Special Request

[Eastman]

I received the following PM

Dear Eastman,

First let me start by saying that if this e-mail is inappropriate or intrusive, my apologies. I don't mean for this to come off any differently than to ask a favor. If you don't have the time to help out or just don't feel like, don't worry about it.

With that being said, what I am asking you and several others is to help me educate a growing number of players who are interested in type one. Apparently playordraw.com has had a large number of requests to not only clean up their forums but to also totally revamp their type 1 forums to meet the request of their membership. They have asked me on a temporary basis to help shape their "tournament level type 1" forum:

http://www.playordraw.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=67

I agreed to moderate these forums until they can find someone on a more permnent basis. I realize that this site is "less than desireable" but they seem to be geniune in their efforts to turn things around, at least where Vintage is concerned. I also feel that this presents a unique opportunity to directly effect are large group of YOUNG players who are showing an interest in the format. I feel that it is extremely benifical of the entire community if we all play a small role in fostering interest in this format. Playordraw has never took the time to teach vintage play on a competative level despite their large membership. Now attitutdes and personal have changed and this is a golden opportunity to help alot of inexperienced members of their site.

The favor that I am asking you and others is this: For you to make ONE post describing the deck that you most specialize in. I would assume that Maddness would be your deck of choice. This post is not meant to be an in depth primer, but something that explains how/why you constructed this deck tailored towards an inexperienced crowd...sort of a mini primer. My goal is to get several more prominent vintage players to write about their deck and then group these threads into a sticky thread where new players can use as a reference in addition to being able to post in.

I am extremely cognient of the fact that this my put you in a awkward position considering your standing at tmd.com. Again, if this is completley inappropriate I am sorry. However, I think ultimatley this will not detract or compete with tmd.com at all. If anything it is an opportunity for you and others to introduce yourself to a large group of players as well as your decks. Overtime, playordraw will fall off their radar screen as their knowledge grows. For more advance tech they will inevitably turn towards tmd.com once they are more experienced.

Basically, this is an opportunity to help a group of inexperienced players further their interest in our format. It would be great to have a group of "big names" in the format talk about their specialized builds.

Let me know what you think. If you think this sort of PM is okay to send to others let me know as well. If not, then I'll totally scrap the idea.

Thanks for your time,

James

My first reaction is very negative. When someone uses an introduction to apologize I suspect that they themselves realize that what they are doing is innapropriate.


I also have no clue why he thinks I'm an authority on Madness.

I've resisted the temptation to edit the many spelling/grammar errors in thsi post. Jhaggs, they make you seem unprofessional.

The point he makes is a good one, but is playordraw really going to help vintage? I know Brainburst would/could and I'd write for them just to further the format, but from what I've seen PlayorDraw is really commercial. That java game console they use is ridiculous.

My biggest concern is this: Is someone making money off these forums? I think the answer is yes. I have a problem with that. Why can't they just redirect people to TMD.? Profit.

But what do you think... I'm not completely against being a prostitute if it helps the format.

[Hyperion]

I got the same request from jhaggs. He probably used a form letter, had "Madness" in it for me, and forgot to change it.

I have no problem with complying with his request if their goal is in fact to spread Type I knowledge to other people (and told James as much), but I don't know much about playordraw.com either. If someone else does and is reasonably convinced that helping out in this manner would hurt TMD, I would reconsider, though I am not really sure it will.

[Vegeta2711]

I personally say fuck PlayorDraw. But that's just my opinion, it's up to you. If you think you can honestly help all the n00bs over there go ahead, but I think it's a lost cause.

Plus god damn is that site bad.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I'm of the opinion that they're essentially as decent a venue for articles as any (I'm assuming WotC keeps an eye on Brainburst and its links to PoD, so no serious loss there for my writing), but after a brief indulgence in their forums this evening, my risk of apoplexy was just too high--their problems are not centrally related to content, but to the fact that their website's design is terrifyingly suboptimal. For Type One forums, everyone should really be coming here, because this is the only place where stupidity is moderated into a rarity. No thread will escape the notice of at least one guru.

I don't begrudge SCG their forums because they are at least tolerable software-wise and because they have done such wonderful work publishing and encouraging Type 1 material, but even there those people are experiencing subpar discussion and old information. Any Brainburst forum is several steps below that, even if a bunch of experts tried to help them, simply because damn is that forum software awful. My Opera 7 nearly refused to load it, noticeably hanging-up on "ads.gorillanation.net" and requiring me to stop-refresh to get just about anywhere.

Thank goodness we have Zherbus.

[jpmeyer]

Wow I thought he sent me it first to be like "Is this a good idea?" before sending it out.  That's why I thought that mine said Madness, too.

