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boasnapes
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« on: March 31, 2004, 12:29:09 am » |
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My question is, if I were to weld my Mana Crypt out during my upkeep, would I still have to flip a coin that turn? What about with a tapped mana vault, if I were to weld it out during my upkeep, do I still take the 1 damage? I hope it's clear what I am trying to ask. Thanks guys.  boasnapes |
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Team Blood Moon. I am a cowboy.
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2004, 12:39:44 am » |
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Yes on Crypt, no on Vault. Crypt triggers at the beginning of your upkeep, so you don't really "get a chance" to do anything before it triggers. Vault's damage ability doesn't trigger until your draw step, however (the untap triggers at the beginning of your upkeep) so you can Weld it away before it pings you.
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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boasnapes
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2004, 01:22:23 am » |
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Thanks for making it clear JP. boasnapes |
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Team Blood Moon. I am a cowboy.
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Dante
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 1415
Netdecking better than you since newsgroup days
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2004, 01:01:35 pm » |
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Yah, if anyone's interested, the actual mana crypt text reads: Mana Crypt Color= Artifact Type= Artifact Cost= 0 PR(FS) Text (PR+errata): At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. If you lose the flip, ~this~ deals 3 damage to you. ;  : Add  to your mana pool. [Oracle 2003/07/01] |
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Team Laptop
I hate people. Yes, that includes you.
I'm bringing sexy back
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riggy
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2004, 10:32:14 am » |
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Just to clarify, if you put the Mana Crypt's ability on the stack, then weld it out, you still have to flip, but nothing happens if you lose, since the second trigger can never be triggered. There's a Q&A on star city regarding Mana Crypt and Umbilicus and Sheldon's answer says it works. I assume this is why. Correct? |
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2004, 10:42:36 am » |
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Wait, what? It doesn't matter if the card isn't in play if the ability has already been stacked.
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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riggy
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2004, 10:53:42 am » |
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Mana Crypt comprises of two different triggers. One triggered at the beginning of your upkeep saying flip the coin. The second (damage loss) is triggered upon the loss of the flip. I'm gathering this is what Shelden is saying. I got into an argument at my local tournament, and since there are 3 of us who are level 1 judges, we all ended up agreeing that this is how it works. Seeing Shelden's article confirmed it.
A card can't trigger if it's no longer in play.
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2004, 11:20:03 am » |
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That's not a trigger on the second effect. It's the way that coinflip cards are templated. I don't see how you inferred that Mana Crypt has two triggered abilities from this: Q: If I have a Mana Crypt and Umbilicus in play, during my upkeep can I take back the Mana Crypt to my hand before I have to flip the coin?
A: Yes. You control both triggers, so you decide in which order they go on the stack, meaning you'll decide in which order they'll resolve. |
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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DEA
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2004, 11:22:19 am » |
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Q: If I have a Mana Crypt and Umbilicus in play, during my upkeep can I take back the Mana Crypt to my hand before I have to flip the coin?
A: Yes. You control both triggers, so you decide in which order they go on the stack, meaning you'll decide in which order they'll resolve.
it's a badly phrased question which was answered in a cursory manner
the qn should have been 'do i have to flip for damage if the mana crypt is no longer in play', not 'can i take back the mana crypt'
you're misinterpreting his answers
ie, the 3 lvl 1 judges should go check the DCI judges mailing list instead of arbitrarily deciding what is wrong and what is right
PS it's all ONE triggered ability
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i need red mana
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riggy
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2004, 12:12:35 pm » |
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I don't see how you inferred that Mana Crypt has two triggered abilities from this: The judges didn't infer it from the Q&A, it was inferred from reading the card. The complete floor rules didn't have anything on templating coin flips. So after checking the Oracle text for Mana Crypt and reading the floor rules on how to randomize something, they looked at the card. Trigger 1: "At the beginning of your upkeep, flip a coin. " Trigger 2: "If you lose the flip, ~this~ deals 3 damage to you." But it's good to know that it's a wrong ruling. I was going to be taking bad knowledge to a major tourney with me. |
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Jebus
Full Members
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Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2004, 02:48:37 pm » |
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"If" never starts a triggered ability. "If" is just a condition of that particular trigger.
So, the Trigger deals damage to you if you lose the flip.
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RoadTrippin
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2004, 08:52:15 pm » |
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Q: If I have a Mana Crypt and Umbilicus in play, during my upkeep can I take back the Mana Crypt to my hand before I have to flip the coin?
A: Yes. You control both triggers, so you decide in which order they go on the stack, meaning you'll decide in which order they'll resolve. [/quote] Obviously, the card has one triggered ability. In the judge's answer, the "Both triggered abilities" he's referring to are obviously that of the Crypt and of Umbilicus- not "both triggers of Crypt". Hope that helped clear it up. |
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