With the introduction of Mirrodin, I think sligh might be...

[lilmidget]

With the introduction of Mirrodin, I think sligh might be able to make a recovery in Type 1 after all these years. After the January restrictions, Long.dec will be gone, leaving room for other decks to shine.

Here's my deck post-January restrictions:

Creatures:
  4x Mox Monkey
  4x Jackal Pup
  4x Slith Firewalker

Burn:
  4x Incinerate
  4x Lightning Bolt
  4x Price of Progress
  4x Shrapnel Blast

Utility:
  1x Black Vise
  4x Fire/Ice
  1x Fork
  4x Isochron Scepter
  1x Wheel of Fortune

Land:
  4x Great Furnace
  3x Mountain
  1x Strip Mine
  4x Wasteland
  3x Wooded Foothills
  1x Volcanic Island

Artifact Mana:
  1x Black Lotus
  1x Chrome Mox
  1x Lotus Petal
  1x Mox Ruby
  1x Sol Ring

Sideboard:
  4x Pyrostatic Pillar
  4x Rack and Ruin
  4x REB
  3x Tormod's Crypt

Slith Firewalker is the new Jackal Pup. Mox monkey now has another mox to eat. Shrapnel Blast and Isochron Scepter give sligh the boost it so sorely needs.

The thing I like about this deck is that I never seem to get a "bad" hand. I've found that I rarely seem to ever mulligan. The only occasions are when I open with one mana source. Basically any hand I get with at least two mana sources is optimal.

So there it is. I welcome any criticisms or questions, but would like to hear from experienced sligh players if possible.

[Smash]

I dunno how good shrap is. I would personally rather run a nice manabase with basic mountains + 5 strips.... I would fill the shrap spot with PoP. Same mana, usually more damage, and a great scepter target.

I played similar (-shrap, -firewalker, +PoP, + Jackal Pup) and an all mountain firebase... it did really good in 1.5 which is unusual for sligh.


I even found ball was doing pretty good

[Jakedasnake]

I really don't understand why these builds don't run Ancestral Recall or Time Walk. They just seem to fit perfectly. Help me out with this.

[Smash]

Quote (Jakedasnake @ Dec. 12 2003,02:05)I really don't understand why these builds don't run Ancestral Recall or Time Walk. They just seem to fit perfectly. Help me out with this.

Most of the sligh players in the world are unpowered.

If I ran t1 sligh with the ugly manabase, I would probably splash blue.

[Jakedasnake]

I was thinking he probably wasn't because he had a Black Lotus and Mox Ruby in his build.

With Great Furnace, your mana base becomes weaker to non-basic hate, which is one of Sligh's strong points. Weakening your mana base this much for Shrapnel Blast seems pointless.

[BreathWeapon]

Splashing Blue for a couple of broken cards isn't worth the trouble. Timewalk and Ancestral are good cards, sure enough, but having to deal with the opponents Strip/Waste Lands and Stifles is a big hassle. LD is fast enough for this format again, so we can't afford to be "lazy" with our manabases any more. Now, if you were splashing Blue for Sideboard options ... say Hurkyl's Recall, than I could be more inclined to take a few risks with my manabase. The ability to cantrip Fire/Ice for a card could be useful. I might be tempted to Splash Blue just for 4 MD Stifles, that would be some good. Stifle Sligh ... hmm.
The bad synergy with PoP is an issue tho', a big one when you consider he wants to Imprint that sucker.

That said, the list for Iso-Sligh looks good, but I think Iso-Sligh has some inherent problems with it. Unlike control, who will have the Mana sitting around to cast a Scepter and use it in the same turn, you have a good chance of getting 2 for 1nd vs Artifact Removal. Your also pumping your average CC towards 2, which increases the effectiveness of Manadrain and makes your kills slower on average. I don't know if these problems are easily overcome ... although I like the idea of a Sceptered Fire/Ice a lot in Sligh.

