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Author Topic: 2° place Little Tournament with RG TnT  (Read 1989 times)
Gaea
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« on: February 08, 2004, 04:10:10 am »

This saturday i wanted to test my version of TnT, so i took part to this small tournament (32 people) to see what he can do, this is my decklist:

4 wooded foothills
3 taiga
4 forest
1 mountain
4 mishra workshop
4 wasteland
1 strip mine
6 solomoxen (I don't have jet)
1 mana crypt
(28)

4 goblin welder
1 gorilla shaman
1 anger
1 squee goblin nabob

1 quirion ranger

4 juggernaut
3 su-chi
2 solemn simulacrum (planning to play 3 of this and 2 su-chi but i wasn't able to find the third)
2 triskelion
1 masticore
1 karn silver golem
1 platinum angel
(22)

4 survival of the fittest
3 pirostatic pillar
2 chalice of the void
1 sylvan library
1 memory jar
(11)

SIDE:
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Reb
3 Blood Moon
3 Sphere of Resistance
1 Bottle gnomes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper (Not so bad..)

1° turn UR landstill with bolt, nevinyrral disk, man lands...
first match I start with land mox library, island and i can go, look to three card i keep sotf, play land and cast sotf, he tried an ancestral but sotf resolves, in his turn he play mishra mox R walk, volcanic and standstill, in his eot i discard anger for squee, i look to 3 cards i keep wasteland, destroy his volcanic discard squee for welder and play it, it resolves, i discard juggernaut and switch with mox to attack, in his turn he casta volcanic island mox sol ring, neviniral, bolt for juggi and fire for welder, i kill his mox with a shaman and switch nevinirral with it in his turn fire on them, next turn i play waste on volcanic (so he doesn't have 2 mana U) juggernaut, he forces, i play pirostatic pillar, he takes some damages, going to 10 life, i play juggernaut, he drains and go 8 i discard trikselion for welder switch sol ring for it and attack he stopped with mishra, next turn he can't drain cause i have triskelion and i win.
second match is very fast, he plays island go, i strip his island, he plays ancestral but he doesn't see any land, so next turn I do ws juggernaut, forced, he haven't still lands so i try another juggernaut that resolves and a sotf, i win easy in 3 turns.

2° turn Goblin
He starts with mountain lackey, i play ws mox mox juggernaut welder, he doesn't like, but bolt both my creatures, attack and play warchief, my turn i play su-chi and juggernaut, he plays a chain lightning on juggernaut and attacck with both creatures i stopped lackey but he plays a reckless charge and su-chi is destroyed, i do not see more creatures/sotf and he plays siege siege commander and win easy.
Second match i start with ws sphere mox, he is not very happy, mountain and go,i play land sol ring mox he plays mountain lackey,my turn i play sotf and another sphere, he attack and play goblin goon in is eot i take triskelion, my turn i discard anger for welder and triskelion for squee, switch triskelion and kill lackey, he see another land but I had too much good things for it.
Third match i keepe with mox mox simulacrum sol ring sphere land lotus, but he starts strip mine petal null rod... god... i have 4 dead cards in my hand, land go, he plays mountain go, draw welder and go, eot he bolts me, and in his turn he plays double chain lightning on me, so next turn i play welder, he plays barbarian ring but he doesn't have enough cards in his graveyard to destroy welder, plays warchief and go, i switch null rod with petal, cast simulacrum and a sylvan library that i drew, in his turn he plays goblin tinkerer on simulacrum, fetch and now he has 7 cards so destroy welder and attack, i see only lands, in his turn he plays piledriver and siegesiege and attack to win

3° turn the rock
I start with land moxsotf, he plays forest birds (i start to think is a vengeur mask)next turn i play juggernaut, in his turn he plays pernicious deed, i attack, his turn he destroy to 4 i take another juggernaut before sotf is destroied, i play it, he edict me, than he plays troll ascetic, i draw su chi and play, he plays another pernicious deed, i draw land, he destroy to 4, play wall of blossoms and i can go, draw a welder without artifacts... so good...his turn he plays troll and pernicious... let's go to second match
I start with library, he play land birds, i play survival, he naturalize it, i took welder, cast juggernaut and welder, he plays pernicous deed, destroy all than withered wretch, baloth, troll ecc.... his deck has got too much solution...

4° turn Black/red (red for sideboard rack and ruin, reb and blood moon)
This was an easy match he starts playing badlands, i play wasteland, he plays another badlands and i waste, he doesn't have any more lands so i kill him with a juggernaut.
Second match he plays land duress discarding my library, i draw sotf (  Very Happy ) i play it, than he tried to stop me but with survival i can do everything, he play also a null rod but i take uktabi to detroy it.

TOP8

1° match Hulk Smash scepter
First match i start with ws mox juggi, it resolves, land and duress, taking pirostatic pillar, i waste his land, plays su-chi and in a couple of turns i win.
Second match he starts with land mox sapphire go, i play simulacrum he drains, took damages, i play pillar he force and i play juggernaut, he needs green mana to play pernicious or artifatc mutation but he doesn0t see and i play a triskelion that kills him.

