Landstill, taking a 2nd look.

[BreathWeapon]

With the metagame adapting and the face of aggro evolving, I think its time to take another look at Landstill. Now that we have a much better view of the metagame as a whole, Landstill's MD and SB options need to be re-evaluated from the ground up.

After some thought on the matter, here is what i'm working on:

"Landstill"

Permission
4xForce of Will
3xMisdirection
4xMana Drain
3xStifle

When looking at the metagame, the three decks that best come to mind are HULK, Slavery and Twister. The one thing these decks all have in common is a reliance on Force of Will to prevent other decks from establishing their game. As FoW becomes necessary for a deck to consistantly Top 8, the stock value of Misdirection raises considerably.

Stifle remains one of the single most versatile utility cards at Landstill's disposal. Its a power house vs Storm Combo, Dragon and Rector Trix while doubling as Mana Denial and a Tempo establishing card.

Drain remains necessary for powering out the Disk and activating Man Lands.

Board Control
4xNev' Disk
4xSwords to Plowshares

Ultimately the most controversial path for Landstill to take is the U/w splash. Nevertheless, with Trinisphere and Chalice of the Voild in the format, Weenie Swarm decks such as Sligh have become increasingly unviable. The majority of Aggro threats Landstill has to seriously worry about are accelerated FAT, Tubbies/Masks, Togs, Dryads and the Madness critters. With almost every deck in the format using creatures in some form, Welders, Swarms Togs etc Plow is becoming less of a dead card vs the field as a whole. As far as the color splash is concerned, I don't find it to be a matter that is worth serious debate ... we have all been there before and i'm tired of the topic dominating Landstill threads. If you don't need the Plow just use Fire/Ice and Disk the FAT away.

Draw Engine
4xStandstill
4xBrainstorm
1xTime Walk
1xAncestral Recall

Brainstorm is with out a doubt one of the most pertinant additions to Landstill lists. The deck is at a massive deficit for first turn drops in comparison to every other control deck in the format. Far too often you are left completely inactive on your first turn of play, and this is simply not exceptable in a T1 control deck. Brainstorm accomplishes a number of things in the deck. Like Slavery, Landstill requires its draw engine to establish itself on the board, otherwise the deck will run out of steam. With out the Standstill, your left at the mercy of HULKS brokenness in the Control mirror. Unlike Tog, your deck is required to function around maximum synergy instead of "going broken." With Brainstorm, you increases your chances of establishing an early Standstill significantly and can now circumvent Duress with greater ease. Why play 5 Ancestrals when you can play 9?

Manabase
1xStrip Mine
4xWastelands
4xMishra's Factory
4xFaerie Conclave
1xLibary of Alexandria
1xBlack Lotus
1xMox Saphire
4xFetch Lands
4xTundra
4xIsland

In order to facilitate Brainstorm, the number of Fetch Lands must be increased. While this does diminish the decks ability to drop land by thinning the deck a little, Brainstorm often compensates for the "problem" accordingly.

SB options seem to be changing quite a bit. Annul and Null Rod have become increasingly popular and most U/w builds run Meddling Mages and Serenity in the SB. For me, DoJs and Balance are best left in the board.

Well, in a nut shell those are my thoughts on the deck. I think Brainstorm goes a very long way in improving the decks synergy and consistancey, and I am all ears for your opinions of the card in Landstill.

[Subaru]

Draw Engine
4xStandstill
4xBrainstorm
1xTime Walk
1xAncestral Recall

Brainstorm is with out a doubt one of the most pertinant additions to Landstill lists. The deck is at a massive deficit for first turn drops in comparison to every other control deck in the format. Far too often you are left completely inactive on your first turn of play, and this is simply not exceptable in a T1 control deck. Brainstorm accomplishes a number of things in the deck. Like Slavery, Landstill requires its draw engine to establish itself on the board, otherwise the deck will run out of steam. With out the Standstill, your left at the mercy of HULKS brokenness in the Control mirror. Unlike Tog, your deck is required to function around maximum synergy instead of "going broken." With Brainstorm, you increases your chances of establishing an early Standstill significantly and can now circumvent Duress with greater ease. Why play 5 Ancestrals when you can play 9?

[...]

SB options seem to be changing quite a bit. Annul and Null Rod have become increasingly popular and most U/w builds run Meddling Mages and Serenity in the SB. For me, DoJs and Balance are best left in the board.

Well, in a nut shell those are my thoughts on the deck. I think Brainstorm goes a very long way in improving the decks synergy and consistancey, and I am all ears for your opinions of the card in Landstill.

