[Budget] G/W Stompy (an alternative)

[bebe]

The most overlooked budget deck has been Stompy. There is good reason for this. Stompy variants traditionally have done well against control. Like Sligh they simply throw out too many threats too quickly for control to handle. However, we now have a different meta. Slaver, Stax, Dragon. Madness and TnT seem almost autolosses for the traditional builds. I've worked on a GW stompy for awhile. I almost took it to Ontario Vintage but in the end opted for combo instaed. I've playd this deck numerous times and I have beaten Madness, Dragon, Workshop and control with it. It loses to random aggro but overall has performewd well.
When I say I have beaten those decks I do not mean to claim that this deck wins every match against them. Just that it is capable of such wins and is competitive at the very least.
F
irst the deck list ...

4 Savannah Lions
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Hidden Guerillas
3 Basking Rootwallas
3 Skyshroud Elite
3 Quirion Ranger

4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
3 Wax/Wane

4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Forest
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

Hidden Guerillas are the MVPs of the deck more times than not. Nearly everyone plays artifacts today and if you drop this turn one you are in a strong board position. Against Workshop decks I will mulligan to it and/or Serenities/Null Rods out the side.  The deck just needs to slow down the opponent two or three turns to win.
The balance of the creatures all have their strengths and weaknesses. River Boa is godly agauinst control. Rogue E;lephants supply some beef. The rest of the creatures are just solid cheap threats.
Quirion Ranger is the one of the keys to the deck. Running such a shallow mana base requires Rangers and a smart player will atrget the Rangers for removal first. That said they still win games allowing fo combat tricks and extra mana.

The pump spells are rather obvious with expection of Wax/Wane which prvides double duty. I opted for StPs main deck because of a meta filled with Dragon, Madness and random aggro. Otherwise Rods would have have been chosen main deck in their place. They often are sided in.

So how does the sidboard deal with Tog, Workshop, Control etc. It is a mix and match of hate cards for all the popular arcg types. Serenity is a superb sideboard option. Although they appear counter intuitive with Rods, I really don't care if they destroy a Rod once I've handled the early game. Mother of Runes are another card that seem overlooked today and i can omnly say that they can be very useful against any aggro-control/aggro deck. So the sideboard ...

Sideboard:
4 Null Rod
3 Serenity
3 Absolute Law
2 Mother of Runes
2 Choke
1 Enlightened Tutor

RG beatz seems to the preference these days for an aggro deck along with Sligh. I have no problem with those arch types. I do feel that white adds enough utility though to make it a viable choice for the budget player.

GW stompy has done fairly well at times in the European venues but seems largely overlooked here in North America. It plays a style of aggro reminiscent of O. Stompy, U/g Fish and others decks of that ilk. It strengths lie in its utiolity cards and its cheap threat base. It lacks Rg's burn and disruption in the suite of strip effects but compensates with a number of very solid cards out the side that can hamper your opponents development.

Finally, I'm posting this because I've noticed a few entries on the subject that did explain the deck's function particularly well and included a number of sub-par choices. Although this build may be tweaked by others to perform better in their metas, i think it provides a good foundation to build on.

[Swanky]

Hmm.. This post has gone untouched!  The concept of playing G/W must make the weaker-of-heart faint. :)

A few things made me raise an eyebrow as I was looking over your list.  My first concern was lack of card-drawing.  Have you tried using Skullclamp (This seems to be the only credible source of draw for this deck available.)?  

Concerning card choices, I was wondering what made you go with Giant Growth over something a bit more permanent.  In a purported aggro deck utilizing green and white, I was a little surprised by the absence of [card]Armadillo Cloak[/card].  As far as Wax/Wane is concerned, could those spots be put to better use as either Naturalize or Disenchant?

I'm thinking about testing this deck.  I have a soft spot for rogue-ish aggro. ;)

[bebe]

Armadillo Cloak seems awkward for Type 1 and really GGs are instants that serve to both protect your creatures and pump them as a surprise. I will play instants first always. As such, they are much better than Cloaks.
Wax/wanes are not the best pump or the best removal but they serve two purposes and as such are always useful.
Skullclamps were considered. They seem a natural fit but this deck top decks better than any other deck out there. Mana is at a premium and there is never any to spare. I always seem to have a threat in hand. But they are propbably going to be tested by someone. I never liked them in this build.  
That having been said, I think that you can change a few cards for your meta. Try Cloaks and Clamps and se if you like them. I wasn't impressed.

[Swanky]

Have you considered using [card]Rule of Law[/card] as a measure against things like Rector, FCG, and TPS?  I'm assuming this deck isn't all that fond of combo in general, save Dragon.