2° match strange keeper (no red with green)
We're late he said he must return home so he let me go to final, good  Very Happy

Final another time the rock
first match i started with juggernaut, he plays land therapy on sotf i don't have, next turn i play pyrostatic pillar, in his turn he edict me, i play land and go, he plays pernicious, i play waste and go,he destroy to 2 and plays 2 birds of paradise, than i play su-chi and simulacrum, he plays baloth and wall, i can't attack with baloth, so in his turn he plays ascetic and naturalize on su-chi and win in a couple of turn easy.
Second match i start with land go, he play land birds, i play ws juggernaut, he naturalize it, i plays sotf, and take squee and anger, in his turn he plays living wish on withered wretch, removes my squee and anger and let me go, i play triskelion, he living wish for viridian shaman and destroy it, i can't use my survival so i lose easy.
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"You cannot pass...
I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor.
You cannot pass.
The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun.
Go back to the Shadow.
You cannot pass!"
FireFall26
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2004, 09:29:40 am »

Quote
attacck with both creatures i stopped lackey but he plays a reckless charge and su-chi is destroyed,


This is an illegal play, reckless charge has to be played at the beginning of the combat phase, since it is a sorcery.
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Tainted_Wood
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2004, 08:58:20 pm »

How did you feel your simulacrums did for you that day?  I'm having a hard time justifying them, but I haven't heard from people who liked them.

Would you still run 3 over the 3rd Su-chi?

When were they great?  When were they not-so-great?
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TimeBeing
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2004, 04:02:33 pm »

since when is 32 people a small T1 tournment?
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MaxxMatt
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2004, 12:10:11 pm »

@timebeing. Since we always have tourney with at least more than 50-60+ players. Smile Lucky we eh? Smile

@gaea: good job with your deck. For this metagame I really like the way you are streamlining day after day your build.

The only card that I would like to see played in your build is Duplicant.

Like I sayed in other treat, CotV over Blood Moon is a metagame choice, even if I prefer Blood Moon, but only for my own experience.

Sylvan Library speed up your mid-game but usually force you to "lose" a turn ( the one during which you cast it.. ).Have you tried 3 Blood Moon instead of 2 Cotv+1S.Library?

Preside, Hulk and Keeper are bad mathcup for this deck, despite your results. Blood Moon would improve these match at all.
Post side, Keeper can handle every one of your treats and the real problem is Blood Moon another time.. Smile


@tainted wood. S.S. aren't so good when you have to put pressure to your opponent instead of "losing" time on putting land in play and drawing a bit more. With Welder in play, S.S. is extremely good, but with Welder in play ANY artifact of the deck is really effective.. Wink
I would not swap other S.Ss for Su-Chies, even if I realized how good is to draw cards, most of all in the mid game. Most of the time is really better to resolve Fatties and win i 3 turns.
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Tainted_Wood
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2004, 05:57:30 pm »

I know the reasons to run the SS, I'm just hoping to hear from people who have had some top level experience with him.  Is his "lack of pressure" detremental enough to override his card advantage?  Obviously, with an active welder he becomes disgusting, I'm just more curious to know if people are finding that to be worth it.  

As an example, how often (in decks with out the SS) do you lose when you have an active welder?  If that answer is "virtually never" then I don't think that Jens should be in the deck.  But if people are looking for a mid-late game punch even after the welder has been established than it might make sense to run one or two.  

I think it's pretty much the same issue as the sylvan library.  If you can keep an SotF on the board, then sylvan library becomes STUPID GOOD.  But is that turn worth it.  And do we win more matches with the addition of the sylvan library than we would have without?  I'm tempted to say that it doesn't help that much because with a survival on the table, you should be able to keep the threats coming regardless.  

But all that said, I have ZERO high level experience with this deck, and I would like to hear of some specific examples that top 8 folks have had.
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MaxxMatt
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2004, 04:43:31 am »

My direct experience revealed me that Welder+S.S. let you acquire an edge over the opponent in a middle-long range view of the game. You can plan to win with hin only if you are not facing Combo or COmbo-Control Decks. In all these cases Suchi's and Juggy + Blood Moon or Pillar are the only chance you have to win. We ( me and Gaea ) see a lot of them in our tourneys and I that is the great reason I didn't recommend the use of S.S. .

If Aggro and Control are your only trouble, S.S. and or S.LIbrary in conjunction with SotF and Welder SHOULD seal every game.

For a mixed metagame, I think that 1 S.S. can diluite the deck and draw you a lot of cards, if tutored with SotF and swapped with Welder. I see it as an other Utility card to use in some situation, but that have not to change too much the starategy of TnT during the game.

Preside, a lot of  Decks should have difficulties to stop Welder+Jens if they were both in play and they WIN games. but on the other game Juggy + Walk win games too Smile
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Tainted_Wood
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2004, 01:32:45 pm »

That was EXACTLY the type of response I was looking for.  

I personally believe that 1 copy should be in the deck, but I'm really leary of running fewer than 8 4cc fatties.  I think I will test him in the spot that many people run Karn in.  I haven't been happy with Karn at all since I took out the tangle wires.
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Gaea
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2004, 05:09:55 pm »

@Maxx: actually i'm trying to evolve my version following my playing style, i really like SS since they give me advantage Vs aggro or stacks decks, i think their number can vary according to the metagame, I still don't know which one can be the best version of the deck, I have lots of doubts, especially about the "lock cards" of the decks, they can be:

pillar
tangle wire
blood moon
chalice of the void
sphere of resistance

I saw some version of this deck playing tangle+chalice, some blood moon ecc... i don't like to put moons maindeck, i they they're game vs a a keeper/hulk but is a dead card against a lot of other decks, i prefer chalices fo their flexibility, they're a good card vs aggro, combo, control.
I play karn cause it's good to "eat" moxes if shaman is in the graveyard and can also destroy chalice that are annoying me.
Logged

"You cannot pass...
I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor.
You cannot pass.
The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun.
Go back to the Shadow.
You cannot pass!"
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