[Card Discussion} Darkstell Brute....Merit in t1?

[serracollector]

I have recently been playtesting darksteel brute in my Landstill deck, 3 of them, and so far it has proven to be quite useful.  It works as an alternate kill, it has to be swords, it is easy to activate with Mana Drain mana, or cast early game, it doesn't die under disk, it ALWAYS fuels academy (if u choose to run it) and it makes one more thing your opponent has to get rid of before they start trying to swords your lands.  Over all I find it quite nice.  Please comment on this idea, am I nutz?  Or could this actually work?

[Razvan]

It's not a bad idea, but it has a few problems:

1) It requires mana to drop
2) It requires mana to use
3) It breaks standstill
4) Landstill rarely uses 4 Mishra's Factories and 4 Conclaves (4/3 is the general consensus, alternating). I am not sure if more creatures are needed.

I have never heard of anyone using the academy in landstill.

So I would have to say no myself, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[Arrg]

I acutally tested this today, and I was rather impressed. He is a nice mana sink, and surives your "Oh, shit I'm in trouble better reset" button in Disk. He is a never dying blocker and a good option in the UR versions of Landstill. I don't feel he belongs in the UW version because they have Decree of Justice to fill his slot.

[serracollector]

Yes this is built for the UR version.  Another great thing about it is that it  is great in the mirror, blocking Factories all day long, not dying to their disk or fire'/ice.  Also, saying it breaks standstill is like saying disk breaks stanstill.  It only cost 2 to get out.  U drop it turn one or two followed by a stnadstill its not just a 2/2 that u get to draw 3 if they try to kill it, but a 2/2 that is almost impossible to kill anywyas.  and 3 mana to activate for a "unkillable" mishra is some good to me.  Landstill is  usually a late game finisher anywyas.  So haviong to pay 3 to activate is not a biggie since u can just wait under the standstill.

[Meddling Mike]

Yeah, the problem with darksteel brute in landstill is that:

1) he's two mana, at two mana you're going to want to do such  crazy things as dropping a standstill.

2) When you've got the whole standstill thing under wraps, you're already using mana to activate your man lands, that, on top of the fact that you can't tap your man lands makes sacrificing 3 mana a turn to repeatedly activate this guy is asking alot.

[Razvan]

Also, saying it breaks standstill is like saying disk breaks stanstill

No. You Disk only when it's needed. You will need, at some point, to drop a kill condition and... you know... start killing? There's a difference.

I didn't say it'll be bad. Just I am not sure...

[Jakedasnake]

When you've got the whole standstill thing under wraps, you're already using mana to activate your man lands, that, on top of the fact that you can't tap your man lands makes sacrificing 3 mana a turn to repeatedly activate this guy is asking alot.

Faerie Conclave needs three mana to attack for two (well, two to activate, then itself), so this is a pretty weak argument.

However, it can be countered (obviously), and it can't be played through a Standstill to apply pressure like a Man-Land can.

But who knows, 1-2 could be interesting, considering that Wasteland doesn't hit it, and is basically only vulnerable to Swords.

[xaos]

Faerie Conclave needs three mana to attack for two (well, two to activate, then itself), so this is a pretty weak argument.

You just barely missed the point.  It is very true that three lands tap to activate the Conclave(and two for the Factory). Between those and your strip base, when was the last time you had an EXTRA 3 mana available during the attack step?  Even if I'm not holding mana back for Instants during their turn, I always find I want even more, not being able to activate another Conclave or two already on the board.

[Meddling Mike]

Faerie Conclave needs three mana to attack for two (well, two to activate, then itself), so this is a pretty weak argument.

You just barely missed the point.  It is very true that three lands tap to activate the Conclave(and two for the Factory). Between those and your strip base, when was the last time you had an EXTRA 3 mana available during the attack step?  Even if I'm not holding mana back for Instants during their turn, I always find I want even more, not being able to activate another Conclave or two already on the board.

Thanks for explaining that for me xoas, couldn't have said it better myself. basically darksteel brute is flat out worse than conclave, he breaks a standstill or keeps you from playing standstill turn two, conclave really only costs you a land drop and does not break standstill.  Conclave's utility is also better for the deck's aims anyways, in a pinch, conclave produces mana, brute's only utility it being a blocker against some sort of aggro deck, which I believe is a lost cause for this deck. Granted if your opponent is drawing wasteland like it's his job, conclave isn't so hot and the brute will probably do better, but I'd certainly run conclave number four before the brute would even be worth considering.  Conclave also has the benefit of being uncounterable and has flying. The brute just really isn't up to par.