I just don't know if Sligh has anything to offer over Goblins, who are better suited for the format as an Artifact Hate deck.

[lilmidget]

Quote (BreathWeapon @ Dec. 12 2003,13:18)Splashing Blue for a couple of broken cards isn't worth the trouble. Timewalk and Ancestral are good cards, sure enough, but having to deal with the opponents Strip/Waste Lands and Stifles is a big hassle. LD is fast enough for this format again, so we can't afford to be "lazy" with our manabases any more. Now, if you were splashing Blue for Sideboard options ... say Hurkyl's Recall, than I could be more inclined to take a few risks with my manabase. The ability to cantrip Fire/Ice for a card could be useful. I might be tempted to Splash Blue just for 4 MD Stifles, that would be some good. Stifle Sligh ... hmm.
The bad synergy with PoP is an issue tho', a big one when you consider he wants to Imprint that sucker.

That said, the list for Iso-Sligh looks good, but I think Iso-Sligh has some inherent problems with it. Unlike control, who will have the Mana sitting around to cast a Scepter and use it in the same turn, you have a good chance of getting 2 for 1nd vs Artifact Removal. Your also pumping your average CC towards 2, which increases the effectiveness of Manadrain and makes your kills slower on average. I don't know if these problems are easily overcome ... although I like the idea of a Sceptered Fire/Ice a lot in Sligh.

I just don't know if Sligh has anything to offer over Goblins, who are better suited for the format as an Artifact Hate deck.

I agree with BreathWeapon. Fire/Ice is acceptable as you can still use Fire if you don't have any blue mana, but anymore blue cards will change the mana base which is one of sligh's strengths. Stifle, Ancestral, and Timewalk are very useful in situations, but it isn't as much of a game winning card as Price of Progress has proven to be.

Sligh needs to move up it's average cc. Pre-Mirrodin, most spells would have 1cc, but with the intro of Chalice, having as many or more spells that are 2 mana has become the new standard.

Though goblins have become the popular choice for many, it isnt really as consistent as most believe it to be. A Moat or a perfectly-timed Balance can mean game against Goblins. It is too creature-dependant to be effective in Type 1.

[Smash]

Did you see the gencon results? Blue IS usually worth the splash

[Flurp™]

Blue is worth the splash in goblins, they just make better use of the blue power, in regular sligh I dont think its worth the bad mana base.

[lilmidget]

Quote (Flurp™ @ Dec. 12 2003,18:34)Blue is worth the splash in goblins, they just make better use of the blue power, in regular sligh I dont think its worth the bad mana base.

That's true. For Goblins, you play a bunch of creatures, Time Walk, then attack for the win next turn. IsoSligh doesn't use that technique.

On another note, another card I want to consider is Mishra's Factory. I know it's horrible and it'll hurt the mana base even more, but I feel that it's needed.  I've had to scoop too many times when my opponent throws down a CoP: Red. Anarchy just costs too much to be effective and is the perfect mana drain target. Factory could possibly have a spot in the sideboard perhaps?

[Smash]

Quote (lilmidget @ Dec. 12 2003,21:41)

Quote (Flurp™ @ Dec. 12 2003,18:34)Blue is worth the splash in goblins, they just make better use of the blue power, in regular sligh I dont think its worth the bad mana base.

That's true. For Goblins, you play a bunch of creatures, Time Walk, then attack for the win next turn. IsoSligh doesn't use that technique.

On another note, another card I want to consider is Mishra's Factory. I know it's horrible and it'll hurt the mana base even more, but I feel that it's needed.  I've had to scoop too many times when my opponent throws down a CoP: Red. Anarchy just costs too much to be effective and is the perfect mana drain target. Factory could possibly have a spot in the sideboard perhaps?

Try flaring pain. Flashback is tech.

