[Deck] Easter Tendrils

[Ephraim]

I'll definitely try it, Mind_Under_Matter. I only recently added Burning Wish and while I've never had trouble casting it, I agree that it probably swings my need for mana toward red. White would be necessary only in a toolbox situation, which should not take precedence over building the mana base to cast the maindeck spells most efficiently.

[Alfred]

Eph, have you considered putting one helm of awakening into the sideboard, so that it can be death wished out?

[Ephraim]

That has been tested Alfred and both Ifflejink and I agree that it just doesn't work. The deck requires a Helm of Awakening to start doing much at all, including generating large amounts of mana. The only time when it's really feasible to cast Death Wish is when you already have large amounts of mana. Even if you're "lucky" and had a couple of rituals and Death Wish in your opening hand, you're paying ten life and spending three cards to get Helm of Awakening into play. Either that or your wait several turns to build up enough mana to cast the Death Wish, by which point you've fallen much too far behind to ever catch up.

I don't blame you for thinking it might be a good idea. We all thought it might really improve the consistency of the deck, since it gives the deck three additional cards that will find a Helm of Awakening. However, even a little bit of testing with that configuration revealed that the damage to the deck's tempo was irreparable.

[unnameable]

I've been playtesting a 5-proxy nearly mono-black version of this deck (a decklist for which I'd be happy to provide, but, not wanting to offend the mods, I'll wait for someone to tell me it's okay to post a 5 proxy deck on the budget forums).  I've been using a card which hasn't really been discussed in this thread yet: Lion's Eye Diamond.

As far as I can tell, this card is a monster in this deck.  The way you get around the drawback is by playing out the eggs in your hand, and then popping the diamond in response to one of the draw or tutor spells.  You can then use the mana to pop some eggs and then cast whatever you drew/tutored into.  A simple hypothetical: 1st turn land, Ritual (or Mana Vault or Mana Crypt), 3 eggs, LED, discard 1 card, Pop 3 eggs, get 3 cards in hand and 3 colored mana to cast them with.

Two anecdotes, both without a Helm of Awakening in play,  that show its potential:
1) I had three hard-cast eggs and a LED in play, a Death Wish in hand, and BB1 in my pool.  I cast Death Wish (thinking I would get a Wheel of Fortune), responded by popping the LED, discarding a Conjurer's Bauble.  I let the LED resolve, and then added the three egg effects to the stack (I should have played them one by one, but I was cocky).  I drew a Dark Ritual off the eggs, which I cast using the BBR in my pool.  I was then able to instead get a Tendrils off the Death Wish, and win.
2) I ritualed out a Death Wish, popped an LED for BBB in response, and then some eggs.  I drew a Demonic Tutor off the eggs, so I got Yawgmoth's Will with the wish.  I used Yawgmoth's Will to play a land and some rituals out of my graveyard and replay the LED.  I cast the Tutor off the Rituals (dropping some 1cc artifacts along the way) with B still floating, and sacked LED in response to the tutor for BBB again (discarding a Night's Whisper) .  I grabbed a Tendrils with the tutor and won.

[Ephraim]

On a rather critical note, please note that for the time being, my last posted build is not to be trusted. It had been goldfishing fine for me, took several easy victories in an ultra-scrubby environment one week, but the following week, it stalled on me no fewer than three times. I've replaced one City of Brass with another Mossfire Egg and I am testing with that, to see if it provides any more reliable results.

I am also beginning to second guess the use of Windfall in this deck. Playing against fast aggro, I have found that by turn three, my opponent doesn't often have many more cards in his or her hand than I have. I may go back to playing with Thoughtcast (-1 Mossfire Egg, -1 Windfall, +2 Thoughtcast) or two Night's Whisper, instead.

[martyr]

Thoughtcast is amazing in this deck; Night's Whisper is just an overcosted Thoughtcast with a drawback.

[Ephraim]

Thoughtcast isn't nearly as amazing as it seems if you draw it before you're ready to go off. Trust me, if I had always been able to cast it for or , I wouldn't be considering Night's Whisper.

[martyr]

I don't get it; how is it so hard to cast for two, or even 1? Ephraim, are you playing the version that has disruption and whatnot? I could see it being subpar then, but if you're spending your early turns playing Eggs and Helms and whatnot, then...where's the problem?

