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jpmeyer
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« on: April 11, 2004, 11:16:42 pm » |
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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Dr. Sylvan
TMD Oracle and Uber-Melvin
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 1973
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2004, 11:19:52 pm » |
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I walked into this expecting it to explain how my spoof article made him lose faith in JP permanently.
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Eastman
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2004, 11:47:33 pm » |
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There exists another proven deck that can do well in a very powered metagame and can be played in five-proxy tournaments. by 'powered' he means 'inbred' right ? |
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Smash
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2004, 11:50:32 pm » |
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What other kind of metagames are there? Freaky like in germany?  |
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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?
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Caelestis
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2004, 11:59:50 pm » |
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One thing I noticed is that Back to Basics was never sbed in. Was that just due to the luck having worked it that way that you didn't face any deck that it is good for, or is it simply not useful?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2004, 12:03:28 am » |
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By "inbred" Doug also means metagame leader among good players if Mol and Antwerp are signs of things to come. Don't forget that is where Meandeck Slaver (including the awesome Smemnarch), Draw7, UG Madness and the notorious Belcher deck first appeared.
Hello Slaver, Slaver, Tog and Hate metagame! Good Times.
Stephen Menendian
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2004, 12:27:46 am » |
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Does Twister, Dragon and Landstill not show up in Columbus at all? The deck seems rather ill prepared for all 3, or am I just missing somethin?
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2004, 12:36:48 am » |
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Oxidize was completely insane against Slaver, much better than anything Red can come up with It seems that Gorilla Shaman is no longer red. |
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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Smash
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2004, 12:37:45 am » |
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Counters and null rods will beat twister enough. Good aggro can do ok vs landstill. Obviously dragon can't be too fun with nothing to save you besides 8 counters.
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Estne volumen in toga, an solum tibi libet me videre?
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Eastman
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2004, 12:53:46 am » |
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Don't forget that is where Meandeck Slaver (including the awesome Smemnarch), Draw7, UG Madness and the notorious Belcher deck first appeared.
Hello Slaver, Slaver, Tog and Hate metagame! Good Times.
Stephen Menendian Exactly, inbred. |
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Sytupal
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2004, 05:41:21 am » |
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Mox Monkey Got fired.
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
Team CCC.
Minsc And Boo And You!.
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mouth
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2004, 05:50:31 am » |
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Remember when people would suggest U/G Madness back on TMD 1.0, and Hyperion would yell at them? There hasta be irony there. Mox Monkey Got fired. Donald Trump references? Guh. |
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DEA
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2004, 06:35:48 am » |
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this reminds me of the last time i saw someone proxy meltdowns in the sideboard of a fully powered long  stupefying touches, meh :lol: |
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i need red mana
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Hyperion
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2004, 08:21:48 am » |
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Remember when people would suggest U/G Madness back on TMD 1.0, and Hyperion would yell at them? There hasta be irony there. Sorry, but I was unable to predict the Slaver archetype and ensuing metagame before Mirrodin was released. That's really the main reason to consider U/G now (which isn't to say it's not a well-designed deck in its own rights though). |
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rvs
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2004, 08:26:43 am » |
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Don't forget that is where Meandeck Slaver (including the awesome Smemnarch), Draw7, UG Madness and the notorious Belcher deck first appeared.
Hello Slaver, Slaver, Tog and Hate metagame! Good Times.
Stephen Menendian Exactly, inbred. If by inbred, you mean not too much bad players and bad decks, then yes, you are correct. (I'll refrain from making hadley references  ) |
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I can break chairs, therefore I am greater than you.
Team ISP: And as a finishing touch, god created The Dutch!
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Rico Suave
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« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2004, 08:33:38 am » |
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Metagame fights remind me of 2nd grade "my daddy is better than yours" fights. It's really ridiculous to watch you guys post these as an examples to the rest of the site.
On a positive note, nice read.
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Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.
-Team R&D-
-noitcelfeR maeT-
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Meddling Mike
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« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2004, 10:15:36 am » |
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Oxidize was completely insane against Slaver, much better than anything Red can come up with It seems that Gorilla Shaman is no longer red. Rack and Ruin is no slouch either, although not quite as efficient as the 1 cc oxidize, the ability to two for one AND the fact that regenerating artifacts aren't in control slaver gives R + R the nod in my mind. |
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Meddling Mike posts so loudly that nobody can get a post in edgewise.
Team TMD - If you feel that team secrecy is bad for Vintage put this in your signature
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Grand Inquisitor
Always the play, never the thing
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 1476
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2004, 11:04:21 am » |
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I liked the article, but didn't he beat his supposed worst matchup, and then lose to the deck he's supposed to beat? It may have just been his mis-play with the lotus, but still funky.
Regarding the fueding metagames, its not a question of quality, but composition. I'll be the first to admit that pound for pound, Ohio probably has a higher density of good players compared with Hadley. However, if you look at their tournament attendance, due to everyone knowing everyone and what they're playing, people are allowed to metagame appropriately and over-commit sideboard space.
Where, in Hadley (and the NE especially), I have to worry about the Peace Keeper factor
I think thats why more consistent and resilient decks such as Control Slaver, Dragon and GAT tend to win big tournaments around here. For those who want to discuss this more, lets take it back to Phil's metagame thread instead of distracting from Doug's article.