[Meddling Mage]

I really don't think changing the mana base around to add blue is a great idea with sligh, so many decks are running 4 wasteland and a strip mine which are going to be just itching to kill your one volcanic and your great furnaces, having one non basic land in your deck for every one strip effect land in your opponents is probably not a great idea. Also, what about blood moon in sb? It's been a while since I played sligh, but back then it was a staple. Also, why run incinerate over Chain Lightning?

[lilmidget]

Quote (Meddling Mage @ Dec. 13 2003,01:35)I really don't think changing the mana base around to add blue is a great idea with sligh, so many decks are running 4 wasteland and a strip mine which are going to be just itching to kill your one volcanic and your great furnaces, having one non basic land in your deck for every one strip effect land in your opponents is probably not a great idea. Also, what about blood moon in sb? It's been a while since I played sligh, but back then it was a staple. Also, why run incinerate over Chain Lightning?

If an opponent tries to waste a great furnace, you could always sacrifice them in response to the shrapnel blast anyway. The single volcanic island is not a problem since you're not splashing heavily into blue. It is only needed for when you play ice without scepter, so a losing it will not be too much of a setback.

Incinerate is used over over chain lightning for a few reasons:
1) It's an instant, allowing you to leave mana open during your turn
2) It has synergy with isochron scepter
3) Castable if an opponent throws down a tangle wire
4) Castable against Orim's Chant/Abeyance
5) Against Keeper or other decks, they can pay RR to send the chain lightning back to you or your creatures

Blood moon is a tough call. Running so many nonbasics yourself doesnt make it as great. However, I'm confused as to the rules on blood moon. I heard that with blood moon in play, nonbasics will still count as nonbasics, meaning you could still play PoP. I don't know its interaction with artifact lands though. Do they still count as artifact lands or just mountains? If they do, they can still be used to sacrifice for shrapnel blasts. Can someone find that out in the rules or anything?

[Smash]

Text (8th): Nonbasic lands are Mountains.


It is quite literal. It is a mountian in every way. So, a POP will do no damage with a blood moon out.

[lilmidget]

Quote (Smash @ Dec. 14 2003,00:11)Text (8th): Nonbasic lands are Mountains.


It is quite literal. It is a mountian in every way. So, a POP will do no damage with a blood moon out.

Actually I guess I was right. I looked it up at MagictheGathering.com and apparently it does stay non-basic.

Quote Q: What is the interaction between Artifact Lands such as Seat of the Synod and Blood Moon? The lands obviously only produce red mana, but do their types become: "Basic Land - Mountain" or "Artifact Land - Mountain" (which would, logistically, maintain their usage for Shrapnel Blast, Affinity, etc)? -- Mitchell Okun

A:Blood Moon only changes the land type of the land, but it doesn't affect the land's name, its status as an artifact, or the fact that its nonbasic. The land would be an "Artifact Land - Mountain" named Seat of the Synod, and can only tap for red mana. It still counts for affinity, and can be sacrificed to Shrapnel Blast. You can also destroy it with Wasteland.

So I guess it would work out well. You can still sacrifice it to shrapnel blast or PoP for the win. In light of this new discovery, I think it would make a fine addition to the sideboard.

[Jakedasnake]

I remember reading that in a tourny report, and it just struck me as stupid. The card doesn't really do as it says. Anyway...

I still don't understand what you don't gain from adding in Time Walk and Ancestral Recall. Explain?

[lilmidget]

Quote (Jakedasnake @ Dec. 14 2003,02:57)I still don't understand what you don't gain from adding in Time Walk and Ancestral Recall. Explain?

It's not that the cards are bad or anything, it's just not that worth it in this situation. Adding more blue cards means adding more volcanic islands. And like Meddling Mage said, more and more decks are running wastelands. If they don't, then there's also the fact that you'll be killing yourself when you play PoP. Plus, they are dead cards in your hand if you don't have a blue mana source. At least with fire/ice, you can play fire if you don't have blue mana.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I would just ditch the blue mana altogether and only play Ice via Scepter. -3 Wooded Foothills, -1 Volcanic Island, +4 Mountain.

Mountains are awesome.