I think Impulse is better in Landstill because you can see deeper in your deck with it , it's just my opinion on this point. In my opinion,it's better for the Control match-up because you can find faster your Strips or drawer (often Standstill)

For the sideboard you can take :
Disenchant  or Serenity (depends of the meta-game)
CotV
Balance
maybe Maze of Ith (Tog, Aggro Shop)

I don't think Meddling Mage is a good option for this deck because the opponent can often deal with it

[wuaffiliate]

brainstorm isnt very good in landstill, its so much fun to draw it when you are running under standstill isnt it? . impulse and only in the number of 1-2 ive found to be usefull. ive run 2 impulse many times but i really didnt like them, i ended up running a 4th stifle and mystical tutor and added balance to the maindeck. i would much rather leave mana open for stifle turn 1 than for brainstorm.

29 mana sources is one too high for my liking. Lotus petal is a must in landstill also the early game is the most important. pearl is also important, any acceleration you can run will be worth while, i didnt run pearl for some time and i missed it. i was one of those who said it can be disked away so i dont want it. but its a necesary evil of sorts.

my mana base is as such:

        4 Tundra
        2 Adarkar Wastes
        2 Flooded Strand
        2 Island
        1 Plains
        3 Faerie Conclave
        4 Mishra's Factory
        4 Wasteland
        1 Strip Mine
        1 Library Of Alexandria
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Lotus Petal
        1 Black Lotus

thus far its been the best mana base for Uw ive used, it gives me consistant WW within 4-5 turns now for my post board humility and if i chose to make phatty angels with decree.

my counter base is basically the same but i run an extra stifle because its so good.

        4 Force of Will
        4 Mana Drain
        3 Misdirection
        4 Stifle

mystical finds me swords, stifle, ancestral, walk, decree, and balance, its good. swords doesnt need explanation its better than its been in some time. decree has great synergy and destroys the Ur mirror, and control in general, you can generally abuse decree more than you control playing opponent can. the rest is obvious.

        1 Mystical Tutor
        4 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Balance
        2 Decree of Justice
        4 Nevinyrral's Disk
        4 Standstill
        1 Ancestral Recall
        1 Time Walk

i dont think brainstorm is BAD persay, but i woulnt play it in a tourney.

the SB is were Uw gets alot more savage also with humility, serenity, seal of cleansing, righteous aura, crypts and sometimes mages. im becomming less and less of a fan of the mages, they are beginning to suck, looks like chants will be my new anti combo card.

[BreathWeapon]

Any non-land card sucks to draw underneath a Standstill, I really don't see how thats much of an argument against the card and its not a card aimed at the late game anyway. I used Impulse for a really long time, but I absolutely hated to be inactive on the first turn soo often. Your not always going to be sitting on a Stifle, and there wont always be a card to Stifle anyway. IMO, Landstill depends on Standstill soo much to assert board control that the Brainstorms simply seem like a necessity. If the Standstill is Duressed, Drained or FoWed thats simply game vs Tog all too often. Landstill's number 1 problem is getting out of the gate vs Tog, and thats what i'm trying to shore up with Brainstorm.

[wuaffiliate]

i disagree, if you are a bad enough player to let standstill get drained consistantly, you should be playing suicide black. you should not be droping a standstill without counterbackup when the have drain mana, thats a blatantly obvious play error.

impulse and brainstorm take up slots that can be better used as business spells, do you seriously want to have a brainstorm drawn when you have control of the game? ive found myself always having alot of early game, but them again i run more acceleration to help me in the early game.

if you want to be more active turn 1 add a 2nd mox and lotus petal, it makes a MUCH bigger difference than brainstorm ever will. brainstorm is a wasted space imo, the addition of more acceleration can be more effective.

all brainstorm does turn 1 is make you feel as though you are acomplishing something, it really doesnt DO anything. its a false sence of security some control players have been relying on for some time now.

[BreathWeapon]

When your looking down the gun of 4 FoW, 4 Drain and 4 Duress resolving Standstill is a pain in the ass. Unless you get the Standstill down as quickly as possible vs Tog you will not buy enough time to stop them from steam rolling you. Based on the deck's necessity to resolve Standstill it simply needs something else in the deck to go find it. IMO, Brainstorm is a Business Spell and i'm never unhappy to see it at any stage of the game. Calling Brainstorm a control player's safety blanket is going a little overboard, every quality control deck in T1 runs it for a reason.

Oh well, I guess I can just go and sleeve up my Sinkholes

[wuaffiliate]

thing is that if you add more acceleration your odds of an early standstill, which is what you want will improve. when playing landstill you only keep a hand that has either standstill or drains anyhow.

you can play brainstorm, i just dont think its a good idea, landstill isnt like every other control deck, its like the anti-control deck. it breaks so many control rules its not funny.

