanadrain.com
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Team Meandeck: Because Noble Panther Decks Keeper
Toast
Guest
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2003, 09:57:09 pm »

now that I am a member (Thanks Zherbus!!!)  I have posted the continuation of this primer here
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