By the way, where in Europe has this been popping up?

[Tobi]

This deck has done well here:
http://home.arcor.de/t1-heidelberg/pages/tournies/hd/2003/030906decks.htm

and here:
http://home.arcor.de/t1-heidelberg/pages/tournies/hd/2003/031011decks.htm

and here:
http://home.arcor.de/t1-heidelberg/pages/tournies/hd/2003/031129decks.htm

It's all in Heidelberg with not too many participants, but still consitently top 8.

[bebe]

Thanx Tobi. It is played here only by me. I actually like that as no one really expects or knows it well. I bring it out every three months or so and also find that I top eight with it.
Rule of Law might indeed be good. As it stands it has game against Rector and TPS - Null Rods and Stps ( bad for rector ).  But Rule makes sense. For FCG I rely on Wax/Wane, Mother of Runes, StPs and Absolute Law - not bad.
Personally, I like this deck as much as rg but that probably stems from my results with it and the amount of time I've played it ( I'm very comfortable with the deck).
What is best about the deck is that it really does not need any power. It is a true budget design that was never played with power cards or restricted cards ( other than Enlightened Tutor out the side ). No comprises are made to play the deck in its current form. I'm not sure why it is not played more. It seems to have been lumped with ten land Stompy which is really not the same deck and as such is deemed to be a weak arch type overall. I will write a primer on the deck one of these days if no else beats me to it ( I would like to beaten to it, BTW ).

[r_x_]

I must say I like your deck a lot. Only one card seems to be wrong place; Basking Rootwalla. Is there any reasons why play this over lets say Hidden Gibbons or Hidden Herd?

[bebe]

Rootwallas are cheap beatsticks. They are arguably one of the better creatures for a low curve deck. I am not as fond of Gibbons or Herds. I use Guerillas now over Gibbons as a meta call and only regret it when facing FCG - the other selections are no better. Now having said that, I must repeat - this is a meta deck for Toronto. I know it needs to be tweaked depending on what you expect to face. Rule of Law, Crypts, etc.  are all viable sideboard choices. Maybe Gibbons and Herds are better in your meta. This is a general build that certainly should be adjusted to your play style an environment.

Nice to see that people are finally commenting.

[Tobi]

This deck was the first T1 deck I had together after starting to play again by the end of last year, and I really liked it.
Though, I switched to RG Beats, which I found to be more flexible. But this deck is very strong indeed.

[martyr]

Even given that it's a meta-game deck, I'd be VERY surprised if you ever have the mana to pump Rootwalla. I'd run (in your version), an additional Quirion Ranger and an additional Skyshroud Elite instead of lizard-ey crap.

The Rangers are well worth running four of, maybe even more if you could, as they not only produce mana, but they protect your sources from Strip Effects, which is essential to your early development.

I think, if you were going to see a lot of GAT and such, you should up it to 4x Wax/Wane maindeck, as an answer (sort of) to Pernicious Deed.

Agreed on Giant Growth-the only card that comes close to replacing this is Bounty of the Hunt, and that stilll isn't quite as versatile, and is significantly worse than GG in this deck.

[Swanky]

I'm pretty ambivalent as far as Rootwalla is concerned.  Though part of me sees its application as a nice, quick little guy, I'd probably rather have a monster with more static power.

That having been said, it's probably been beneficial in some aggro matchups, as well as the times in which speeding up 'the beats' is necessary. :)

Hello, fence.  May I sit upon you?

[r_x_]

I tested the deck yesterday, and made few changes on it:

4 Icatian Javeliner
4 Elvish Scrappers
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Hidden Guerillas
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Quirion Ranger

4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
4 Wax/Wane

4 Oxicide

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Forest
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

Javeliners is probably the oddest card choice I made. It kills those Goblin Welders, Disciple of the Vaults (quite much Ravager decks around here) and evil Gay creatures. Elvish Scrappers are better than Rootwallas in my opinion. Oxicide, Javeliners and Scrappers give me quite good changes against Slaver/Stax/wMUD I see occasionally, not to mention Lattice.dec.

SB I'm planning to play has few tech cards like Damping Field, Absolute Grace and Hidden Gibbons against some random decks that get played around here.

My SB:
3 Serenity
3 Null Rod
3 Absolute Law
1 Absolute Grace
1 Rule of Law
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Hidden Gibbons

[bebe]

r_x - your deck is heavily metagamed. Twelve cards main decked for artifact decks. Which is fine as that is the beauty of theis arch type but I see more aggro - sligh, fish, rg beatz, tog etc., than that many artifact decks. I do like the Icatians though. Are they better/more versastile than Rootwallas? I need test this out.

martyr - your suggestions are a actually a build I've used prior to the lizards. I really have had no problem pumping up the Rootwallas when needed though. Yes Rangers are amazing - with so few basic  they do mkake sense as you need access to white mana. Four is not unreasonable at all.