[Shock Wave]

every quality control deck in T1 runs it for a reason

That doesn't mean that it is appropriate to run in Landstill. Using that approach, every combo deck should run Memory Jar too. There are *reasons* why Brainstorm doesn't fit in Landstill and they've been beat into the poor bandwidth of this forum more than sufficiently enough for someone with a good sense of reason to understand.

[Subaru]

IMO, Landstill depends on Standstill soo much to assert board control that the Brainstorms simply seem like a necessity.

If you need a standstill Imlpulse is better to find the Standstill because you search deeper in your deck and you doesn't "lose" two draw with Impulse (you lose 2 draw with brainstorm because 2 cards from your hands go on the top of your library)
I say it another time Impusle is better in Landstill than Brainstorm (I have said that 10 time minimum and I have test Landstill with Brainstorm -without Impulse- and with Impulse -without Brainstorm-)

[proGaming]

Try Compulsion over Storm/Impulse, it's free draw under a Standstill and digs for answers when you need FI, Disk, Counters, etc.

[BreathWeapon]

Impulse and Compulsion are too slow and clog up the 2cc casting cost spots. I've played Landstill with Impulse before and I enjoyed it to some extent, but I just can't stand to be inactive on my first turn with a Control deck and thats the point behind using Brainstorm. I also have significant problems dealing with Duress from Tog, which Impulse doesn't stop.

[proGaming]

Impulse and Compulsion are too slow and clog up the 2cc casting cost spots. I've played Landstill with Impulse before and I enjoyed it to some extent, but I just can't stand to be inactive on my first turn with a Control deck and thats the point behind using Brainstorm. I also have significant problems dealing with Duress from Tog, which Impulse doesn't stop.

Well, if your name isn't Shock Wave and play Landstill like an actual control deck and not very aggressivly then Compulsion works very well.   In the past few days of me testing it I lost count on how many games I won with it.  In the middle game it's just so powerful to dig up lands, counters, whatever you need.  Not to mention it's pitchable to FoW and Mis-D.  The downfall is that it's in the 2cc slot which weakens you even more to CotV for 2.

Compulsion is unimpressive against Workshop decks but I have been liking it a lot against aggro and control.

[BreathWeapon]

I think Compulsion is a cool idea, its just not what i'm looking for. I think inevitably everybody has that one "jank" card they try and incorporate into Landstill. I use Brainstorm and playtest partners go "wtf," they use DoJ and I go "wtf." Its really the over all strategy of the deck thats important, Landstill can afford to move around 3-4 slots and still do fine.

[Ifflejink]

In my opinion, Teferi's Response works better than either Compulsion, Brainstorm or Impulse. It saves your manlands and draws you two cards in the process. Often times, it can have as much of an impact on the game as Ancestral. BTW, what about Trade Routes? It's like a Compulsion that can save your lands.

[firebird365]

Trade Routes has been tried before.. I think it's just too limited to really be of use. Stifles (and Responses) can stop their Land Destruction, and the Routes can't stop Stifled fetches, another major part of mana denial.

[Abakar]

I have been playing standstill for a few months now with very good results and from my experience, I found it very obvious that the draw engine should be modified in the following order of preference (ie: 1 is the best choice, 2 less efficient and so on):

1- Do not change anything
2- Trade route (without the disk, this would make the cut)
3- Mystic remora (in a scrubby metagame it can move to 1 as if it can stall your opponent and make him hold his spells it will be very efficient)
4- Impulse
5- Brainstorm

However, no change is really the way to go, the deck always allow you to keep a hand full with so many card advantage and a lot of ineficient cards from the opponent deck.  Why are you guys looking for draw or search cards, do you ever need it or is it simply because these are cards you play in "good" control decks so they should be in this one?

[wuaffiliate]

try AKs, i have a friend who has used AKs in Uw to very good results.

[Zanetanos101]

Has anyone tried using Petrified Field in their u/w landstill decks?

[Sandster]

Has anyone tried using Petrified Field in their u/w landstill decks?

In place of what?  The deck is already loaded with colorless mana producers; blue mana is still important.

[Zanetanos101]

True.. I was thinking instead of perhaps Wastelands, but that doesn't seem like a good idea.

[proGaming]

In my opinion, Teferi's Response works better than either Compulsion, Brainstorm or Impulse.

I run both Response and Compulsion/CoV (If I would go to a tourney tomorrow it would be CoV but Compulsion does have some promise).

RE: Petrified Field.  Yea, adding more colorless mana sources is a bad idea.  You already have Stifle and possibly Responses to stop Strips and with Landstill you need to consisently have double blue and single red (or white) by turn2 which is why a lot of the lists are running 3-4 Reefs.