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There is not a single argument in your post. Just statements that have no meaning. - Guli
It's pretty awesome that I did that - Smmenen
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Smmenen
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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2004, 11:07:37 am » |
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Does Twister, Dragon and Landstill not show up in Columbus at all? The deck seems rather ill prepared for all 3, or am I just missing somethin? Landstill got 2nd at the March tournament and Twister is Draw7 the deck I built from scratch - I renamed it back to Draw7 - and if you'll notice it has consistently been in the top8. Steve |
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Hi-Val
Attractive and Successful
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 1941
Reinforcing your negative body image
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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2004, 11:17:06 am » |
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Yeah, I placed second with Landstill last time in the tournament.
All I have to say on the topic of metagames is that the full-proxy environment really lets the good players shine. People with no business taking home wins just because they are powered in a field of budget get eliminated. This is what Jailhouse Martha calls a Good Thing. When good players such as JP, Steve, Kevin (and myself : ) ) get behind decks, often it is playskill that wins the games, not just the deck itself.
Also, why all the hate on Columbus lately? It's the shining beacon of proxy tournaments! If you think you can do better, why not take a drive out here, and I mean that in the most friendly way. Us midwesterners take a voyage every now and then to go to DC and Waterbury. Might do some of you East-coasters good to see soybean fields and meet some of the other regional players!
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Team Meandeck: VOTE RON PAUL KILL YOUR PARENTS MAKE GOLD ILLEGAL Doug was really attractive to me. |
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Eastman
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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2004, 03:11:19 pm » |
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Metagame fights remind me of 2nd grade "my daddy is better than yours" fights. It's really ridiculous to watch you guys post these as an examples to the rest of the site.
On a positive note, nice read. I didn't mention my local meta and made no comparison. Do a quick search and you'll notice that I don't bring up our tournament results in deck discussions or even write tournament reports unless I make the finals (several Hadleys in a row I've t4'd and written no report) because I realize the specific and unrepresentative nature of our tournaments. I was only trying to point out that this is the case for Columbus as well, and that those results should be taken in appropriate stride, as it is obvious that they haven't been. Outside of intentionally humorous threads where I and others joke about actual fights between our team's members, I have made no comparison between these tournaments. When I discuss (or malign) a tournaments results, it is not meant to be in direct comparison to Hadley, it is meant to put results in perspective. Your disdain, however, is duly noted. |
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kirdape3
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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2004, 03:37:34 pm » |
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You do realize though that my boarding against Slaver was in error, although Wonder still maintains strategy superiority over most of the Man Plan. Touch is crazy against Welder, and if he hits a Pentavus for some reason then that's really good times as well.
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WRONG! CONAN, WHAT IS BEST IN LIFE?!
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women.
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Hi-Val
Attractive and Successful
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 1941
Reinforcing your negative body image
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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2004, 04:05:33 pm » |
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The Oxidize plan worked well enough for me. The Touches are tits, but often end up being just too many cards to side in.
I wouldn't have written a tournament report because of my ninth place showing except that it was such a fun and bizarre deck to play. That, and I really like seeing my name on the interweb.
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Team Meandeck: VOTE RON PAUL KILL YOUR PARENTS MAKE GOLD ILLEGAL Doug was really attractive to me. |
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2004, 05:05:58 pm » |
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Remember when people would suggest U/G Madness back on TMD 1.0, and Hyperion would yell at them? There hasta be irony there. What is good in one metagame may not be good in another. It is quite possible for metagame fluctuation to transform a deck from unplayable to amazing. |
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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proGaming
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« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2004, 08:25:23 pm » |
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Hello Slaver, Slaver, Tog and Hate metagame! Good Times.
Honestly, why don't more people run Landstill? It beats Slaver and the only time Hulk causes problems is if it runs 3-4 Duress MD with some other tweaks to beat the control mirror. |
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The Atog Lord
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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2004, 08:29:53 pm » |
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Honestly, why don't more people run Landstill? It beats Slaver I don't know about the Workshop Slaver match, but I do know that Control Slaver usually beats Landstill. |
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The Academy: If I'm not dead, I have a Dragonlord Dromoka coming in 4 turns
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jpmeyer
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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2004, 08:30:33 pm » |
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Because Landstill loses to good players.
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Team Meandeck: "As much as I am a clueless, credit-stealing, cheating homo I do think we would do well to consider the current stage of the Vintage community." -Smmenen
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Dr. Sylvan
TMD Oracle and Uber-Melvin
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 1973
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« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2004, 09:04:53 pm » |
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Because Landstill loses to good players. Finally someone said it. I feel so liberated. Maybe someone said it before in one of the infinite Landstill threads, but For Serious, people, that deck is not the best thing to do with your Mana Drains by a longshot. If you're particularly good with it, that's alright, but otherwise just ride the pure power of the Psychatog / Pentavus / Exalted Angel to a higher finish. |
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Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Adepts
Basic User
Posts: 2297
King of the Jews!
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« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2004, 09:49:51 pm » |
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Remember when people would suggest U/G Madness back on TMD 1.0, and Hyperion would yell at them? Remember when those decks also tried to run Intuition and Roars? Remember when people didn't know how to truly innovate and kept running sacred cows like Bazaar and could only say "bazzar is too br0ken, u hafta run iit"? Remember when the suggested versions were absolute crap? Because I sure do. |
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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Smmenen
Guest
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« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2004, 12:34:43 am » |
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Hello Slaver, Slaver, Tog and Hate metagame! Good Times.
Honestly, why don't more people run Landstill? It beats Slaver and the only time Hulk causes problems is if it runs 3-4 Duress MD with some other tweaks to beat the control mirror. I beat landstill in the finals of March tournament - we had 28 players. You can read Doug's previous report for the details. Basically, Meandeck super tech from our SB pwns landstill: Mogg Salvage - which is played in addition to Rack and Ruins to destroy Disk. Also, memnarch is very good against Disk. Steve |
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