@unnameable: please do post the 5-proxy list, but make sure you label the proxies (shouldn't be too hard to tell, but still. for reference), and actually be productive, none of the "this deck is a lot better with, and not viable without, power".

Well, there's been some lively discussion considering the benefits of Brainstorm and Thoughtcast, but I think most have come to the concensus that Brainstorm shouldn't be played in the deck. Mostly, the basic form of the deck has been decided. Thank god noone jumped on the "DoomBauble" variant. ::shudder::

But what are some good sb cards? Assuming you're playing Death and Burning Wish, what is absolutely necessary for the SB? If you're NOT playing wishes, what should your plan for game 2 and 3 be?

I think something like Chain of Vapor is necessary in large numbers, as an answer to Null Rod.

Note that with Null Rod out, you can still play out all the permanents you want, you just can't really go off, so you can save the Chain.

Is Rushing River better, though? Chain might just end up costing three (U, plus 2 to re-cast the Helm they chained it at), and River could double in effectiveness for the same cost.

I guess what I'm asking is: What is the best answer to the most common cards that hose this deck?

So, possible answers to:

Null Rod
Trinisphere
Chalice of the Void

Non-Permanent Disruption (Duress, Force of Will, Stifle, etc.)
 
If you guys could list any off-the-wall suggestions you've got, I can come up with a basic list of:

Chain of Vapor
Rushing River
Echoing Truth
Terminate
Diabolic Edict
Oxidize
Tel-Jilad Justice
Naturalize

Off-The-Wall:

Force of Will

Also, what are the best answers, given this deck's dynamics, to the most common decks that don't necessarily disrupt the deck, but can win before it (i.e, combo.)

Tormod's Crypt (Dragon: great for powering up Academy and Thoughtcast)
Stifle (Charbelcher, Tendrils, Draw-7)
Extract (DoomBauble)...just kidding...

[Ephraim]

To start, I am running the disruptive variant of the deck. Even in the speed variant, Thoughtcast can fail. Suppose you're going off with only a single Helm of Awakening on the table. If you draw a Thoughtcast with your last egg sacrifice, Thoughtcast will cost . While you will sometimes get Thoughtcast when it can be cast more cheaply, it can kill you to draw it when it will cost three. On the other hand, as long as you have a Helm of Awakening on the table, Night's Whisper will always cost & 2 life.

At present, my sideboard is as follows:

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind's Desire
1 Oxidize
1 Tel-Jilad Justice
1 Erase
1 Aura Blast
1 Hurkyll's Recall
2 Defense Grid
2 Ancestral Knowledge
3 Echoing Truth

The first eight entries are purely wishboard material. Defense Grid gets sided in versus control, a single Ancestral Knowledge replaces Windfall when facing combo, and Echoing Truth replaces Duress, when facing aggro. Ancestral Knowledge is also available as a Wish target, in case the deck needs some serious stacking.

Of those, only Yawgmoth's Will and Tendrils of Agony are strictly necessary. The rest are there to deal with any of the various problems that might arise in an actual game.

I don't feel particularly comfortable with Rushing River. I don't usually have more than two or three lands in play when I go off. Often, continuation of the combo will be made possible by a timely Frantic Search. Sacrificing a land to deal with a second permanent may not work well with this deck's light mana count. I prefer Echoing Truth. Although it may not ever return more than one permanent, I think it has the advantage over Chain of Vapor, since Chain can and will give your opponent an opportunity to disrupt your combo.

Null Rod, Trinisphere, and Chalice of the Void (with 1 counter) probably all should just be considered game over. Regretably, Death Wish is an extremely expensive way to Wish for answers. However, all of the deck's answers are instants, while all of the broken cards in the sideboard, that let the deck do terrible things, are Sorceries. I suppose it's possible although not particularly likely that with any of those cards on the table, one could Wish for Oxidize or Tel-Jilad Justice (I include both of them, since Chalice for 1 defeats Oxidize and Chalice for 2 defeats Tel-Jilad Justice). If there are a lot of troublesome artifacts on the table, Wish for Hurkyl's Recall.

In general, Terminate and Diabolic Edict are both inferior to Echoing Truth, Chain of Vapor or Rushing River. You probably won't need to eliminate any creatures permanently - only long enough to go off. By cutting creature kill from the sideboard, you make room for answers that are more universal.