[r_x_]

Icatians help also in aggro matchups. They kill that annoying Lavamancer, Curious Faerie not to mention Voidmage or most goblins like Goblin Lackey or Fanatic.

[bebe]

Yes but your deck has 64 cards, my friend. You need to make a choice of what to drop.

[r_x_]

So it seems to have...

Changes:
-1 Oxicide
-1 Elvish Scrapper
-1 Skyshroud Elite
-1 Wax/Wane

That should do it.  Thanks for pointing that out.

[Rad the Fishy]

Have you ever thought about using Troll Ascetic or would that be too expensive of a threat?

[Fuzzedball]

Too expensive. Ideally, you want low-cost low-maintinence threats and Troll is niether. Nice find to whoever found the Javleniers.

[r_x_]

Thank you.


Here is my updated list:

4 Icatian Javeliner
3 Savannah Lions
4 River Boa
4 Rogue Elephant
4 Hidden Guerillas
4 Skyshroud Elite
4 Quirion Ranger
2 Hidden Gibbons

4 Rancor
4 Giant Growth
3 Wax/Wane

4 Oxicide

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
4 Forest
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath

[AggressiveDude]

why no lotus petal?

[Swanky]

Lotus Petal isn't very useful in any deck with the exception of those based on a combo.  As posted decklists would indicate, this particular deck is fairly tight in its construction.  Fast mana sources are available through ESGs, and quite frankly those are all you need.  In most aggressive decks, you'll find that Lotus Petal is rather extraneous.

To _r_x (or whatever the heck the username is):  Oxidize*  That's been bugging me.

[r_x_]

Oxicide is metagame call. Metagame is full of Artifact based decks like Mesmeric Orb (don't laugh, its good),Slaver, Archbound etc. When metagame sifts to Keeper - Void- Whatever they are going to change on something else.

[zkyggen]

I would cut 1-2 Forest and put 1 lion and som gibbons in to it. Lions is about the deck's best creature, and Hidden gibbons is never a dead card.

[Rapalaman1]

Can someone please tell me why Rogue Elephant is so good in a deck that only runs 8 land?

[rogueplayer11]

Its a fat threat that can be dropped turn one and pumped every turn thereafter, putting the opponent on a very fast clock.  
Also, it isn't very hard for Stompy to find another land owing to the presence of Land Grant.

[bebe]

r_x -
you continue to spam this thread with 64 card deck lists.

rapalaman1
Stompy is designed to race. Rogue is a large threat. The problem with any Stmpy deck is that if you do not win fast, you do not win at all.  Rogue i9s an acceptable risk.

I personally would not main deck Icatian Javelineers, Scrappers or Oxidizes. I have four StP main deck, four Guerillas, and Serenity out the side for artifact decks. I do believe that that Rootwallas are possibly the weakest creature in the deck though so adding a Ranger and an Elite and a Wax/Wane would be a change that makes sense.

[Cpkrug]

I'm currently playing 3 winter orb and they are awesome! They are well worth cutting slots for since it locks down any control deck, and they never hurt you.

[martyr]

Also (in case you weren't sure about Rogue Elephant, still), Rogue Elephant trades with Juggernaut, and is just big enough to survive combat with Su Chi after a Wax/Wane. This seems minor, but it really isn't.

[zipykido]

Also (in case you weren't sure about Rogue Elephant, still), Rogue Elephant trades with Juggernaut, and is just big enough to survive combat with Su Chi after a Wax/Wane. This seems minor, but it really isn't.

Oxidize take both juggernaut and su-chi out just fine. With stompy, the only time i feel like i have total control is when i have more threats than they have cards in hand and threats in play. So you don't want to trade creature for creature. It's better to have a giant growth + rogue elephant taking out a juggernaut than trading a rogue elephant and playing another one.
R_X_:
The hidden creatures should be cut; 3x hidden gibbons is plenty. And how could you play white without StP?!!!! :shock:    StP is possible the best creature removal ever. How would you deal with platinum angel?

[GlockAndRoll]

The decklist seems really interesting, and random rogue aggro is always fun.. But one thing is just bugging me, is there some reason for not playing call of the herd? It seems like it would have a nice place in this deck, and has proven to be a powerful card. Just my 2 cents
-GlockAndRoll