New Combo: NotLong.dec OR Draw7.dec

[jazzykat]

After my team mates won first and second again in a tourney with big o and bombs over baghdad (or whatever he calls it), I decided I better start towing the line. The metagame has a ton of control in it so firstly I am not sure if this is the deck to play.

I have been gold fishing and giggle insidieously when I go off. I was thinking of metagaming it a bit to hate control but other than sneaking in MD duress, or xantid swarms I am not sure how. Even more importantly I don't know what to take out, initially I though brainstorm or chromatic sphere, then I put down my crack pipe!

Strangely enough I saw more than a few decks with either stifle or null rod.

I know everyone wants to keep their tech secret before the big tourneys but I can goldfish like a mofo, I just am not sure how to plow through chalices, rods, stifles, and counterspells (If they hit a dark ritual at the right time it is game over  :shock:  !

[Xhad]

Even more importantly I don't know what to take out, initially I though brainstorm or chromatic sphere, then I put down my crack pipe!

Brainstorm I am thoroughly unimpressed with.  Honestly the only reason I'm running 2 right now is because I can't think of anything else to put in their slots.  They sometimes keep you from crapping out (and are so good against Slaver I actually board a third one), but they also make it much more difficult to evaluate opening hands, and can spell death if they don't offer anything and you aren't holding a tutor.

I'm not missing Chromatic Sphere, but I am running Hurkyl's, Fastbond, Crop Rotation and Chrome Mox.  If not running all four of those I might be afraid of colorscrew, but the cycling doesn't matter that much.

I know everyone wants to keep their tech secret before the big tourneys but I can goldfish like a mofo, I just am not sure how to plow through chalices, rods, stifles, and counterspells (If they hit a dark ritual at the right time it is game over  :shock:  !

My current "hate base" is 2 Pact, 1 Hurkyl's, 2 Chain, 4 FoW.  I don't know if this is just my play style or if it's actually the correct way to play the deck, but I seem to have the most success when I aim to go off on turn 2.  The reason I'm loving pact so much is that I usually have mana to cast it first turn, but since it's an instant I wait to see what my opponent does so I'll know if I should pact for a hatespell, or a mana accelerator to float extra after my first draw 7.  

Chalice/Null Rod is nowhere near as annoying as Trinisphere; if your opponent goes first and drops a first-turn sphere you're screwed until at least turn 3 and that's if you're topdecking from your eleven land.  A chalice can be beaten by Chain of Vapor, and assuming you have even one land that translates to a chain, or a vamp, or a lucky ancestral/brainstorm.

Stifle...pfft on Stifle.  Sometimes you just barely manage to go off, but a lot of the time you can just twister some more and try it again.  More often than not a Stifle just means you win with a storm count of 50 instead of a storm count of 10.

Other counterspells hurt, but once you know your opponent's running them you can plan around them.  Even if they do force your stuff and break your combo, you can often just cast a draw7 the next turn and try again.  Having yourself interrupted isn't so bad when one lucky wheel/twister can put you right back in the game.

[jazzykat]

I have modified steve's original deck by:

-2 spirit guide
-1 brainstorm
+1 duress (can be tutored for on the turn you have everything together for against control...maybe too random, maybe it should be a tainted pact?)
+1 chrome mox (I have liked it more than a random spirit guide, adds to storm count)
+1 hurkylls (random utility)


Must put deck down! Well I have been goldfishing this deck all day, it is so borken! I was thinking that putting negators in the board vs control would be frikken hillarious.
They would have to worry about so much more then.
Cast 5 spells, try to Yawgs countered....drop negator?

I saw them in a rector tendrils build that was played against me. I think the board should be artifact hate, duress, and negators.

Sample board:

1 tendrils
1 balance
1 diminishing returns
3 chain of vapor (bounce chalice, rods, 3sphere)
2 hurkyll's recall (bounce locks off the board)
3 negators (surprise control, with the traditional control killer)
4 xantid swarm (a must counter for control, unless they want to finish the round early and let you go off)

maybe the green free three mana (deconstruct) artifact destruction could be incorporated?