[Phantom Tape Worm]

I for one plan on helping jhaggs out by posting on playordraw from time to time.  It's a fair request in my view and can be at least rationalized as a good cause.  Whether or not someone is making money on the site doesn't really bother me...but as we all know I have no problem prostituting myself  Of course, I'm just going to use it as an opportunity to plug TMD and steer more newb's toward us anyway.

[Toad]

I received it too. With Madness inside

I'll reply him soon, but I don't think I'll write something for PoD.com. We have T1 forums thanks to Zherbus, and the best thing we can do to thank him is to publish what we write as TMD Primers or Articles.

[jpmeyer]

What I said back:

"This is not gonna happen. Brainburst/POD have a very poor reputation with people here since they actively try to buy off both Zherbus and feature writers on SCG."

[Hyperion]

I don't think that is their intention though. I was very clear that I would be willing to make a single post but not take on any other obligations at playordraw.com (this is all he asked for anyway). I think they know better than to try to buy us off....I hope so, anyway.

It honestly didn't seem to me like it was asking for that much.

[Azhrei]

Those fuckers didn't send me a damn thing. Jhaggs, I challenge you to a duel of rapiers!

[Zherbus]

He sent me this:

Zherbus,

I have been recently been asked to moderate BB/pplayordraw.com's two new type 1 forums. Apparently, they have had numerous requests to rebuild the vintage scene and in response they have completely deleted their old t1 forums. I agreed to help them get started in a temporary mod role.

In looking at their community have have ALOT of young players with almost no relevant experience with vintage. I think it is extremely benifical for the entire vintate community to teach and recruit new players into the format. By assisting the BB community in teaching their young members the ins and outs of the format, I hope to build a more prominent awareness of type 1 with what is pretty much a type 2/casual community.

With that being said, from time to time I will reference some of the great posts from your site. I promise that I will be a hawk in giving credit where credit is due. I personally hate stealing others work, hence why I am PMing you with this message. I will also moderate in somewhat the same fashion as it is done here but definitly not as strict.

I think it is important to note that I am definitly not trying to copy the way that you have done things here....instead I feel that using some of your methods are great in teaching new players. I have referenced your site in both forum rules to direct these new players of other great sources of enough. Again, the BB community is young but are interested in learning about type1. If you have any concerns or suggestions please do not hesistate in letting me know.

Sincerely,

James

I didn't respond because what am I supposed to say; Good luck moderating 15 year old apes?

Really, I have no respect for the site because while some of the people who visit the forums there really just want to talk about magic. Meanwhile, the site ownership is only interested in generating traffic that will turn into dollars. Whatever - when the motivation moves from bettering the format and making advances to making money, then you know the site is going to have questionable content.

If you want to post or write over there, that's your own thing. Clearly the only motivation to write an article for them over TMD is money, but I just can't understand why one would want to post on the boards there.

To those who recieved the PM - do you consider this harassment? Would you like me to dish out a warning? If not, I'll let him and playordraw continue to hussle people here.

EDIT:

I think it's hypocritical for them to ask for our help after making it against forum policy to link to TMD. I believe it was even illegal to mention my site by name since it was 'distracting people from brainburst'.

[CrazyCarl]

PlayOrDraw tried to recruit a bunch of SCG writers.  They're bad mmmmmmk?

[Smmenen]

I didn't even dignify them with a response.

Something I noticed: The PlayorDraw forums and the Brainburst forums ARE THE SAME!!! LOLOL PWNED.

Steve

[kl0wn]

Hey, I'm always available to the highest bidder. Too bad they didn't try to recruit me, they would have succeded. Being washed-up and strung out is only an act I put on, I swear. I DID win the Type 1 side tournament last Waterbury afterall...

[Matt]

I think it's hypocritical for them to ask for our help after making it against forum policy to link to TMD. I believe it was even illegal to mention my site by name since it was 'distracting people from brainburst'.

I wouldn't have thought it a big deal until I read that. Cooperation is a two-way street, and if they don't like that they can continue to penetrate themselves in any fashion they see fit.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I totally just quit that crappy website for SCG. (Thanks, Pete!)

[Zherbus]

I love you Dr. Sylvan. I knew you'd see the light.

Those SCG people are okay in my book. They offered to merge with me, but there was no pressure, annoyance, or attempted retribution.

EDIT: I just want to mention that jhaggs has nothing to do with the upper tier management of AGN. He genuinely wants to help the forums over there, but hasn't the vaguest idea of who and how the show is run.

[Mykeatog]

Putting aside all the guys who are gonna make some money off the traffic, I think we should reevaluate this issue.

According to most of the players on this site, type one is the best damned format in magic, always has been that way, and always will be that way. Right?

Right?