[FireFall26]

Has anyone tried using Petrified Field in their u/w landstill decks?

Yes, I took the deck to two tournies and ran petrified field.  It was good, I never had problems with wishing it was a different land, and it usually turned into wasted factories, or another wasteland.

[Ifflejink]

Petrified Field doesn't really work here; as has already been stated, it's yet another colorless mana producer. Also, it usually just end up being another Wasteland, or a Teferi's Response without the draw 2 cards part.

[BreathWeapon]

I have a problem finding and resolving Standstill more than anything else in this deck. Either they don't show up at all, get Duressed with FoW back up out of my hand or all 4 copies sit at the bottom of my deck. I just don't think finding the Standstill is consistant enough. You really can't just sit around and wait to Top Deck the card, because you need it early to distort the opponents game plan and "synergize" your deck. I also have absolutley no need of Lightning Bolt at all. I'm not using it just because its a "good card," i'm using it because i've found another draw card to be necessary. Maybe Landstill just doesn't give me the same hands and mulligans as you guys *shrug*

[Machinus]

Is the preponderance of stifle (4x at hadley???) due to mana denial abuse like that employed by Keeper, or do people feel like these slots are dependable enough as combo killers? I really think two slots is enough for stifle, three really seems too much. Does anyone know where I can read the finals report from that tourney where 4x stifle landstill took first?

[Kowal]

Your biggest chance to win with this deck is to focus on your mana denial aspect.  Stifle is your wasteland for fetchlands, as well as protection for manlands.  I fail to see why this card selection is so odd.

[Machinus]

First of all, I don't think there are nearly enough fetchlands being used to justify a full complement of stifles. Maybe in a really control saturated metagame this could be useful, but I don't see that as being the case for major tournaments. Slavery doesn't run any at all, even. You can't cast stifle through a standstill. Further, the best protection for manlands is response, not stifle. It can counter any creature removal, any land removal, and any ability removal. Aren't situations where Stifle is more useful against combo more prevalent than against control?

[wuaffiliate]

4 stifle is very very good, stifle deals with more situations than responce does. responce is VERY situational, stifle is far less situational. playtest vs GOOD decks such as Slaver(both good slaver and workshop slaver), tog, FCG, Madness, Dragon, Draw7, and so on and you will see how strong stifle is.

[Shock Wave]

First of all, I don't think there are nearly enough fetchlands being used to justify a full complement of stifles. Maybe in a really control saturated metagame this could be useful, but I don't see that as being the case for major tournaments. Slavery doesn't run any at all, even. You can't cast stifle through a standstill. Further, the best protection for manlands is response, not stifle. It can counter any creature removal, any land removal, and any ability removal. Aren't situations where Stifle is more useful against combo more prevalent than against control?

Oh my, don't tell me you're debating whether or not Stifle is useful vs. Slavery. The card is an absolute house vs. almost *any* deck, especially when you're playing first. If you playtest, or even mildly contemplate that point, it will immediately become very obvious why it is a strong, versatile inclusion.

I have a problem finding and resolving Standstill more than anything else in this deck.

Well yes, sometimes that can be a problem. However, the majority of the time, you should be finding that you can gain an advantage by doing one of the following:

a) disrupting the mana base
b) attacking (works much better with 4 Bolts and F/I
c) resolving a Disk and gaining mass advantage (vs. aggro, perm based decks)

If you have 4 Standstills at the bottom of your deck, well, sorry about your luck. Impulse isn't going to help you if this is the case. Brainstorm and fetchlands may, but the detriments to the overall strategy of the deck far outweigh the benefits of shoring up this deficiency.

I really don't think restructuring the deck to fight Duress is a wise idea. Duress rapes control, that's a given. Even so, game 1 vs. Tog is very winnable. It's not in your favour, but the matchup gets much better after sideboarding.

[OPColby]

Question and comment for you, Shock Wave:

I run 1 Teferi's Response and 3 Stifle.  The Response will always come in handy, no matter what deck you're playing, but two in your hand = dead cards, usually.

What's good Tog sideboard, aside Maze of Ith and Red Elemental Blast?

I run four bolt and four fire/ice, so attacking is quite the option for me if duress gets rid of the opening mana drain/FoW/Misdirection.

My sideboard is as follows:

4 Red Elemental Blast  (Tog, Control)
4 Tormod's Crypt  (Dragon)
3 Maze of Ith (I often consider MainDecking one for a Mis'D, and putting the Misdirection on the sideboard)
3 Dream Tides (Against Oshawa Stompy.)
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (Oshawa Stompy and Sligh)