Since this hasn't been discussed for a while I assume everyone else's boards have changed.

My meta is heavy control, some aggro, 2 dragon decks, and 1 slaver for combo.


Question about tinker: tinker gets either the memory jar or the lotus right?

Workshop is not prevalent, so chalices and 3spheres should be at a minimum.

If this board and MD choices suck then forgive me, I am just trying to generate discussion again and develop a viable deck. Quite honestly this is my first venture into pure combo, and I am really having a ball just playing vs myself. Trying to be more broken and always go off turn 3 latest. Turn 2 is most of the time, and 1 sometimes. I love how this deck bounces back with all the draw sevens. You can always be back into the game off a top deck and enough mana, that is unnerving for opponents and makes them very careful with their counter mana. Side note: all draw 7's except the wheel and jar are pretty crappy for tog, they have to shuffle their graveyard back which makes them more reliant on berserk.

I am developing a playtesting regiment that I will share when I finalize it. I am just going to develop 6-10 adverse scenarios that this deck will have to face (1st. turn null rod, 1st. turn duress against me, 1st. turn land gets broken! etc) Then I will roll a die after I decide to keep a hand and see what I have to fight against. Then I will actually playtest against real opponents, but it is unfair to bore my friends before I am ready to take them down!!!

[jazzykat]

Ach! I just read about the meandeck slaver. Either we are going to throw this deck out the window, or I am thinking of putting SB annuls if 3sphere is going to run rampant. On the bright side, the toothy man is being put in the background as slaver seems to be taking his top spot.

Also, in case anyone cares there is a #6 spot combo deck. Notice no chromatics spheres. I have to agree they are completely unnescessary. Actually I suppose if you are going to see a lot of workshop then you can side in MD annuls?

[Xhad]

About the Negators: I would rather play Hidden Gibbons.  The fact that you don't need to spend a ritual on it is huge, and it's not like your opponent can hold back on instants since that would mean not countering your attempts to go off.  It'd also be easier to randomly cast one to boost your storm count midcombo.  Also, I'd expect a control opponent to side out StP, but they'll probably keep Fire/Ice in expecting Xantid Swarm.

[jazzykat]

Update on my testing:

I am using the tourney winner's deck: -2 spirit guides
+1 chrome mox (I like this card, borken on will and necro hands, usually much more useful than a random green, plus it adds to storm at the cost of another stormable card?)
+1 glimmer void (I really think that you almost need a first turn land drop and to be honest you want to drop one turn 2 (I can usually go off turn 2)

Also, to anyone who isn't sure what to break lions's eye diamond for, or a lotus(when timetwister, or a returns is cast) before a draw 7 goes off. You need at least one black (to ritual up more), 2 is ideal (in case you draw a lot of free artifacts and a tendrils), and quite a few blue as your draw is mostly blue and it does not have a way of generating many from one card except from academy.

This deck is really something as it pushes aggro right over, although null rods are a pain. Has decent game vs. other combo, it is a race (funny vs. dragon as you are often twistering their dargons back to their deck, sometimes you put them in the yard *shrug* same idea vs. tog), and can have decent game vs. control because of the twisters either drawing forces, or changing their hand to something unpredictable and sometimes unplayable (no mulligans on a twister ), oh and swarms are obviously cool. I will continue to test.

As I said before if meandeck's slaver is taking over everywhere then we can just load up our board with annuls(going first....we lost the second game) and have force back up, and we will definitely have to go up to 4 spirit guides as the free mana boost becomes much more important to get up to 3 mana to cast under 3sphere.

This has been based on my testing over the weekend. If you think I am talking out of my ass then please post here and tell me, this is my first venture into pure combo.

PS: Love the Gibbons!!!! Smashing face is tech, and is easily stormable as xhad says. It also makes it really easy to tendrils someone out with one hit of the gorillas. It is also an insane win condition off a time walk because 2 gibbons and a spirit guide attacking twice=gg!