GAT vs. Slavery- GAT players how do we win this one?

[Ultima]

It has become apparent to me that after alot of testing, and seeing the recent and prominent variants of slavery coming about, i have several observations.

1. This is hands down GAT's worst matchup.

2. Both versions of slavery have sufficent hate after boarding to still overpower the GAT player.

3. While red brings more hate, its still very difficult to beat slavery pre/post board.

Specifically the things that cause the most problems for GAT-

1. Pentavus
2. multiple Welders
3. Bloodmoon

Very simply, Slavery beats GAT to such a degree, workshop prison is a dream compared to this match.(For those GAT players that have tested alot against prison, you understand what I mean)

I understand that there are always gonna be those matchs where you should just let the rest of tourny beat that deck, but since Slavery is tier 1 right now and usually makes the top8, its not one of those bad matchs like suicide that just go away.

So guys, what do we do about this one?  Suggestions? Experiences?

[Aeneas]

I haven't tested much against Slavery, but I have tested against wMUD and I know how it wrecks GAT.  To help cope with the board dominance wMud gets I have brought in a second Pernicious Deed.  It clears out artifacts and Welders alike.

Best of Luck,
Matt Kent

[Ultima]

The thing is, WMud is still a very winnable match because of Deeds and Hurkyl's Recall.  Both of these are really enough most of the time to win against Prison because of its inherent inconsistency.

Slavery however is far from inconsistent and can get around both of these effectively.  Deed is not as good against Slavery because of Gilded Lotus and it has Counters / Removal when your trying to recover from the deed as well.  The slavery player just needs another slaver or welder to win while you have start all over again.  If they manage to slaver you early enough they'll make you recall yourself to waste it.

There has got to be something I'm missing for this match.

[Hi-Val]

Hmm. Smothers/Edicts for the Welders and Stifles for the Slavers. I am running Annuls in my Landstill to deal with Slavers, they might be a possibility for GAT, being U and all and being able to take out Gilded Lotuses as well. Would Energy Flux work at all? It seems like it would at least slow them down. Oxidize is also CLUTCH here.

[Ric_Flair]

This is a good question.  GI or Dave might have a better answer than I do, but thus far the keys in my playtesting have been these hints:

1) Play aggressively.  You are now the combo deck.  Get Tog ASAP and go for the kill.  

2)  Force the Welders.

3)  Up the Deed count.  Anyway to get Welder into the board is a good thing.

4) Add Smother to your sideboard.  Also I have gone so far as adding [card]Vendetta[/card] in an effort to combat creatures.  

Here is a SB I have tried a couple of times when fear Welder based artifact decks:

2 Smother
2 Vendetta
2 Naturalize
1 Oxidize
1 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Null Rod
1 Berserk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Coffin Purge

5) Add 4th Duress to the MD.  This allows you to go combo faster and makes problem spells go away.

This is a very tough matchup, there is no doubt.  Workshop's aren't GAT's friend.

[Ultima]

Well, the thing is my GAT build is slightly different than those of the norm.

I run a more aggro-combo build with fastbond.  Therefore, I don't play duress MD.  

This is my current board:

1 Berserk
1 Oxidize
1 Smother
1 Plaguebearer
1 Stifle
1 BEB
2 Naturalize
2 Pern Deed
2 Coffin Purge
3 Duress

I have heard you say you use Vendetta, Ric, and Dave tells me about Dry Spell.  I think the superior choice to both of these is Echoing Decay.  I am having some difficulty deciding which is better -Plaguebearer or Echoing Decay.  I play the bearer right now because of Mask but that could change.  Echoing decay is good because its wishable and can sweep the board of soliders, goblins(welders especially) and other miscellanous guys like multiple rootwallas.

I understand the other points though about playing aggressively and being the combo deck.  My build plays much more readily that way and in many matchups, but its still a bitch play Slavery and Workshop(Prison mostly, I can beat TNT pretty consistently)

[eddavatar]

I've been running aggro GAT these days. Duress have been out ever since Long.dec died. And I found the red splash indispensable. I've been maindecking 2 Fire/Ice and it's just priceless to see a workshop player's face when they take that one damage (not to mention killing xantid swarms as a side benefit)

Anyhow, my current sideboard specifically tweak to maximize my chance against anything that runs welders.

1 Berserk
1 Fact of Fiction
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Fire/Ice
1 Artifact Mutation
1 Energy Flux
1 Naturalize
1 Smother
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Compost
1 Coffin Purge

I believe having a dryad up early on is the most crucial thing for the deck, so more cantrips = win. Play really aggresively.

