I have been sitting on this decklist for some time, but u...

[Luskan]

Being a budget player and not having access to the P10, LoA is not an option for me.  The Library and the Mox can become Islands, which help smooth out the mana base.  The Ancestral and the Time Walk require a little more though.  With the fetch lands, Brainstorm seems like a good replacement for the Ancestral.
I was going to put Psionic Blast in for Time Walk, mainly because it's extra damage (that and I finally got my first one   ).  Other cards to consider:

Stifle - I see this more as a sideboard card
Misdirection #2 - depends more on your meta
Voidmage #4 - more damage / counters
Fire/Ice - tapping their only attacking creature is a mini time walk

Any other suggestions?  I would narrow down my meta, problem is I haven't played for a few months so I have no idea (T1 is only once a month here   )

[Jacob Orlove]

Stifle is an excellent MD option, since you can use it to counter a fetchland, depriving them of valuable mana. It's like an instant sinkhole for U that does other cool things too. If you have room, running them MD is a good idea.

[Mellow D]

For the unpowered version, Stifle and Psionic Blast should find their way in your deck.  Does your meta contain Moxen?  If not, Null Rod may not be necessary either.

[GoogleBoots]

FTW- in the tourney, did you run the list you posted in the original thread? If not, what did you change?

[Luskan]

Quote (Mellow D @ Sep. 16 2003,20:31)For the unpowered version, Stifle and Psionic Blast should find their way in your deck.  Does your meta contain Moxen?  If not, Null Rod may not be necessary either.

There's enough power to warrant their inclusion MD, and they can be sided out game 2 as necessary.  I was going to use 3 MD, none SB.  Stifle seems to be the way to go, there are so many things it can stop it's not funny.  1 MD, 2 SB?  That way I can keep the Psi Blast MD as well.

[NotSoFat2u]

I've been playing with this list for close to 2 months now, and I think it is very solid.

I have yet to test stifle extensively, but I think it is very important MD, just to hit fetchlands.  The other things it does are just gravy.

Lavamancer is amazing.  There is nothing he can't do.  The fact that he is sacable to Kai is just gravy.

Kai is very clunky.  Early he really is nothing more than a 2/1 for 2 (or 2/2 for 3 when you are staring down a Masticore...).  It's when you get into the late game that he really shines.  He has been the difference between winning and losing for me in many games.

Spiketail is Time Walk's 2-5 in this deck.  Try playing against it to see just how true that is.

Daze is nice, and fits with the other pieces well.  MisD I don't think is necesary; maybe as a sideboard card.  I am testing a Stifle in that spot.  And anyway, you start playing gay cards and ppl assume you have MisD's in your deck.

I hate LoA in this deck.  Either I get it early, in which case I don't want to play/use it because I want to be laying threats to draw cards, or I get it late.  If I get it late and I have 7 cards in hand, I don't need it because I'm winning.  If I don't have 7 cards in hand, well, I guess it still turns sideways, sorta.  Sure, it's nice against controll, but I don't feel that the matchup is bad, anyway.

And yes, this deck beats an un-prepared Hulk deck.

**Edited for gayness content**

[GoogleBoots]

Hello all, I've been testing this for about 3 weeks, and ran it in the Lincoln T1 tourney this past Saturday. The only test I had was against The Shining(went something like 3-4), Bg Sui(went 132419-no losses) and Hulk(Less than vs Sui, but still no losses) without SB. I went to the tourney expecting to do horribly, due to the fact that Deed and Pyroclasm(when well placed) would own my deck. Much to my delight, however, I rode the deck to a first seat finish after 5 rounds with a 4-0-1 record, taking out 3 Hulks, and drawing to one, along the way.

Round one-Nick- Hulk. I think, "Oh crap, it's the 'best deck in the format'" We play game one, which goes unusually long, due to his MD Deed(WHO DOES SUCH A SAVAGE THING?!?!) but I take it. My SB of 4 REB 4 Crypt, as well as him digging for counters, takes game 2.

Round two-Chris A- MonoU Fish. Knowing a resolved Grim would win the game, I play with confidence. I lose game one due to my getting 1 Volc Wasted turn 1, one removed with Thief, a 3rd Wasted later that game, I had a grim and nothing to do with it.
G2- I go turn 1 Mox, land, Kai. He goes turn 1 Conclave-go. I go turn 2, waste Conclave Double Curiousity my Kai, swing. From there on out I worried about keeping his guys from stopping my 2/1 wrecking ball as I pwned the board with drawing nearly all but 10 cards of my library.
G3- I don't remember much, but I won...I think this is the game where I topdecked like jesus, getting Waste after Waste when I needed them.

