Where`s Belcher???

[Viceroy]

Well, no posts about this deck, so discuss it here.

Just for reference, 2003 version (obsolete now)

4 Goblin Charbelcher

4 Land Grant
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Dark Ritual
4 Chrome Mox
4 LED

7 SoLoMoxen
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Grim Monolith
4 Eldamri´s Vineyard
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Bayou

4 Duress

1 Memory Jar
1 Necropotence
1 Channel
1 Regrowth

1 Yawgmoth´s Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Spoils of the Vault

The deck lost almost everything after the last restrictions, anyway i think is still viable. Although the deck is hosed by chalice, matrix, null rod etc etc.

Neo Belcher

4 Goblin Charbelcher

4 Dark Ritual
4 Land Grant
4 Eldamri`s Vineyard
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Cabal Ritual
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Bayou

1 LED
1 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith

4 Duress
3 Unmask

4 Spoils of the Vault
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Channel

1 Regrowth
1 Yawgmoth`s Will
1 Memory Jar
1 Necropotence

The SB must include Swarms, oxidize/naturalize, maybe planar voids.

Any thoughts??

[Jacob Orlove]

Decklists without discussion belong in newbie.

[Ruinn]

I'm one of the people who was paritally responsible for some of the directions that this deck took.  I even used it in a couple of tournaments to get a feel for it and the results were... not that great.  I determined that it was just too inconsistant and could be hated so easily by cards people are already running.  As such, I have, for the most part, scrapped the belcher project until a revelation is made or another card comes out that greatly helps the deck.

In regards to the list you have there, most efforts proved that the best build used two lands, a bayou and a tropical island in order to bring in some of the power cards.  Tinker proved to be especially good in this deck.  The spheres were also cut and so were the vineyards even later for various reasons.  The vineyards helped out the opponents too much and birds of paradise turned out to actually be a better option.  The spheres were slow and clunky and thus removed.  Cabal Ritual is also suboptimal in the deck.  Necropotence was also taken out for being too slow and a pain to cast.  Adding a tainted pact or two helped get the cards you would need.

You are for the most part correct about the sideboard, 4 swarms are a must and I used four crumbles, but oxidize is better and when legal should be used.  Running both crumble and oxidize is not an awful idea since most of the damaging cards against belcher are artifacts.  

If you decide to develop this further, good luck.  The deck can have some very broken hands and can win first turn fairly often, but I found the inconsistancy means that it is not as good as the other combo decks out there right now.

[Wollblad]

I have done some testing with the Charbalcher deck, but have come to about the same conclusion as Ruinn. Unstable mana base and the fact that Chalice and Null Rod kill the deck makes it inferior to other type of combo decks. The best I ended up with was a G/B/U version but since the deck contains so many mana producers you tended to end up with too few threats.

A version I havn't tested is a build much like the Slaver decks with control elements, Thirst and Welders and then also Mana Severance. Slower; sure but stable. Perhaps it is too slow. Testing will show.

[Chefy]

The build I have been screwing with runs the one Bayou in the main as well as 2 in the board and a Tolarian Acedemy.  That is because of the 4 main deck Living Wish.  Which allow for you to have an Uktabi Orangutan as well as an Nantuko Vigilante to handle various problems.  Another thing is that I maindeck 3 Tendrils of Agony.  I am not sure how exactly the deck will look though as I have no Spoils of the Vault or Tainted Pacts in the deck and those are most likely needed.  However, this is a build I have on paper but haven't put enough time into it to say it is a grade A build.

My Belcher
Mana Related Cards: 27
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Bayou
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mana Vault
1 Channel
Kill Cards: 7
4 Goblin Charbelcher
3 Tendrils of Agony
Tutor: 11
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rhystic Tutor or Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Living Wish
4 Spoils of the Vault
Broken: 5
1 Regrowth
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Memory Jar
Disruption: 10
4 Duress
3 Unmask
3 Xantid Swarm

Sideboard 15
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
2 Bayou
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Nantuko Vigilante
1 Xantid Swamp
Then 8 real sideboard cards, of which I do not know

This version runs less mana, but it is still quite solid.  The spoils are in card for card for Cabal Rituals which were rarely huge (generally when things had gones wrong and a tutor would have been better earlier, but the mana was helpful).  I got tired of hitting a bunch of stuff with Consult so I switched it into a Rhystic Tutor and have had better than expected results.

[Bram]

This deck absolutely dies to any form of decent control. I tested against this build with Keeper a few days ago and went 8-1. It's is WAY too vunerable to countermagic. A well-placed FoW (often targeting a Ritual) will shut the deck down for many turns before they can set up again. The disruption it has mindeck is just not enough.

It can go off pretty fast though, but is much more inconsistent than other available combo decks. It could be nice in a low-control meta.