MaRo on VintageI think he did a decent job of editing his...

[Crater Hellion]

Only goblins came out of Onslaught? What about slide, elves, that mediocre Dragon deck, Bidding, cemetery decks, beasts, and to some extent cleric based decks?

[jhaggs]

Quote Only goblins came out of Onslaught?

So did fetchlands....which was huge.

[Crater Hellion]

yeah, but unfortunately hat was talking about t2 archetypes, not cards.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Quote (jpmeyer @ Dec. 15 2003,16:58)I told Maro in my email not to listen to Type 1 players.

Sadly this is the best advice he could receive.

R&D > every damn one of us and/or most of us combined

[Moxlotus]

Right on! R&D owns us all!!!

Mind's Desire, Tolarian Academy, and Yawgmoth's Will 4L!!!! We know what isn't broken enough to print...

[RidiculousHat]

Quote (Crater Hellion @ Dec. 15 2003,19:40)yeah, but unfortunately hat was talking about t2 archetypes, not cards.

Uh, actually I was talking about type 1 archetypes, considering that this is a type 1 thread and we're having an argument over what archetypes were created by Onslaught/Mirrodin in type 1.

Quote So did fetchlands....which was huge.

That is true, but I will go so far as to say that the fetchlands were the only major influential cards out of that set.  Mirrodin had quite a few more.  If anyone can find other cards, please remind me-- I may just be forgetting something here.

[Goose]

Quote (BrokenDeck @ Dec. 15 2003,15:55)Imagine if they just printed a couple of cards like this:

3G
Sorcery
Destroy all non-basic lands.

My friend, there is Ruination from Stronghold.  But when was the last time you saw that played in a T1 tourney?  Well, a large-scale T1 tourney. lol

Yes, there are numerous cards in this game that could have some benefit by playing them when you look at things "on paper".  Shatterstorm and Ruination are in the same boat in a way.  They seem good on paper, but actual playtesting may tell you different.

This does bring up something interesting.  If there is something wrong with T1, odds are that it won't just go away by printing new cards or restricting other cards to "balance things".  They are just temporary solutions.  Taking that into consideration, T1 is actually doing well at the moment.  Many of us are evaluating and analyzing each others ideas as opposed to trying to solve some universal problem (like back in urza saga...).  T1 is just fine.  The new set is months away.  There is no reason why things should profoundly change.  We just need to brace what is in the near future.

[Traveler]

The Onslaught block brought us the wonderful storm mechanic.  Long.dec and TPS exist in part because of Onslaught block.  The block has provided many great support cards as opposed to archetypes.  Pyrostatic pillar, stifle, and especially the fetch lands have all changed type 1.

I think it takes an effort on the part of type 1 players to explore new cards on their own.  Cards don't have to scream 'I was made for type 1' to be good in type 1.  Psychatog was not considered a serious card at first and now it is arguably the best creature in Magic over morphling.  Players are better now at looking at new cards than they used to, but it is lazy to want type 1 specific cards to be printed.