-Somewhere in those games he was struggling with land, finds a 2nd, goes Cloud, Cloud Standstill, to which I respond with Fire, killing his guys...thought that was an awesome play of ness

Round 3-Kerz's Hulk. This round I not only dread because there's been a curse that has forbidden UCB to beat Team RI, AND he was playing Hulk. We go at it, I waste one land, waste 2 lands, he sees none for 3 turns after while I'm gaining serious advantage, he 'cedes.
Game 2- He gets turn 1 Duress I show Mox, Rod, Standstill for targets. Takes Rod(I think) and passes. I TD Ancestral and he gets pissed at how that was the best TD evar(which I agree) and he pretty much takes another rough start as I gain advantage again, to which he scoops again.

Round 4- Andy Stokinger...Hulk....This is the only match that upset me a bit. There were like 5 of us at 3-0, and Mike D at 2-1. If all the 3-0s IDed, we'd make it into T8 with 3-0-2. Andy was continuously trying to make me draw, saying how I'd lose horribly. However, after seeing the deck's performance so far, I could easily lose round 4, then win round 5 and go 4-1. I decide to play. Game one he wins, and I have bad thoughts about the match.
-Game 2 I go to the savage SB (Props to Justin for suggesting the removal of the 2 Pyroclasms and adding 4th Blast and 4th Crypt) as does he. He and Chris Leather are talking up the 'SB goodies' that he had in store for me, and they were saying like, "Should I show him now? I want to see the look on his face" "No, don't, it'll be better in round" Now, I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing that this 'goodies' were pyroclasms, and he used one to take out one Cloud of Faeries. Apparently he played something bad in this game and I win.
-Game 3- He has the same poor attitude, but I eventually win. I offer the handshake as a "Good game" sort of thing, and not only does he not shake my hand but he goes on to rant about how bad it is to offer a handshake if it isn't a 'good game'. The way I see it, is if I played you, I valued the effort put forth, regardless of your overconfidence, and I congradulate you for getting this far. He goes on to lose his round 5 match and misses T8.

Round 5- ChrisL- Hulk- This would make 4 Hulks in 5 Rounds. He wants to draw to make T8, and I don't have a problem, but I make him play 2 games before I confirm the draw (it was about to be 1-1, one turn away)

Round 1 T8- J. Orlove- MUD-  Already knowing I had the worst match in the world due to my lonely 2 Energy Flux in the SB( wasn't expecting many Workshops...nevermind getting paired against them) I lose 0-2, partially because of some off-SBing, and then one particular mistake(which I doubt had much importance in the game)

Overall the deck did WAY better than I expected, no matter how highly it was talked up. I wish I could see a future with this deck, but I honestly don't know how it will be affected my Mirrodin(I'm never good at judging these things). And for the record, Deed was never a problem to play against, no matter how much I feared it.

[Misemaster]

could i se the list you ran at the tourny? i was going to run it as well but i had to attened a cross county meet in NY. I am espically intrested in the sideboard.

[GoogleBoots]

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Voidmage Prodigy

4 FoW
1 MisD
3 Daze
4 Standstill
4 Curiosity
3 Null Rod
1 Ancestral
1 Time Walk

4 Mishra's Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
5 Strips
1 LoA
1 Sapph
4 Delta
1 Strand
2 Island
4 Volcanic Island

SB:
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 REB
3 BEB
2 Fire/Ice
2 Energy Flux

[jazzy kat]

Maybe I am on crack but my guess at PTW's uber sexy secret tech were stifles, or terferi's responses(stifle my sac for one blue mana...the price is wrong bitch, I counter that and draw a card).

But who knows, he is a  

[jazzy kat]

PTW we need a primer (please), but only if you feel that this build requires a significant departure in play skills from the mono blue fishies.

[Pest]

yeah, I love this deck...and Andy Stokenger is a fag for not shaking hands with you Chris. You should have punched him in the face for being such a Douche. and for those of you who are wondering...Mirroden will not make this deck any worse than it is now. If anything, it'll help it out.

