[Deck] Tangle Wire Sligh

[Ric_Flair]

Duh...I forgot [card] Necromancy [/card] is an instant.  I should have used the card tags and I would have known that.  

BTW the card tags are AWESOME.  Coolest new feature of TMD 2.  

Does anyone know how I can make a tool bar out of the lookup feature for my brower?  I am running IE 6 and I would like to put it in the links thing so that it is always there when I am surfing the net.  Thanks.

[Lyhrrus]

I'm not sold on Slith still, even with Tangle Wire.  He seems to be too slow, even given the playout:

Turn 1: Dork
Turn 2: Slith
Turn 3: Tangle

I say this because, with the new aggro decks, they're dropping fat within the first few turns, and it'll be Turn 4 before you can beat with Slith.

Also, miner seems really janky, because even though he's extra land d, it seems that you'll be utilizing mana with port to shut down their base.

This came up in the Ankh Sligh topic and it seems to be a better fit in Tangle Sligh, why not use [card]Meekstone[/card]?  In addition to meekstone, I'd even throw in an odd [card]Shrapnel Blast[/card] or 2 because your artifact count is going up.

[zero]

Interesting take on sligh. I don't play extended, so this deck seems new to me, but I'll take a stab at it. I was wondering if, since extended doesn't have mox to get around tangle wire, do you feel that null rods would be useful in addition to the wires?. I ask because often when playing mud, for instance, a powered player isn't as bothered by the wire because he'll lay down permanents more quickly by virtue of having moxen, and just cunning wish on his upkeep. Since you are using grim lavamancer instead of cursed scrolls, null rods do not harm you like they used to. Or do you think that they're overkill? I was thinking of removing the miner, a chain, and an incinerate for 3 of them.  I've also always liked pyrokinesis in the side, though against Big O style decks it may be too much card disadvantage, and they'll probably recover b4 you do.

[Ric_Flair]

Though I have done a little bit of testing in the past week, here are some of my preliminary findings:

First, despite what a few other people have said in this thread and the Ankh Sligh thread, Metalworker and Goblin Welder are tremendous threats.  The fact is that most GOOD aggro artifact decks run Lightning Greaves and almost always Greaves the Welder or Worker the turn they come into play.  This means that instant speed removal is a necessity.  The power of the Greaves/Welder combo is insane.  It basically requires a Pillage and a Bolt to win the game, something that is hard to do when staring down the barrel of a TnT shotgun.  

Second, I have added fetchlands and the red mana source count is now at 12.  Recent testing, 12 matches against GAT and Sui on Saturday showed that I have too much land in the deck.  I am not sure what the right mix is, but I will look into this a bit more.  I never had a RR problem on turn 2.  

Third, Sol Ring has been suggested and this is an idea I will try out this weekend.  

Fourth, 4 Lavamancers is good against Fish (duh), but probably weak against the field as a whole.  My problem is finding enough high caliber metagames to play the deck in, as it loses most of its punch when facing Moxless, Workshopless, Bazaarless decks.  

Fifth, overall the testing has been good.  The deck is a good metagame deck, and definitely better than Ankh Sligh.  But I am not sure if this is the ringing endorsement a deck needs to be viable choice in the current metagame.  The fact is that this much land hate and burn can still games away from even the best decks, but I think it needs to be tweaked more until we can say that it is consistent.  Stealing games is not exactly the best game plan for winning a tournament.  

Other cards I plan on testing:

Blistering Firecat/Ball Lightning:  Why Firecat over Ball Lightning?  Well, first I like the ability to morph it out and I like the fact that 7 damage is so vastly superior to 6 damage (one entire turn faster).  Also I am not sure how easy the deck can support RRR, where as the morph cost gets around this.

Cursed Scroll:  The issue with the deck is the inability to go broken like the top tier decks can (Keeper, Tog, Workshop).  They can just have crazy turns with multiple Walks and the like.  This is just too much power.  Cursed Scroll may help against this and give the deck a late game.

Skullclamp:  Well here is question--is this card worth it in a deck of creatures that all have 1 toughness?  I don't know.  But drawing two cards off a useless Mox Monkey or Jackal Pup late game, may be a good enough thing to warrant inclusion.  If nothing else I can cycle a Mox Monkey for Lightning Bolts late game.

