UB LD.....Sui with power?

[serracollector]

Hello and good day to you.  As  of late me and a friend have been discussing monoblck sui in the current metagame and what could make it better.  You have your obviou choices of ChaliceBlack and Void and Sui, but we wanted to focus on the disruption and see what other choices are out there.  We mainly wanted to focus on the good ol Hand D', Land D'.  The obv choices being Hymn/Duress and Sinkhole/5 strip, but what else in todays metagame is optimal?  Well, in blue we have stifle for one.  We also have in blue the ability to find these utility cards asap.  We have the sac lands/brainstorm combo, and we have wishes, helping to find that Edict or Coffin Purge when it is much needed.  Now lets keep this deck in perspective with the current metagame and what we need to be able to handle:

Metagame Choices for Maindeck and Sideboard(or possibilities)

Powder Keg-moxen/tokens/welder/monkeys, half of the critters in fish/standstill, Goblins....need I say more?

Null Rod/Dampning Matrix-Workshop.dec in general, Scepter, Welder, Monkey, ToG, Dragon (iffy on dragon but stops the combo in threory)

Coffin Purge/Tormod's Crypt-Much debate over these two.  In the end we decided on the purge simply due to Crypt<<<Stifle, Purge Countered, ok flahsback etc.   Obv decks, Dragon, Possibilities in Oshwa and Madness
 
Control Magic-Oldie but a goodie.  May seem too expensive, double Blue, yes it hurts, but the havoc it still brings especially in todays metagame.  Welder, 6/6 wurm token, Mongrel, or any fat artifact creature, ToG (harder with the 200 counterspell back up), or anything just to save your ass for a turn or two.

Blue Elemental Blast-Blood Moon anyone?  Welder, Sligh, Goblins, Dragon (I believe u can destroy him before the animate dead is removed correct? thus ending the combo?).

Now the Creatures

Hypnotic Spector-I love him.  What can I say, he will always be a 4 of in my decks with 4 dark rituals.

Phyrexian Negator-wow, what to do what to do.  Once again a long debate.  Sligh has dropped tremendously in my area, but this has to be a metagame call in your own area.  We went with 4.  Either first turn beats vs control (gotta hate fire/ice though) or late beats vs those 1/1 rootwalla's and welders.  

Nantuku Shade-He has to be my favourite one.  But, with the Dampning Matrix, and his fragility as a 2/1 (sorry but I usually pump all out when attacking with this guy, and fire/ice is a wrecking ball) means none in our list.  Once again, metagame call.

Ophidian-Almost passed the bar.  Unfortunatly we both agreed that was better to use the search spells such as Brainstorm/Impulse over this.  In this deck  you need what you need and u need it now.  3 mana for an addtional card a turn is only good if your lucky enough to get what you need.

Card Drawers

Ancestral-duh.

Brainstorm/Impulse-We couldn't make up our minds on this.  Both are so good.  Storm with the fetches and Impulse all on it's own.  In the end a 3 on the brainstorm was decided.  Impulse is more for the "I need a counterspell now".  Not what we need in this deck.  Brainstorm helps hide whats important, put back what isn't, and just plain help to win

Standstill-This card has been showing its ugly rear in more and more decks of late.  Still testy.  With a keg on the board, having one of these in play seemed so nice, but as we are running 0 counters in this deck, the 6 searchers (brain/impulse) alon with necro and Tutors, seemed more than ample.

Fact or Fiction-Not to make it sound bad, but simply too expensive for this deck.  Can't say much more.

Necro-duh.

Skeletal Scrying-Seen this baby help so many times.  It easily replaces FoF.  And can get u even just a few cards when needed.

BroekedNess

Yawgmoth's WIN-see the word WIN?  Ok.

Mind Twist-duh.

Mystical/Demonic/Vampiric-Just Mystical and Demonic.  Why?  Vampiric is a mystical that costs u 2 life.  The only things i could get that Mystical can't is a creature (usually not needed till turn 2-3 anyways, which I shoud have one with brainstorms) and Necro.

Cunning Wish-This is not Keeper, yet we had so many targets for it, at least one seemed worth trying, maybe in the end I will drop Mystical for a second who knows?  But right now its just a tutor.

SoloMoxen-Just black and blue. I even decided to drop Sol Ring, as I would 9/10 rather drop something else for 1 mana that that.  If it makes mana it's either 0cc or a Dark Ritual

Mana Crypt-this deck is still sui at heart, not control, stifle is just more LD, with the nice addition of stoping a Key weld or a Nevy's Disk.

