Sinuous Shrine

[Alfred]

Sinuous Badge
BB
Enchantment

B, Put a card from your graveyard on the bottom of your library: Put the top card of your library in the graveyard.
1BB, Put one card from your graveyard on the bottom of your library: Return a card from your graveyard to your hand.

Sinuous Shrine
BB
Enchantment

B, Put a card from your graveyard on the bottom of your library: Put the top card of your library in the graveyard.
1BB, Put two cards from your graveyard on the bottom of your library: Return a card from your graveyard to your hand.

[Ephraim]

The two abilities seem unrelated. I'm not sure why they should both appear on the same card. Also, a badge doesn't seem much like a global enchantment. More of a local enchantment or an artifact. I think this should be a global enchantment, but I'm not really sure what it should be called.

[Alfred]

The two abilities do have a lot of synergy with one another. Think about it, you pay black to put crappy cards on the bottom of your library, and hopefully get a good card in the grave, which you then can put into your hand, it's like a semi-tutor. It also has the function of allowing you to reuse cards in your hand, but in order to do so, you must keep your graveyard relatively full. As for the name, I think it sounds pretty cool. Sinew is muscle or ligaments (sp?), and sinuous can mean a complex weave. A badge of tangled muscle sounds very black and flavorful and sort of like an enchanted trinket that you can manipulate.

[mouth]

sin·u·ous
adj.
1. Characterized by many curves or turns; winding: a sinuous stream.
2. Characterized by supple and lithe movements: the sinuous grace of a dancer.
3. Not direct; devious.
4. Sinuate: a sinuous leaf.

I was assuming you meant 3, or possibly 4. Sinuous has nothing to do with sinews.

[Ephraim]

I suppose when you put it that way, it's more of really bad card drawing. Since you never actually increase the number of cards in your graveyard with this, you're leaving to chance the stuff you'll actually put in the graveyard and you're still relying on other processes putting fuel in there, in case you do get something worth returning to your hand. And why a badge? Why not a shrine or an altar made of tangled muscles? Although those things are artifacts sometimes too, they definitely don't have the feel of something one of your critters ought to be carrying around with it.

[Alfred]

@Ephraim:

The card is actually much better than you give it credit for. Think about it, return a time walk eot? You got it, and you get to use it again and again. Creatures giving you problems? Swords to plowshares a few of them. The only commitment that you need is to keep a full graveyard, which can be accomplished pretty easily. For a reusable regrowth, I think it's pretty balanced if you ask me.

As for the second idea, I like it:

new name:

Sinuous Shrine

[Ephraim]

My favourite deck is an Oversold Cemetery deck - I understand the degree of commitment it takes to keeping a full graveyard. It's not as easy as it sounds, especially with people playing Withered Wretch, Tormod's Crypt, or even Carrion Beetles. And yes - I recognize the power of recursion, but this card doesn't just require a full graveyard. It requires one that is filling constantly, at a rapid rate. To recur a single card every turn, you need to dump that card and two others into the 'yard. If you can do that, then yes, it's decent recursion.

[Alfred]

Should I change it to:

1BB, Put a card from your graveyard on the bottom of your library: return a card from your graveyard to your hand.

?????

I would like to get a second opinion from someone if anyone would mind.

[Matt]

I like this card.

[Ephraim]

Or, you could keep the cost of the second effect the same and change the cost of the first effect so that it doesn't require you to put a card from the 'yard to the bottom of your library. Then, this becomes {B}{B}{B}: Return target card from your graveyard to your hand. That is very expensive, so I have no problem with it. If there are other uses for this, so be it. It still feels random enough that it will be difficult to abuse.

[Alfred]

Thanks matt. I was wondering if it should be changed or just go with the status quo.

[twinky]

Isn't the second ability a little unbalanced? For 1BB you're getting three cards back from the grave – one into your hand, and two into your deck where they can be tutored out.

I don't really see "put two cards from your graveyard on the bottom of your library" as a cost.

[Alfred]

The thing about this card is that it IS a good card, except it has a heavy requirement to keep it going. Every time you use it's second ability, you lose three cards in your graveyard, making it hard to maintain a full enough grave. If, on the other hand you use cards that fill your grave up, i.e. mental note etc. you get a good tutoring/card advantage engine.

Putting cards on the bottom of your libarary isn't that great. Personally, I think that most decks would be able to abuse cards in their graveyard better than cards that are in their library i.e. Yawg's Win, reanimators etc.

[twinky]

Yes, that's true, but I don't see putting cards at the bottom of your library as a cost – I think that should be on the effect side of the colon.

[Alfred]

Umm, think about it this way:

You have one card in your graveyard, you pay the cost associated with the second ability and you return a card to your hand. The card then looks for the other cards in your graveyard and finds there aren't any. You can then repeat this as many times as you want to.

[Jacob Orlove]

I see what the first ability is supposed to accomplish, but is it really necessary? I think the card would be just as cool with only the second ability.

[Alfred]

24 hour clock.

[Jacob Orlove]

Where is the current wording post, again? It needs to be in bold.

[Matt]

Closed and added.[/color]