Best/Cheapest way to get Power!?

[M.Solymossy]

Hi all.  Im 13NoVa... Im relitively new here, and i have always played Type 1, but never in a fully powered, and rarely in an ANY Powered, environment. I HAVE played, and beat, fully powered decks, but I have become aware of a type 1 tournament in my area (40 miles away), in Milwaukee, and I want to fully power out my deck.

being 17, almost 18, and a senior in highschool makes this rather tough.  i don't pay for my insurance, i just pay for gas, but i am in 3 sports (track and field currently), and i am inquiring about power cards. (the P9, mana drains, FoWs, Workshops, Bazaars, ect).

So im wondering,  
 what are decent prices on Played/Exc. Unlimited power?  I have owned a Mint Ruby, but i have since sold it.
Does anyone know any place in the wisconsin/Illinois area that sells power?  Or even Online, where i can find stuff like this?

Thanks for your help.
13NoVa

[Hi-Val]

The cheapest way is to win power! If you can get in on 5-proxy tournaments, you can play some of the cheaper decks and place high if you play well.

If you want an unlimited proxy tournament, there is one in Columbus, OH on March 13. Check the tourney forum for details. Top prize is a Mox, and that ain't bad!

Other than that, find a reputable dealer and trade/buy the power. Sometimes, if you have a great T2 collection, dealers will trade power for it because they can get rid of a lot of little cards faster than one big card. Good luck!

[Ric_Flair]

Here are your basic concerns:

1) Figure out which of the high priced decks you want to play and begin building towards that deck.  When you make this choice aim at a deck that has a lot of cards that are useful in a wide variety of decks.  Keeper's assortment of expensive cards are useful in a lot of decks, while Oshawa Stompy's are not (Lotus is always useful, but Emerald and Bazaars are not).  You can always aim at a really expensive deck with high priced but more narrowly useful cards like Madness or Stax, both of which require all the Power and 4 other cards that are each more than $125.

2) Find out if the tournament allows proxies.  Once you do this proxy all of the stuff you do not have and then fill in the blanks.  I would recommend proxying the most expensive cards first and filling in the blanks with less expensive cards.  So, for example, if you want to play Keeper, proxy the Lotus, the Blue Mox, the Black Mox, Ancestral and Timewalk.  This leaves 6 holes:  4 Mana Drains, 1 Library and 1 Mox Pearl.  These cards are easier to get than the other cards, so get them first.

2a)  Make sure you get cards in the right order.  A single Ancestral, in my mind is equal to about two off color Moxen.  As such here is the order I would recommend:  1) Ancestral ($300-350 for NM Unl); 2) Lotus ($550-600); 3) Time Walk ($300-350); 4) Mox Sapphire ($300); 5) Mox Jet ($290-300); 6) Library of Alexandria ($125-150); then the rest of the Moxen in order most appropriate for your target deck, each clocking in at about $200-250 a piece.  There are three caveats with this list.  First, if you happen to stumble upon a really good deal, like a card that is selling for $80-$100 less than it is on ebay, ignore the order and pick it up, even if you don't need it.  Trading an unnecesary Mox Pearl for other Power is much easier than trading up from Extended stuff.  Second, if for some reason you have $600 land in your lap, just buy the Lotus right away.  It is the most expensive card and it is nearly equal in terms of impact to the Ancestral.  Furthermore, it is always going up in price, so get it cheap while you can.  Third, if you are going for a deck that runs Workshops ($150 each), Bazaars ($150 each), or Masks ($110-125 each) (the tier 2 cards) I would suggest placing that playset in the #3 or #4 slot as they have a tremendous impact on their decks.  

2b)  Get the Blue duals.  Really, none of the other duals matter in a high powered Vintage environment.  If you have all the blue duals you can make most relevant decks, barring TnT, which has other limitations (Workshops).  I would recommend getting them in the following order: 1) Underground Sea ($25 each) (U/B); 2) Volcanic Island ($23-25 each) (U/R); 3) Tropical Island ($23-25 each) (U/G); and 4) Tundra ($20-23 each) (U/W).  Obviously switch that list around if your target deck requires, say, Tundras but not Tropical Islands like in Keeper.  After the blue duals I would get the following duals in this order: 1) Taiga ($18-20 each) (R/G); 2) Bayou ($15-18 each) (B/G); 3) Any remaining dual except for Plateau ($7 each) (R/W) and Savannah ($7 each) (G/W).

2c) Get the most beat (within reason), cheapest version of the card.  For example you can get a playset of Italian beat Drains for the price of two mint English ones.  Skip the Beta crap, the foiled crap, and the English crap if it costs more.  Initially you need to get the cards.  You can pimp out your deck later.  I would price Drains at $80 each for English NM and $65-70 each for similar condition Italian ones.