[Soulfly]

I've wondered too, things as Rack and Ruin & Gorilla Shaman would be my best bets so far.
Lets hope he will reveal sooner or later

I placed 9th in a 32-man tourney in Denmark with PTW´s laters build, it was quite a tough field, we counted about 15 lotusses and 76 moxes.
My sideboard looked like this:
4x Annul
2x Energy Flux
2x Arcane LAboratory
1x Null Rod
3x BEB
3x Fire/Ice

Lots and lots of artifact/mox hate, and it was worth it! No less than 5 Welder Mud, quite alot of combo and Hulk aswell, so it seemed like a good day to play Gay/r.
My day went like this:

Round 1: Hulk, piloted by one of Denmarks top seated players, still no match for Gay/r though   2-0

Round 2: Welder MUD, in the first game he didnt get a foot to the ground, in game 2 i didnt. In game three i saw a hand with null rod, 2 lands, energy flux and some random creatures. I beemed and went land-go. unfortunately he went sphere-go, and the same next turn, damn! 1-2

Round 3: Keeper, with trenches and morphling for the kill, both games went excactly as they should. 2-0

Round 4: Reanimator, *sigh* first game he gets out a hasted nicol bolas first turn, ouch, and follows it up with an arcanis next turn. Game 2 i get the curiosity engine up and going and counter all his threats. Game 3 takes about 40 minutes and ends up being a draw, his side of the board full of reanimated gays and mine with 3 manlands. 1-1

Round 5: Mono u fish, Wee finally, this guy had been saying bad things about everything in this build all day and it felt good to give him a good beating. 2-1

3-1-1 is allright i think, i will however try to improve in the next big tournament in Denmark, which we hope will be around 75 attenders.

-Soulfly

[Tijnie]

What would be the best hits to replace the power in this deck?? Right now, I'm thinking of +2 Islands (-LoA and Mox S.) +1 Daze +1 MisD (- Walk and -Recall). Would that be right or are there better hits?.


EDIT: What would be better in (this) Fish deck, Chalice or Nill Rod?..

[Tripps]

Quote (Phantom Tape Worm @ Sep. 14 2003,23:27)Right now, I can't even go into all the faggoty goodness that this deck packs.  Suffice to say though, this deck is a total sex pot and if you can't see that just by looking at it, you need to seriously re-evaluate your sexual orientation.

Best quote ever.

Could this deck gain from chalice(replacing rod maybe?) and the equipment Mask of memory(over maybe curiosity, very good with all t3h saccing)

[Chaos Blade]

With Mirriodin out, what do you think this deck will look like and how will it change? Im very anixous to see this deck in performance.

[JHaverkamp]

Quote (Chaos Blade @ Oct. 26 2003,16:09)With Mirriodin out, what do you think this deck will look like and how will it change? Im very anixous to see this deck in performance.

The biggest change i've seen is the addition of gorilla shaman to the SB to deal with opposing chalices, maybe even MD, still not sure.  Chalice hasn't been very good in the deck in my testing, because the most probable card to replace, null rod also shuts down too many cards that hose fish, like masticore and cursed scroll that chalice doesn't.
Also keeper should be top again, which is good, because it is a good matchup for us.

EDIT: Stupid typos

[Tripps]

I put masks in place of curiousity, chalices in place of null rod, and stifles in place of mis d and mox sapphire.

I was thinking about shaman in board, but I don't know if thats over doing it on critters. MY board curently has fire ice, rack and ruin, flux, arcane lab, and reb

[Phantom Tape Worm]

Second tourney with Gay/r, second victory.  Gay/r swept the Va state t1 side event this weekend with the venerable Phantom Tape Worm at the helm.  The main decklist remained the same as last time but the board had to change to reflect what i expected to see.

Here's the list:

//NAME: Gay/r
// Creatures
        4 Grim Lavamancer
        4 Cloud of Faeries
        4 Spiketail Hatchling
        3 Voidmage Prodigy
// Spells
        4 Curiosity
        4 Standstill
        4 Force of Will
        1 Misdirection
        3 Daze
        1 Time Walk
        1 Ancestral Recall
        3 Null Rod
// Mana
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Strip Mine
        4 Wasteland
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Polluted Delta
        4 Flooded Strand
        4 Volcanic Island
        2 Island
        4 Mishra's Factory
        2 Faerie Conclave
SB:  1 Pyroclasm
SB:  1 Fire/Ice
SB:  1 Boomerang
SB:  1 Stifle
SB:  1 Null Rod
SB:  1 Chalice of the Void
SB:  1 Blue Elemental Blast
SB:  1 Red Elemental Blast
SB:  3 Maze of Ith
SB:  2 Energy Flux
SB:  2 Rack and Ruin

You'll notice immediately that there are no wishes to somehow justify all the one ofs in the board.