Fire/Ice:  Though it lacks the punch of Chain Lightning it is an instant.  The deck absolutely MUST rid the board of Welders.  They ruin the game plan of the deck, tapping permanents, by allowing tapped Moxen to become hasty Juggernauts.  

Sol Ring/Ancient Tomb:  If there were more good artifact creatures out there, that is aggro artifact guys, the Ancient Tomb would be a natural, but the deck has too many colorless land as it is.  Sol Ring, though, is just good.

[Machinus]

Ric -

While versatile, efficient, and dangerous in a format dependent mainly on artifacts and lands, I think pillage is just too expensive for its effect compared to the countless other ways to shut down lands in this format.


To begin with, strip mine and wasteland are free and uncounterable. This is part of the reason the are so effective. It is a bit more obvious that Stone Rain would be really a poor choice for ANY deck in Type 1, but I think Pillage is only a little bit better, and not strong enough to use as part of a central land denial strategy - and for that matter, I don't think any centralized mana denial strategy is effective if it doesnt include Sphere, Void, or something more powerful than sorceries.

Secondly, there can be anywhere from zero to ten artifact mana sources in a deck that cost one or zero. This can bump up the mana curve a full turn for most decks that run power. A denial strategy that centers on land mana is far too weak to be able to lock an opponent, and spending 3 mana and a card to destroy a piece of jewelry is a trade that I think any opponent would accept willingly. The strip effects are not usually included to play a central role in a deck's strategy, but are there to make a bad situation worse for the opponent, or get you out of a situation where they have their land out and you need to slow down their game.

Then we have the fact that red land kill costs three, and is a sorcery. By the time you have three mana up, force of will, misdirection, or mana drain ought to ruin your day. Last night on IRC there was some ridiculing of Sinkhole, which is the best land destuction spell there is. Combined with dark ritual, it can kill land any time, but there aren't other effective black land destruction spells to back it up, so it plays a complementary role in disrupting the opponent in suicide, and not a central role in a mana denial strategy.


There are other cards that I think have very powerful effects but in Type 1 they are just not good enough to make it. Rishadan Port is many times weaker than wasteland, mainly because it hurts you twice as much as it hurts the opponent. It also lets the opponent, as you do mention, draw two in response off Bazaar. Port succeeded in a Type 2 format where mana curves were normal functions of land drops, and artifact mana came online a few turns later, so port could prevent an opponent from playing spells. One needs only to check the latest deck from Smmenen to see what mana curves in Type 1 really look like. Incinerate, too, I think is a poor choice, simply because bolt is a superior choice and if you are losing to regeneration, then the lock is the problem, not the removal. Other cards like Cursed Scroll, which dominated other, slower formats, are simply outclassed here. Even though they might create strong and asymmetric effects, they cannot match the power level of the threats that are needed to beat Togs, Dreadnoughts, and Dragons.

However, I have been working on a similar deck myself, designed to abuse Skullclamp and aimed at taking advantage of a mana denial complement. Shaman, Wasteland, and Tangle Wire are all good choices for constructing a mana denial component. The strongest component of the deck I have designed is Blood Moon, which I feel is better than any other disruption red has to offer. I will be able to provide a rough decklist after I finish making some larger choices like adding a second color and making the mana base as strong as possible.


I hope to see more work on breathing new life into Sligh, I would really enjoy having it around as a viable choice against double blue.

- Machinus

[Bauerkrieg]

I personally think that this deck is an interesting idea yet it lacks in many areas. Tangle wire is too slow for sligh. Passive sligh gets you killed too often. Second of all 12 red mana sources are not enough. I run a sligh with 8 fetch, 7 mountains, 1 waste and one strip. A mox ruby and lotus petal are included. Any non-basic lands in your deck are viable targets for wastelands. One bad draw, and it's over. I think that pillage does not really belong in this deck. You only have 4 of them mainboard, and only 9 LD spells total (including 4 waste, 1 strip). The reason why Green LD is competitive is because it runs 16 LD spells or LD land. Kinda random thoughts to help, but I see this build to more 1.5 competitive than 1.