I hate Chrome Mox in this deck. If there's no Scepter it makes it way too easy to run out of steam. Fork also looks odd. I've never liked a card that makes my topdecks less likely to randomly win games. Black Vise is rarely if ever good. Now more than ever control empties its hand really fast, so it simply won't reliably deal damage. It especially sucks when you've gone into topdeck mode after they Balance the first couple of threats.

As long as we're throwing caution to the winds by PoPing in a deck with nine nonbasics, Shrapnel Blasting, and Imprinting, I would cut the Chrome, Fork, and Vise for a Mountain and two Fireblast. Random Fireblast wins are tech.

[lilmidget]

Quote (Dr. Sylvan @ Dec. 14 2003,05:50)I would just ditch the blue mana altogether and only play Ice via Scepter. -3 Wooded Foothills, -1 Volcanic Island, +4 Mountain.

Mountains are awesome.

I hate Chrome Mox in this deck. If there's no Scepter it makes it way too easy to run out of steam. Fork also looks odd. I've never liked a card that makes my topdecks less likely to randomly win games. Black Vise is rarely if ever good. Now more than ever control empties its hand really fast, so it simply won't reliably deal damage. It especially sucks when you've gone into topdeck mode after they Balance the first couple of threats.

As long as we're throwing caution to the winds by PoPing in a deck with nine nonbasics, Shrapnel Blasting, and Imprinting, I would cut the Chrome, Fork, and Vise for a Mountain and two Fireblast. Random Fireblast wins are tech.

If you were going to take blue out why did you take out the fetchlands too? Even in a monocolored deck they at least help thin out the deck.

Fork is a tough call. On one hand it can double a spell to win (ever try a forked PoP?). It can also helps in case they try to counter one of your spells. You do make a good point with it when you topdeck. I'd like to hear from some other people on this before we make a decision though.

I love Fireblast. It was one of the first cards I thought of when building sligh. However, you forgot about this little card called mana drain. 6 free mana for your opponent can hurt a whole lot.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Mathematically even with eight fetchlands the deck-thinning is not statistically significant until several turns later, at which point this deck should have won. Paying life is at a premium when you're already dealing yourself a bunch and might be facing another aggro deck.

Oh, and Fireblast has the reminder text: "When this goes onto the stack against a blue player, pray emphatically in whatever way you can." You can't let fear of Mana Drain cripple you the way that Fear of Fireblast is supposed to inhibit them.

[lilmidget]

Quote (Dr. Sylvan @ Dec. 14 2003,20:58)Mathematically even with eight fetchlands the deck-thinning is not statistically significant until several turns later, at which point this deck should have won. Paying life is at a premium when you're already dealing yourself a bunch and might be facing another aggro deck.

How can it not be significant? When you're in topdeck mode and need that last burn to finish off your opponent, the last thing you want is to draw land. Anything that can help you draw less land in situations like that is definitely worth it.

[Vegeta2711]

Someone wrote a great stastical article on the non signifigance of fetchlands on increased drawing of key spells over time on Brainburst, you should really look for it.

[lilmidget]

Quote (Vegeta2711 @ Dec. 14 2003,22:58)Someone wrote a great stastical article on the non signifigance of fetchlands on increased drawing of key spells over time on Brainburst, you should really look for it.

Got a link to that?

Another thing that has come to my attention. I've seen that in some builds of sligh, sometimes Scald is used instead of REB. Though I can see scald's usefulness, I always considered REB to be a staple in sligh's SB. Does anyone have any reasoning as to which one is better to use? Or does it merely depend on something else, such as your metagame.

[Lyhrrus]

I prefer scald to REBs as they stay as a permanent threat on the board.  1 is a headache enough for a control player, as if they mana drain something, it'll be like having half your bolt go through.  2 on the board is just great.  You also don't have to leave your mana open.  Downside is that you can't keep your opponent guessing.  But sligh being more the active than reactive deck, I feel scald works better.