What?  Oh, i guess you expecting some kind of explanation for that?  Well, i find boarding in this manner gives me the most flexability, i think i may have gone over this before somewhere...i'll just quote myself from an old thread rather than rehash things i've talked about:

Quote Fish draws a lot of cards throughout the course of a normal game.  Typically you will go through approximately half of your deck.  This makes 2 ofs in the sideboard seem like 4 ofs.  If you are used to making aggro sideboards where you only expect to see 15 cards during the course of a game than i could easily understand how you would make this mistake.  I have testicles each the size of a small childs head, so i go down to 1 ofs occasionally on the board.  Additionally, the ability to say no, ie counterspelling, is one of fish's strengths over other aggressive strategies.  This ability in theory gives you an answer to anything, so you don't have to rely soley on getting your sideboard card to save you.  Thus, you aren't running as great a risk as you make it sound by running my boarding philosophy.  Though I will say it is perfectly valid not to board as i do, remember i do have trouble walking sometimes and my pants never do fit right around the crotch.

So the big question is: what happens to Gay/r now that mirrodin is legal?  Well, you're looking at the answer.  For now next to nothing.  Only in workshop decks does chalice present a real problem (keeper without balance or manadrains is not scary, and remember they still have to a) have enough mana to resolve a chalice for 2 and b) resolve said chalice).  And since the board should change based on what is expected at a given tournament, there should be no worries as you can easily hate out workshop based decks with the inclusion of red.

[Thissa]

...

This is the sexiest deck ive ever seen.

i really like the build... Fish gets an insane amount of cards in yard so the lavamancer just looks totally sick.

awesome job on the design of this...

[patgas]

Quote (Phantom Tape Worm @ Oct. 26 2003,20:58)Second tourney with Gay/r, second victory.  Gay/r swept the Va state t1 side event this weekend with the venerable Phantom Tape Worm at the helm.

I watched you play for a few minutes. If I had realized who you were, I probably would have kissed ass/asked questions. I spent most of the time debating with my friends about a good low-power deck that I can sneak in with 5 proxies (as opposed to wMUD with about 45 proxies). I really like this deck and I want to give it a try, so I second the call for a primer.

[Pest]

greatest thing about this deck is that it isn't too well known and isn't expected too much in today's meta. And ppl who do have a deck such as gay Red or Fish in their meta just kind of shrug it off and don't waste time SBing against it. If PTW is to start a Primer on a deck like this, the chances are most every budget player, and even some non-budget players will be persuaded to play this, and it will be very expected. Making any type of Fish Varients not nearly as effective as they are today. A Primer is definately not in need and if you have any questions about this deck, just ask him. Why do you think he started this thread in the first place? Making a primer on a deck like this is not essential...and it is obvious that he has done alot of testing and has been doing well with this deck in an exceptionally strong environment. A Primer basically goes through card-by-card explanations on the decks and their alternatives...Gay Red does not need such things and it is pretty obvious that each of these cards work together and this whole deck is a giant pile of Synargy in a bottle. I don't think any further explanation on the deck is necessary...and a thread like this one is definately enough to get the point of the deck through. Although your desire for a primer is admirable, its just simply not needed right now.

[Tanadan]

There is a primer and an update; both are located in the Extreme Vintage Forum and are just as relevant as ever.

Jip-Jip-a-Jip al'Jip-du-Jip: Congratulations! It's a shame though: alpha power > italian legends boosters. Also, any chance of a mini-tournament report like last time? Just who and what you played in the sanctioned matches would be awesome.

How long until Standstill is restricted?

[Chaos Blade]

God damn this deck is such a sexy biatch...... Do you guys think Gorillas in the board could be good? God this deck seems soo powerful.

 Cocngrads on the win

[Jakedasnake]

Quote God damn this deck is such a sexy biatch...... Do you guys think Gorillas in the board could be good? God this deck seems soo powerful.

Cocngrads on the win

You know what makes a post easy to read? SPELLING. I really hope you were trying to say the.

Anway, this deck is pretty cool. I didn't want to read through the whole topic, so let me just say that Voidmage Prodigy seems kinda outa place. Most of the time you will be laying threats, and depending on pitch counters for tempo and control.

My $.02

[Chaos Blade]

I think I know how to spell... and yes it was the... so sad when a person goes crazy over 1 or 2  words not spelled right.. try fasting for once.

 On Voidmage, its an awesome control card... it makes the Long.Dec matchup alot more easier.

[Tripps]

Quote (Chaos Blade @ Oct. 27 2003,14:30)more easier.

Grammar? =P I only did that because of the two posts above.

I have been testing this deck, and I want to let people know, that yes, Voidmage IS good in here. I think this version is better than mono-u fish. The mana base is actualy a LOT more stable than it looks, give it a whirl on apprentice.

[Chaos Blade]

The manabase is more resilent IT SEEMS with fetchlands.. I dont know though really.. its for you ro decide.

[Chaos Blade]

Well sorry for double posting, but what do you concieve the Keeper and Hulk matches post Chalice. How do you guys play against Long?

[TutoreIlluminato]

Testing results against Chalice???