Maybe not. Is it the format that we love, the community, or a combination of both? Assuming the most important part is the actual cards, the game playing, then I can't see a single reason to not go over to joeblowscardnetwork.com and write articles. The Mana Drain is the end all, be all of type 1- no one is disputing that. Allowing for other people to have a look at some of the best writing in type 1, will do nothing to hurt the future of our format.

Although I am not completely in favor of prostituting out our talent, I wanted to speak on behalf of the fastest growing format in the world, one that might need this little push to get over on Joeblowscardnetwork.com.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Their emails all have nondisclosure notices at the end, but lemme just say AGN took a while to give up on trying to stop me from quitting.

I think the behavior of AGN is the reason not to write for them. If they hadn't been so uncooperative with the other sites (Hoefling said he'd been burned in the past, their anti-linking-ness, writer-stealing campaign, etc.) then I would have had little reason to leave.

As-is, we have the uber-visible StarCity, and that funnels people right here, to the core of the format. I don't see any need to worry about visibility beyond that.

[Hyperion]

I posted something about Madness there last night. It took about an hour of my time and a lot of it was cut and pasted from the primer. Some people are making this out to be a bigger deal than it has to be.

I did it for the benefit of jhaggs and the members there, so if it helps them out in my mind it was well worth it, whether the site owners get anything out of it or not.

[Smmenen]

Actually, as loyal as I am to SCG, I'm dissapointed to see you leave PoD.  I think that having more sites is a good thing, and you were their foundation for Type One writing.

Steve

[ill_Dawg]

These guys were soliciting articles related to madness and didn't even bother contacting me.  Obviouslly they have no idea what they're doing.  I have no problem boycotting their site.

-=ADAM=-

[Kerz]

I don't see what the big deal is about writing for outside sites about type one. This site is where all of the good type one players go, anyway. What does putting an article on an outside site accomplish? You can reach out to newbs? The best thing you can go to a newer player is point them in the direction of www.themanadrain.com.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I don't see what the big deal is about writing for outside sites about type one. This site is where all of the good type one players go, anyway. What does putting an article on an outside site accomplish? You can reach out to newbs? The best thing you can go to a newer player is point them in the direction of www.themanadrain.com.

StarCity is like lighting up a giant neon sign for Wizards saying "WE ARE HERE". There's no way they're going to trust the forums here since anyone can express their opinion without it necessarily being good for the format, but they do take articles much more seriously, and use them to formulate policy. We want good policy, so unless TMD becomes much better known for article publication (outside of primers), they're not going to be here looking for the issues.

Oh, and rakso proved that reaching out to the n00b hordes is an a-okay way to expand the format. Which is good, because Type One's the bestest.

[Eastman]

Speaking of which, why don't we start putting more articles up here?

[Zherbus]

...because while I get people to write primer-type things for me, people who write articles want SCG to publish them. Since I only get primer material, that limits the amount of material that can be published to the main site.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I think Dave was suggesting this dynamic should be changed.

I'm trying to figure out if I even have enough worthwhile topics to do every week on SCG, but if I think of something special that could go here, I'll PM Zherbus.

[Smmenen]

I don't see what the big deal is about writing for outside sites about type one. This site is where all of the good type one players go, anyway. What does putting an article on an outside site accomplish? You can reach out to newbs? The best thing you can go to a newer player is point them in the direction of www.themanadrain.com.

StarCity is like lighting up a giant neon sign for Wizards saying "WE ARE HERE". There's no way they're going to trust the forums here since anyone can express their opinion without it necessarily being good for the format, but they do take articles much more seriously, and use them to formulate policy. We want good policy, so unless TMD becomes much better known for article publication (outside of primers), they're not going to be here looking for the issues.

Oh, and rakso proved that reaching out to the n00b hordes is an a-okay way to expand the format. Which is good, because Type One's the bestest.

Why does Oscar get to prove something, what about little ole me ?

Steve MENendian.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Ya know, that capitalization of "MEN" really seems like something I would expect JP to edit into one of your posts. :)

Rakso's First Article: 2001-02-28
Smmenen's First Article: 2003-06-25

*steps back from the blackboard, satisfied with irrefutable mathematical proof*

[st00mie]

While I can see how posting on other boards can get you a shitton more scrubs looking at your stuff, I think it can have a negative impact on the amount of exposure you get from experienced players.  I, for one, do not read any article posted about Vintage on StarCityGames or PlayorDraw unless the author(more specifically Smmenen) links to it on our boards.  The quality of material that is posted on these other sites is just so bad on average, there is very little incentive for me to even look at their sites.

I personally think its a load of bullshit for PlayorDraw to try to recruit our high profile members when it is against their policy to acknowledge our existance for fear that it may lead a person or two to a site that isnt their own.  I have a premium AGN account, and if any moderators of admins of TMD would like to use it, feel free to hit me up and I will share the info with you.

AGN, here's a spoon, so you can eat my ass.