2d) Fill in the holes.  Demonic Tutor ($5 for NM Revised) has an enormous impact on your deck's performance.  Sol Ring ($3-5 for NM Revised) is really as good playwise as a Mox, sometimes better.   Strip Mine ($2-3 for NM 4th) is also very good.  And Yawgmoth's Will ($3-5 for NM Saga) is insane.  Pick up these cheaper but equally important cards right away.  They make a HUGE difference for very little money.  Force of Will ($8-12 each for NM Alliances) is another card I would strongly recommend getting.  
   
3) To get your foot in the door build a good budget deck.  I would recommend FCG because it is fast, has multiple roads to victory, and is not as easily hated out as other budget designs.  This will allow you to play in Vintage tournaments for prizes.

4) Once you have a good budget deck, begin working on your transition deck.  If you are building Keeper, EBA is a good transition deck.  It has many of the pieces that Keeper does, it can geometrically exploit cards like Yawgmoth's Will and Ancestral (which budget decks cannot do), and it can win in fully powered environments.  

5) Prowl the Internet for ebay deals, go to lots of tournaments, and talk to lots of people.  If it were not for friends and contacts I have, I would still have 1 piece of power (I bought only one of my 4 from a person I did not know personally).  The vast majority of Power is in the hands of nice, knowledgeable people.  Getting to know a few local dealers is also a plus as they can get things easier than you can.  Plus if you go through people you know you will be less likely to get screwed over.  Winning Power through tournaments is a good thing to do.  It improves your skill and is cheap.

6) Check the podunk, backwater local stores.  Jacob found a Mana Drain for $15 about 4 months ago in one of these stores.  Sometimes they just get stuff that is faddish and stockpile it.  Sometimes they don't raise their prices and you can find a Mox for $90.  

Those are my tips to getting started.  Here are places I would check:

www.trollandtoad.com
www.cardhaus.com
www.ebay.com

and if you are really hard up:

www.starcitygames.com (their prices are outrageous)

[Razvan]

I must say, Tony, this was the best post I have seen in a long time. I think you should make it the "getting power cards primer".

Bloody Time Walk is $350 now, too? Ugh.

[jpmeyer]

One other thing to note is that you can possibly trade for cards that are worth less than a Mana Drain, although you will probably need to trade up.  Once you get to that Mana Drain-ish level (this also includes cards like Berserk and so on,) it becomes very difficult to find people that will be willing to trade down.  If you even can find someone who is willing to trade down, you will probably many times the cards' value in order to obtain it, at which point it probably isn't even worth it.

[Smash]

@jpmeyer
You don't have to give that much more value.. if I have a $300 mox, I trade for $350 in stuff.  Just as easy for me to resell 50 cards as 1 mox. (And $50 free is fine with me)

I would say get time walk pretty late, it any but combo decks it cam very easily be cut (off color moxes are usually better).

Up there Dan Bock sells a lot of power, but he makes you pay for it.  I believe they have some power tounries up there.

Down in Champaign IL we have a 5 proxy power tourney every month or 2. We also have someone who sells power cards for a good price.

[M.Solymossy]

yeah i know a guy who will sell me a played Time walk for 120, a played recall at 160, twister at 140, moxen at 120, and a MINT unlm.  Lotus at 450...

and i have the Y.Will, force of will, Sol ring, and some of the other fun stuff i see played in a lot of decks... (elemental blasts, sinkholes, mox monkeys, hippies, fetches, Antiquities Strip Mine, wastelands, ect)


My next question is, if i go to gencon can i get really good prices on this stuff, and the workshops and such?

[Jacob Orlove]

yeah i know a guy who will sell me a played Time walk for 120, a played recall at 160, twister at 140, moxen at 120, and a MINT unlm.  Lotus at 450...

Get the Walk, recall, and Moxen ASAP. Those prices are ridiculously low, and you won't find them for that price anywhere that knows what the cards are worth. The lotus is a good deal too. The twister probably isn't worth it unless you need it for a deck; it's a little cheaper that it might otherwise go for, but not by much, and cheap twisters are easier to find than the others.

The one concern is that they might be fakes. http://www.apathyhouse.com/mtg/fake/index.php gives you some good tests to check and verify that they're real.

[Smash]

Gencon tends to be high priced. Sometimes you can rip dealers, I ripped the guys across from SCG (got 2 workshops for $65 each).