[jpmeyer]

[card]Vendetta[/card] over [card]Ghastly Demise[/card]?

[dmessiah]

Damping matrix might hurt your togs but your deck is mostly dryad beatdown.  It shuts down a lot of their stuff - slaver, trike, welder, pentivus.  If you don't like cutting off your Tog (which is a liability anyway if they slave you without recursion), maybe null rod is worth it - they have more artifact mana than you do.

I played the winning GM tourney slavery deck, and it was an awful matchup for me too (essentially Hyperion's Madness build); the second game I almost pulled out due to first turn Tormod's Crypt, Ground Seal.  Ground Seal is sick against Dragon, too.

Be aware annul lives in the sideboard of slavery to combat hate.

[Aeneas]

I was gonna recommend the Dampix Matrix myself to shut down their utility.  Hurting your tog could be a liability, but if you fear Slavery that much I think it is warranted.  

Running multiple ground seals in the sideboard also sounds like a very solid idea.  It is easier to get under a counter wall, it cantrips, and it doesn't hurt your tog.

[The Atog Lord]

If you want to see a deck which does a great job hating Slavery, check out OStompy. Andy's Madness build is a good matchup for me, whereas OStompy is my worst matchup. The difference is the hate. Maindeck, OStompy uses Null Rod and Root Maze to hurt Control Slaver's mana and shut off Slaver itself. After boarding, things get even worse with the artifact removal, graveyard hate, and Ground Seal.

[dmessiah]

Two more random ideas.  Viridian Shaman for Moon (you like to beat down; of course for GG he's pretty uncastible under it) and Gilded Drake for Welder + Fat.  Stealing a Welder can wreck their board position.  If you try stealing his Pentivus and it fizzles, you get a 2 cost 3/3 flier to answer his 5 1/1 fliers.  Plus it's blue and it pumps Dryad.

[eddavatar]

dmessiah: you don't know what you are talking about do you?

You can never ever get the gilded drake yourself. If the guy kills his own pentavus, gilded drake has to be sacrificed. Still, giving your opponent for a 3/3 flyer is still pain in the butt. Why not just RUN the welders themselves?

Viridian Shaman's 2G, not GG. And what does it have to do with Blood Moon? I believe you mean Zealot, but for 4 mana you have better things to do.

Btw, I'm starting to consider if welders are viable in the sideboard.

[Zhindel]

@atoglord

If OStompy is that bad of a match-up, do you write it off and focus on more winnable match-ups?  Or do you use up the open side board slots in your build to help with the match-up?

[dmessiah]

Yeah, you got a point about the gilded drake.  Guess I didn't read the whole damn thing.  Bummer.

But man, welders in the sideboard sounds a bit extreme.

[The Atog Lord]

Zhindel,

Hibernation deals with most of OStompy's threats. If the deck is popular, it might be worth boarding.


dmessiah,

Do you mean Zealot? Won't the double green be rough on the deck?


On boarding Welders, would something such as Ground Seal be a better way to handle Welders than having Welders of your own? I'm not sure Welder has very much synergy with the rest of the deck.

[Gabethebabe]

I hear
- Vendetta
- Dry Spell
- Ghastly Demise
- Echoing Decay

I think all are inferior to:

Snuff Out
3B
Instant
If you control a Swamp, you may pay 4 life rather than pay Snuff Out's mana cost.
Destroy target nonblack creature. It can't be regenerated.

[Rico Suave]

Running Welder SB does not stop them from hardcasting Slaver and activating it.  In fact, it helps them because now they can use your Welder to constantly recur their Slaver.

Something like Null Rod or Damping Matrix are much, much better.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I hear
- Vendetta
- Dry Spell
- Ghastly Demise
- Echoing Decay

Isn't [card]Dry Spell[/card] a Sorcery, rendering it useless?

[Ultima]

I think the right choice for BGU GAT is echoing decay.  The reason being that, you're not looking for another removal spell for 1 guy, you're looking for a WISHABLE sweeper.

If you just want another removal spell than just another smother would be the most practical.  Dry spell is a sorcery which is why i think its inferior.  Vendetta will cost you more than you want to pay.  Ghastly demise is too situational considering how fast Slavery or any workshop deck can get MULTIPLE welders.  Snuff Out only clears one guy and its a solid 4 life to pay, vendetta has the same credibility because 4 life is not a good medium between them.

Decay is wishable, and sweeps- WELDERS, soldiers, rootwallas, depending when even Shades are a target, etc.  IMO Decay is the superior choice for a sweeper removal spell.