Force of Will has no place in this deck at all. It runs hardly any blue spells, so you'd never be able to take advantage of Force of Will's alternative casting cost. If you wanted to include a counter, the only one I'd really endorse would be Mana Drain. A sudden flood of mana can help this deck go off a turn earlier than it otherwise could.

[jacebenson]

Ok.  My deck is kind of like these.  I run a card that no one has made mention of.  Then again.  My deck is a 1.5 version at the moment.  What is your guys' opinion on running Second Sunrise to help continue comboing.

[Ifflejink]

jacebenson: Second Sunrise isn't in my build for one reason: WW. After a Death Wish, I usually don't have WW. Even if it were main deck (very bad idea), the WW would still be a bit hard to pull off.

On the subject of the sideboard, I agree with most of Ephraim's choices, the main difference being that I have 4 Duress (trying to fir these maindeck), no Echoing Truths and no Defense Grids. I prefer Chain of Vapor to Rushing River because Chain can easily take care of a Chalice for two or first-turn artifact disruption from your opponent.

On the debate between Thoughtcast and Night's Whisper, I have completely dropped Thoughtcast in favor of Thirst for Knowledge. Thirst costs as much as Thoughtcast usually does, and it digs deeper. I also run two Night's Whispers, due to the fact that they always cost one and the drawback is negligable.

[jacebenson]

Aiight.  Now I gotsa post my deck.  I also would like to know when you all normally go off.  I only playtested the deck like 10 times tonight, probably more, went off turn one 3 times.

Drawing Engine
4xChromatic Sphere
4xSkycloud Egg
4xShadowblood Egg
4xSungrass Egg
4xDarkwater Egg
4xMossfire Egg
24
Cards that allow me to continue comboing
3xSecond Sunrise
1xYawgmoth's Will
1xFrantic Search
5
Mana Acceleration
4xDark Ritual
1xBlack Lotus(Proxy)
1xSol Ring
1xMana Vault
1xLotus Pedal
8
Needed to Win
3xHelm of Awakening
2xTendrils of Agony
1xDemonic Tutor
1xBurning Wish
7
Land
1xTolarian Academy
3xCrystal Vein
4xAncient Tomb
4xSwamp
2xPolluted Delta
2xBloodstaind Mire
16

Now I don't know I have not playtested all versions of this.  But I find it really good.  What do you guys think.  I need another Helm for sure.

[Hermitthedruid]

This might seem like a strange idea, but why not make Easter Tendrils into budget Draw7? Most of the decks here still use Thoughtcast and Night's Whisper or 20+ eggs, when just 1 Draw7 can solve problems like land clots while going off or the lack of threats to force through FoW. Most importantly, it would put less pressure on resolving a Helm, meaning less eggs (not threats vs. counters), fewer tutors and Wishes (especially ones that set up turn 3 kills), and more maindeck Draw7s so you don't need to waste precious mana on casting tutors to find your real spells.

Here's my decklist, which really tries to focus on winning turn 2.

Budget Draw7

Land (12)
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

Acceleration (18)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
R Channel
R Lotus Petal
R Mana Crypt
R Mana Vault
R Sol Ring
R Grim Monolith
4 Helm of Awakening

Spells to Resolve (10)
R Tinker
R Windfall
2 Diminishing Returns
R Mind's Desire
R Time Spiral
R Yawgmoth's Will
R Necropotence
R Wheel of Fortune
R Memory Jar

Filters (14)
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Darkwater Egg
2 Shadowblood Egg
4 Skycloud Egg

Utility (4)
R Mystical Tutor
R Demonic Consultation
R Vampiric Tutor
R Demonic Tutor

Win (2)
2 Tendrils of Agony

I feel this build is a lot better than others because it just has more real spells than implied ones. Tutors and Wishes might mean extra Helms and draws to easier matchups, but everything becomes much harder if they have FoW. It's even worse if you try to win on turn 3 or after, when Mana Drain comes online. This decklist isn't perfect, but I think it is a step in the right direction.

Oh, and I know Tolarian Academy isn't there. I feel Ancient Tomb is more reliable and thus better for this deck, especially when it comes to first turn Helms. Academy won't help you there unless you have Lotus Petal or Mana Crypt.

[Jacob Orlove]

moved to casual, see the other easter tendrils thread for an explanation.