[M.Solymossy]

no i don't think he'd rip me, but i will always be alert.

he's a friend of mine who stopped playing type 1, but still collects.  He has anywhere from 7 to 12 of any one piece of power (besides lotus, he only has 4...)...   Grafton Wisconsin has NOBODY who can afford or who is even REMOTELY interested in power.  Well i am saving for it...


the guy only plays type 2 now currently, and meanders a little bit into extended... i'll deal through him.


yeah i've talked online to dan back, he does make you pay for them, but he is reputable, if anything.... so idk maybe i'll go to him.

[The M.E.T.H.O.D]

@13nova try and buy at least 2 pieces of his power at the price he is offering, the ones you don't want the most sans twister, and sell them on ebay.  use the money to clean up the rest of his power and purchase some other stuff you need from other sources.

[johnstown713]

wow I want in on those prices.  I would cry if I found those prices around here they are so good.  Whatever you don't get send my way especially the lotus. :lol:

[Moxlotus]

yeah i know a guy who will sell me a played Time walk for 120, a played recall at 160, twister at 140, moxen at 120, and a MINT unlm.  Lotus at 450...

and i have the Y.Will, force of will, Sol ring, and some of the other fun stuff i see played in a lot of decks... (elemental blasts, sinkholes, mox monkeys, hippies, fetches, Antiquities Strip Mine, wastelands, ect)


My next question is, if i go to gencon can i get really good prices on this stuff, and the workshops and such?

Buy it all. Period.  Borrow money from your parents if you have to, pay them back by selling some of it back over Ebay.  Seriously, if I found someone who would sell me that at those prices I would shit myself

[blankpagez]

Get the Black Lotus and the Ancestral Recall first. Those two cards are the hottest and most sought after cards in Magic. Once you get those two, save up some more to get the other moxes and such.

By the way, I don't wish to be intrusive or anything but I wish to ask about a some what similar question. I have come upon a website selling power. All the prices of te power are $50-$70 lower than those sold on EBay. I was wondering, it ther any way to check out on the website ? How can I find out if the site is a fraud or selling fake cards or maybe they are actually selling power at those prices ? Is there anywhere or anyone I can turn to for my questions ?

I am sorry for jamming this into your post 13NoVa. Didn't really mean to offend you.

[Smash]

Get the Black Lotus and the Ancestral Recall first. Those two cards are the hottest and most sought after cards in Magic. Once you get those two, save up some more to get the other moxes and such.

By the way, I don't wish to be intrusive or anything but I wish to ask about a some what similar question. I have come upon a website selling power. All the prices of te power are $50-$70 lower than those sold on EBay. I was wondering, it ther any way to check out on the website ? How can I find out if the site is a fraud or selling fake cards or maybe they are actually selling power at those prices ? Is there anywhere or anyone I can turn to for my questions ?

I am sorry for jamming this into your post 13NoVa. Didn't really mean to offend you.

If it's too good to be true, it often is.

Look how legit the site looks. Does it have a storefront? Do they take CC? If both are yes, charge them up - you can always persue a chargeback. If you never take a gamble, you will never score big

[johnstown713]

so true
This post has no content. This is the open type 1 forum; if you have nothing to say, don't post.
-Jacob

[blankpagez]

Smash wrote :

If it's too good to be true, it often is.
Look how legit the site looks. Does it have a storefront? Do they take CC? If both are yes, charge them up - you can always persue a chargeback. If you never take a gamble, you will never score big

According to the website, the have a store address and on the site it does states the store hours. The prices are not really low but they are just slightly cheaper compared to EBay. Even other stuff from theirs are way cheaper compared to EBay stuff like Mana Drain or Nether Voids.

I don't have a credit card so I have to be very careful how I send the money or else I will get burned.

Anyone else here can advice me on how to check this site up ??

[eddavatar]

Best way to do it is: go to your local dealer and SNATCH ANY POWER YOU CAN SEE.

If it doesn't work, as your powered friends if they got extra power to sell or trade.

Ebay as last resort.

That's exactly what i've been doing. I've started from no power to 6 pieces now (including lotus and all blue-related power sans twister) and i've spent not too much more than 1000 so far. I've asked my local dealer for power EVERY WEEK and bought ancestral for 210 last november and sapphire for 180 a month ago =)

I've also traded my whole nether void deck for a mint walk. (i kinda miss my voids tho =( ) While I bought  f**ked up alpha/beta jet/emerald and a pretty nice lotus off my friend for combined of about 700 in seperate occasions.

So yea, just have patience but yet be insistent, power will come to you.

[johnstown713]

I noticed that are really nice way to get power fast is to get it from kids at tournies.  I see this a lot and the prices are awsome.  Just make sure they are real.  Lots of kids go to type 1 tournies and I have almost always seen someone willing to dish them out pretty cheap.  Good luck.