Now, since we have looked at the different ways me and my friend have looked at possible builds, let me construct this monstrocity of a deck.

UB Sui....Am I on Crack vs. 1.0

Disruption (21)
3 Stifle
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mind Twist

Draw (6)
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Necropotence
1 Skeletal Scrying
3 Brainstorm


Search/Utility (3)
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Cunning Wish

Kill (9)
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Spector
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Mana(not counting 5 strips) (22)
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
4 Underground sea
5 Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Stran


SideBoard
3 Powder Keg
2 Coffin Purge
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Skeletal Scrying
3 Control Magic
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Dampning Matrix


Thus, the decklist. Yes I know its 61 cards, but the 61st is Ancestral?  Seems ike a good excuse for me.  I wish I could add Time Walk, but what to drop? :shock:  Well thought out.  Tested in about 20 games vs powered Workshop/Stax, Keeper (Scepter build), and Dragon, on apprentice mind you.  Now please come with the commentary, and let the good times roll.

Serracollector.

[serracollector]

107 ppl look at my article and decklis, yet no one replies....even a bad reply would be nice.  

Serracollector

[Astro]

Ok, here's what I see going on.  If I'm a powered player why should I play this over lets say Tog, Mask, MUD, ect...  ???  Also, why should I play this over lightly powered Chalice Black?  

Another thing that I noticed is that your creature base is a bit light.  You can't effectively cut creatures to add more disruption and hope for better results.  Sure you can disrupt the shit out of your opponent, but without a beat stick on the table your eventually going to run out of gas.  I think you will find out that 75% of the time you draw a card you'll be wishing it was a Negator or some other threat.  Eight creatures is far to little.

[defector]

I would cut mind twist, I don't think it works in sui.  Your mana base seems dangerously light as wasteland+null rod would keep you from casting blue spells.  Hypnotic is weaker than withered wretch currently, I would move 4 hippies out and pur 4 wretches in.  I dicked aroudn with sui a lot, mainly b/w, but pushed other colors to.  None of it worked, combo just kills, other aggro decks out threat you and control can usually token/tog you.  Personally, I like the list, but I doubt it's T1 competitive.  Good luck,
defector

[doomhed]

I have to ask a few questions that are put to any deck that arises on these forums and should be answered before they are posted

#1-
Is this a true improvement in a current deck design?

A- No, it is not. this opens up the Nigh bulletproof manabase of suicide/chalice black by adding another color for card drawing. it alos makes use of a creature that is currently too slow in the metagame, hypnotic specter. sure, he was a house back in the good-ol' days, but right now, nantuko shade or withered wretch would be alot better.

#2-
What deck(S) would this have trouble against?

A- 5 Strips.dec, currently 6 (maybe more?) decks in the current meta have 5 strip effects, as well as every budget deck out there even close to worth playing. also, your multiple fetches will have you keeling over to stifle, which is being use in landstill, the most popular budget deck out there. landstill also has both fire/ice and lightning bolt, which make negator completely useless. Not to mention that Keeper, hulk, and many Slavery Build also run fire/ice either as a wish target and/or maindeck. I dont see this deck beating RandomDotCards or RandomDotAggro.

#3-
What decks is this Good against?

A- well, looking at your list, I could see this giving Parfait fits. It could completely shut down ICT, race EggCademy, and Annihillate(Sp?) Aluren/Cavern Harpy combo (wait, this is T1..).

#4-
From the first 3 questions, what are the advantages/disadvantages of building and using this deck?

A1-
Advantages-
Stifle maindeck, lots of discard, some card advantage, mana denial, Foils ICT

A2-
Disadvantages-
Weak creature base, weak mana base, weak late game, unfovorable matchups against all of the top decks in the field,  poor maindeck card choices, poor sideboard for general type 1 metagame, inability to utilise null rod/nonbasic hate effectively.

the answers to these 4 questions tell us whether it is worth exploring this archetype or variant. the answer is no. if you feel you have to have a suicide with a color splash, look into BgSui or Bloody Suicide.

[mask]

for sui to be competetive it must be able to lay down a lot more threats and have distrupion to make the seal the games away, or distrupution to slow down thier game while you drop a threat, with 8 creatures either possibly is not easily achieved.   splashing sui  takes away the explosivness. only one other colour comes to mind if you want to splash and that is red, mox monkey pup bolt rack & ruin, but again that build doesn;t seem that strong, in fact could be even weaker unless you are facing a lot workshop based decks (-slavery).  you are trying to add in a steady engie for a mid game, with sui i really hope there isn;t a mid  - late game becuase the chances of winning are reduceded greately.