[M.Solymossy]

Hey all thanks for your input it helps a lot im planning on playing in some type 1 events this summer and travelling and hopefully working 40 hours a week at 10 dollars an hour will be a huge plus to my power  =-)

And to whoever thought i would be offended by his posting a question here, Don't worry about it,  other people's questions help me too... because i learn more about things too...

it's like a FAQ page  =-)

[TimeBeing]

I think talking to local and smaller dealers is the best bet. Even emailing some Internet dealers that have cheap prices, could turn up some power.

I got almost all my power buy asking dealers who do more T2 and 1.x if they have power, and they would dig stuff up from in the back. Stuff they just bough that they will flip for the quick 20-50$ for some beat up stuff they can't get rid of.

I also found a guy at Gen Con Socal that traded me for Type 2 stuff. His prices for his mint Ancestral and Lotus was high, and he valued a lot of my cards a little low. But trading 900$ is t2 stuff wasn't hard. Now I have a second recall and lotus. It will be a lot easier to get 4 Firecats again, or another Platinum Angel (if I ever need them) then a Recall, . (Note I did have a Bazaar and beta Mask to get a quick $200 off that price. side note the mask I traded off some one who doesn’t play type 1 for like 25$ in cards and the bazaar I picked up right before they went threw the roof)

So bargain hunt, and always snatch up a bargin. My first power was the under used Mox Emerald but it was Super Mint and a good price at the time. Also t1 Tournaments always have people with power, some to buy some to sell.

Now off to pimp my deck, who’s got English drains....

[DEA]

i probably have enough stuff to trade for a full set of power, but goddamn, you hardly find power in my parts that people are willing to trade away rather than send overseas

it's all the europeans fault, i tell you, that and their high exchange rate and their hankering for moxes

[neophyte]

Hmmm. You can't blame the europeans or americans. Traders being traders, it's expected that they go for the highest bidder. If you can match the price or trades of the europeans or americans, I don't mind trading to a local. Since it's less troublesome.

[Raven001]

Ric_Flair wrote

If you are building Keeper, EBA is a good transition deck

What does EBA stand for?  

other than that what a diff between canadian prices and merkin ones..

[jpmeyer]

Ric_Flair wrote

If you are building Keeper, EBA is a good transition deck

What does EBA stand for?  

other than that what a diff between canadian prices and merkin ones..

It stands for "Dump Truck"

[Ric_Flair]

JP is such a cut up.

Eon Blue Apocalypse.

But yes, Dump Truck is a direct rip off EBA, sans power.

[Chaos Blade]

I know alot of people are going to disagree with me or flame me for saying this but I think power needs to go down drastically with some other cards. Also it will let more people get into type 1 and stop from what I am seeing one group of people hoarding the power. Yes I know most of you will disagree with me becuase you have power but look at it from the point of view from players in there teen age from 13-17. ALOT of these future players will end up quiting becuase they will never assume the amount of money to buy power and many will have other goals to use there money on like cars and gfs.

 If we really want Type 1 to grow then something has to be done about this to get these teenage players in the game since we are the future of the game, and many people who already have the power are the ones to usually win it and thus stoppping a stream line of players. That could be one goal of getting power or a "theory"

[Smash]

I know alot of people are going to disagree with me or flame me for saying this but I think power needs to go down drastically with some other cards. Also it will let more people get into type 1 and stop from what I am seeing one group of people hoarding the power. Yes I know most of you will disagree with me becuase you have power but look at it from the point of view from players in there teen age from 13-17. ALOT of these future players will end up quiting becuase they will never assume the amount of money to buy power and many will have other goals to use there money on like cars and gfs.

 If we really want Type 1 to grow then something has to be done about this to get these teenage players in the game since we are the future of the game, and many people who already have the power are the ones to usually win it and thus stoppping a stream line of players. That could be one goal of getting power or a "theory"

Do you know what econimcs is? The more people you get in the game, the more it goes up  

[Chaos Blade]

Yea I know what enomics is. Its sad to. If we fidn a way to someone let more power in and drop the prices MORE AND MORE players of my age group will join and end up being future players. But if we let one group who have the power keep winning it then it will just discourage a huge amount of players. Yes they can play budget decks but whats the chance that they will actually win? It is very low. Something must be done.

[RoadTrippin]

All knowing Chaos Blade, how do you propose we just magically make all the prices lower?   I think 90% of players would love it if something happened that had the end effect of T1 staples lowering drastically in price (short of WotC going out of business) i.e. reprints, proxy legality, etc (I'm not trying to start a god damn debate on these topics, just citing examples).

Power prices will obviously be as high as people are willing to pay, forever.